HMS Unicorn by JohnB40 - Corel 1:75 Scale

[JohnB40]

Greetings to all,

I decided to start a build log for my current  work on Corel's HMS Unicorn. I started this kit a long time ago,nearly completing the hull planking before taking a hiatus. After retiring and moving to a house with a small work area I started on the project again. This was also spurred on by finding this forum and reading the posts of others like Ian and Mike,who worked their way through the problems found with this kit,which was one of the reasons work ceased.

 

 

I have now finished the hull and gun deck planking.

 

 

The rudder.

 

.

 

 I am working on the transom and galleries.

 

 

 Next the gallery roofs and bottoms need to be finished.

 

I will post the progress of the build in more detail from this point forward.

 

John

 

 

 

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi John, looks really great so far.  Am glad to see that you posted a build log on here.  Look forward to following your progress!

[Griffon]

Hello John,

                        A really nice ship ! I'll keep an eye on your progress..the other on Mike and Ian build log !

[ianmajor]

Hello John,

 

Excellent to see your Unicorn in a build log. It looks lovely.

 

There is definitely a ship theme in your room, with the picture on the wall plus the Unicorn is sat on the display case of another ship. I can't find a reference to this other ship model. What are its details? Do tell us about the pictures as well.

[JohnB40]

Hi Ian,,

 

The picture you asked about is actually one of a few post cards I bought at Bucklers Hard,Hants,which I visited on one of my trips home to Poole in the early 90's. I framed them when I returned to the States. It is well worth a visit if you have never been there,it has a really nice small museum. HMS Agamemnon was built there.

 

Titled "British Frigate In Pursuit  Of French Cutter In The Napoleonic Wars" by Thomas Buttersworth 1868 - 1842

 

 

This is one Bucklers Hard Itself,the Shipwrights and families lived in the row houses which were in two rows facing each other across the open area where timber and materials were stored The ways were on the river bank by the 3 small trees. Adams the Master Shipwright lived in the last house by the river.

 

 

As for the other models built,I have two left out of the five I have built. Two I gave to good friends (Golden Hind & Swift) and another (Le Hussard) to my neighbor,a doctor as thanks for saving my life a couple of years ago.

 

The ones I have left are..

 

Halifax. 1:35 Scale by Robbe..

 

Armed Launch 1803 1:17 Scale by Panart

 

My wife is very understanding regarding my decor......The .hanging picture is a framed tea towel (also from B.H. gift store)

 

I don't know how to add these models to my profile.

 

Regards John

 

[ianmajor]

John,

 

Thank you for putting the information together. You appear to have a very pleasant nautical themed room there with some very interesting pictures.

 

The models also reveal a very skilled (and generous) model maker. I look forward to developments on your Unicorn.

[Holty]

Beautiful planking on the Unicorn and very nice finish

[Ian B]

I just love the armed launch, great detail and something a little different,, and that Unicorn is going to be stunning...more inspiration for me

 

My wife is also OK about the décor, I have been displaying my efforts right from day one, as people visit they can see the progress-- or not! LOL  my wall pictures (hand coloured prints from 1800 found in a junk shop) and even the side board are all contemporary or within 10 or so years of the Bounty..

 

 

[Ian B]

I'll have to get a display case when its finished..

[Landlubber Mike]

John and Ian B, very nice models and artwork.  I don't think my wife is as understanding about the decor.  She kept asking me where I would put my 26" Badger - wait until she finds out that my next models are close to 50% bigger 

[ianmajor]

John,

 

I see in your comments in Mike's Unicorn log that you are thinking about adding a false deck layer to raise the quarter deck level but only as far as the front of the Great Cabin (if I understand correctly). I also considered this. The only reason that I didn't was that I had already cut the port holes for the cannon on that deck so a false deck would have made them too low.

 

If you are going to do this I think it would be worth considering extending the leading edge of the false deck to the waist area where the deck would have stepped down on the actual ship. The challenge with this approach is to hide the leading edge of the original deck. The bulwarks would need to be raised in height but this is OK since the Chapman plan shows the Unicorn with open bulwarks. An added rail would be spot on.

 

I think a difficulty with the false deck leading edge being at the front of the Great Cabin is that it will occur in the midst of deck furniture such as the wheel.

[JohnB40]

Greetings to all,

 

Back working on the Unicorn and I have just about finished the stern. I ended up rejecting the strange white metal blobs  topped with melted crowns that came with the kit as the gallery roofs.There was no way I could see how they could be made to work....The opposite sides were even different shapes and sizes. I made new ones as best I could........

 

 

The bottom of the galleries were then fitted,completing the gallery/transom area of the stern. ...

 

 

 

Also thanks to viewing Ian's latest fine metal working skills I made a spectacle plate for the rudder. I don't have Ian's patience,so luckily I found some 1mm link chain on ebay.

 

 

 

 

As I said in a previous post I intend to use a raised false deck from the lockers to just about where #15 bulkhead is,to a height of where the cabin ceiling would be in relation to the the windows (about 4mm). Ian discussed this earlier and thought it would interfere with the deck furniture,I have thought about it and think I can make it work . I will place the skylight on the false deck and move the ships wheel rearward to just in front of the false deck,where the pump is in the plans. The pump and shot holder can be placed on another part of the deck. There would still be room to work the rear quarter deck guns and their tackle. I will have to do a mock-up with the deck temporarily in place to see how it looks. I could even go a little higher with the deck to near the height of the bulwarks and incorporate a covered tiller........ Failing this I will have to raise the whole quarter deck which seems to open up another massive sized can of worms..........I want to send this ship down river to the Ordnance Dock.

 

John

[ianmajor]

John,

 

Your galleries are fabulous. I am rather jealous of them.  They complement a very nicely made hull.

 

You also have a good way to make the spectacle plate. A very neat piece of work.

 

BTW - it is not patience that keeps me going - just being a half wit that does it.  

Edited July 14, 2014 by ianmajor

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi John, very nice work on the galleries.  They came out very nicely and look much better than the cast metal parts.

 

I'll be very interested to follow your work on installing the false deck.  I haven't quite figured out how, and in what way, I want to raise/re-angle the quarterdeck on my build.  Since I'm planning on avoiding paint but will likely stain the bulwarks and cannon carriages red, I'm worried that the color on the walnut (bulwark planks and cannon carriages) won't match the color on the plywood uprights that serve as support for the quarterdeck frames -- so I will have to remove them anyhow.  What I'm thinking I'll do is install the bulkheads as per the plans, add the first planking, then remove the uprights and replace them with walnut uprights to serve as the new supports.  I can build the walnut uprights to the proper height to raise the quarterdeck level, which hopefully should do the trick.  

 

If you're interested, I spent some time studying the Chapman plans and came up with new upper deck and quarterdeck lines at the post below.  The only modification I would probably make to my diagram is to run the line of the two decks closer to the Corel plans from about the last gunport to bulkhead 16 -- essentially to keep the upward sweep of the decks as you move towards the stern. 

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6223-hms-unicorn-by-landlubber-mike-corel-scale-175-1748-1771/?p=202411

[petervisser]

Hi John,

 

What a great Unicorn you are building. I really like the way you finished the hull. It reminds me of an Admiralty model.

 

I will follow along with your log as it offers lots of great lessons.

 

Peter

[JohnB40]

Mike,

 

You Idea for raising the quarterdeck using the walnut uprights after the first planking will work very well. You will have to be careful once you remove the plywood uprights as the single planked bulwarks will not have any additional support until the outer hull and inner bulwark planks are in place and as such will be susceptible to damage from handling. In fact I would think about waiting to cut out off the ply uprights until after you have second planked the area above the gunports,which will also give you a reference point of where the planks should be fitted from

 

As to painting,I have always painted the bulwarks red in all my models,especially the lower decks,as I think it makes them stand out as opposed to being a nondescript background. The gun carriages are another matter which I have been mulling over for about a year now and have still yet to make a decision on,I am leaning towards leaving the in the natural walnut.

 

John

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi John, you're right that I should wait until the second planking is on.  Things will be fairly flimsy until then.  I'll probably pre-cut the bulkhead uprights to make removal easier.

 

I'm a little torn as to whether to color the bulwarks or not.  A lot of the models in the NMM have red painted bulwarks, which I think looks very nice.  I have a couple of stains from General Finishes that look pretty nice on walnut - I believe they are Cinnamon and Empire Red.  On the other hand, I'm hoping to have as few colors as possible - right now I'm looking at pear, ebonized pear, and boxwood, so red would be a fourth color to add to the mix.  Another option I've considered is using walnut for the carriages and deck items, and oiling it.  I kinda like the look of darker deck items (like the hatch coamings) against a lighter deck.  

 

One thing I'm really hoping to avoid is scratching the gun carriages out of a new wood just for consistency sake - so, I'd probably want the deck items and/or inner bulwark planking to be consistent with whatever I did for gun carriages.

 

That's a really nice picture.  The way the stern looks, it could very well be the Unicorn with those windows

[JohnB40]

Hi Ian and Mike,

 

I have been sat at my work table for quite a while trying different crude mock-ups on the alteration to the quarter deck on my Unicorn....Now my brain is pudding. The only way that looks pleasing to the eye by having the correct height in relation to the windows/great cabin ceiling is to cut the quarter deck as suggested,(by the main mast as in Ian's waist mod) and raise the height of it off the gun deck,sweeping even higher at the stern.

I have a couple of questions I hope you both can help me with. I know you have discussed the heights of the fore and quarter decks in one post,but I can't seem to find it.

I was reading your posts Ian,and you made a reference to not being able to construct the step up from the gangways to the quarter deck (and if there is one,the foredeck)? ....

 

What height of such a step-up do you think would be? 

 

How high would you estimate the quarter deck should be off the gun deck to be in the models scale of 1:75?

I am measuring this at just under 6' in Corel's plans,is this about right?

 

I am working on the assumption that the above scale is 4mm to 1ft,is this correct?

 

How high would you think the foredeck would be off the gun deck?

 

I saw on one of latest posts on Mike's log the picture of the Lowestoft...I think this is really close to how I think the Unicorn would look,especially the upper works with the open bulwarks and quarter deck gun port framing. Maybe the Lyme is closer,but with old my eyes I can't make out much,if any detail in the plans Mike supplied. If there were solid bulwarks,I think they would still be topped with a railing

I also believe the Unicorn would have had the tiller on the quarter deck as shown on the second side elevation drawing in Mikes post # 149.

 

John

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi John,

 

It's a bit late here, but I saw your post and wanted to respond.  Are you thinking of raising the quarterdeck at the stern so that the line of the upper deck/great cabin would flow into the stern windows?  I was thinking of taking a different approach outlined in the link below where the front section of the quarterdeck would be raised, and the aft end at the same level, or perhaps, slightly lowered:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6223-hms-unicorn-by-landlubber-mike-corel-scale-175-1748-1771/?p=202411

 

Here is a link to Ian's log where he sketched out a similar modification:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/515-hms-unicorn-by-ianmajor-corel-scale-175-1748-to-1771/?p=202353

 

I think the difference, at least in my sketch, is that I planned on the windows being lower on the transom.  I was thinking about reducing the height of the windows like you did, but rather than block out the lower section of the windows, I would just essentially cut that bottom section off and move the windows down into the blocked out section (hopefully that makes sense).  The alternative would be to take Ian's approach on blocking out the top of the windows, which you can see here:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/515-hms-unicorn-by-ianmajor-corel-scale-175-1748-to-1771/?p=205888

 

I hate to suggest this, but would it be easier (or at least more appropriate) to move the windows down, rather than try to reorient the quarterdeck?  You would lose the band on the counter with the name of the ship, but you could always move that down as well for a 2-step counter like in your painting above?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[ianmajor]

John,

 

I have taken a couple of extracts from the Chapman diagram along with the English feet (E) scale bar (he also has French (F) and Stockholm (S) feet scale bars ). I have marked the quarter deck level with red arrows, the foredeck with green and the upper deck levels with blue arrows. The quarter deck level is clearly marked on the plan but the fore deck level isn't.

 

Using the scale bar I measured the distance between decks as 7ft 6inches on this diagram. As you say 1:75 scale is 4.064mm to the foot so this gives a scale distance of 30.5mm.  Now on my Unicorn my deck height is 26mm so if I were to be adding a false deck this would be a lift of 4.5mm.  

 

 

From the links that Mike supplied you will see that our discussions pointed to the fact that the Corel plan has the decks sweeping upwards towards the rear whereas the Chapman plan shows them remaining fairly level. So - IMHO - the false deck would be about 4 to 5mm above the original deck at the leading edge dropping to the same level at the rear. 

 

Another point in our discussions is that you will see that the Chapman plan has only solid bulwarks on the quarter deck. Now if you measure the height of the bulwark at the forward end it is only about 2ft high. So almost certainly there was an open rail above this. The height of this rail above the bulwark would decrease towards the rear. The supports for this rail would also have rigging mountings for any guns on the quarter deck.

 

For the step up from the waist I think this photo shows what to aim for. I borrowed it from Dan Vadas' Vulture log (I hope he doesn't mind  )

 

 

The detail on how he made his gangway can be see here http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/230-hms-vulture-by-dan-vadas-1776-148-scale-16-gun-swan-class-sloop-from-tffm-plans/?p=135946

  

His full log starts here  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/230-hms-vulture-by-dan-vadas-1776-148-scale-16-gun-swan-class-sloop-from-tffm-plans/

 

The problem with viewing Dan's log is that I look at his work, then my efforts and then weep.     

 

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Ian for that info.  Interestingly, I came up with a height of 30mm between the two decks as well but by the lazy way in readjusting items on the Corel plans to fit Chapman and then measuring the distance.  Amazing that I got as close as I did.

 

That step up is very nice!

[JohnB40]

Hi Ian & Mike,

 

Thank you for your feedback and information,which cleared a path to see the way forward.

 

Mike,I'm afraid it is passed the point for alternating the position of the transom/galleries on the hull,they are epoxied in place. I would end up having to re plank the whole stern and rear upper works of the hull.

 

The answer lies in raising the quarter deck,so that it is 30mm between the decks...This will give me a rise of 5mm from its present height at the waist. I will still have to sweep the aft end of the deck up,but this will raise it to where the cabin ceiling would be without looking odd. This will also shorten the height of the solid bulwarks,so all the quarter deck gun portholes will end up being close to semi circles. I will cap this with a uprights and railings extending all the way aft to the transom. This will also give the appearance of lowering the windows in relation to the top of hull.

 

I will use Dan Vidas' amazing construction of the gangways on his Vulture as an example for finishing the quarter deck step up and gangways.

 

I also would like to cut bulkhead #16 down in height so the quarter deck runs straight to bulkhead #17,eliminating the flag lockers. I will have to see if this is possible as I want to place the tiller and tackle in view on the quarter deck.

 

Thanks for talking me off the ledge.....This model might not end up exactly historically accurate but it will be a lot better than Corel's vision of it.

 

John

[JohnB40]

Greetings to all,

 

Before any further work on the hull I want to drill the hole for the bowsprit to pass through the forecastle/beak head deck. I should have thought about it and addressed this like Mike did at the bulkhead assembly stage. Once again it seems that every different plan or ship model I look at has a different location shown. Below is a rough side elevation of the three possibilities I have seen...

 

Corel's plans appear to place it as in #1

Chapman's plans seem to point to both #2 and # 3,I find it hard to tell (maybe in the middle?)

 

 

Any opinions of where the bowsprit should be in relation to the vertical front of the forecastle and the bow deck on the Unicorn or any other beak head frigate would be appreciated.

 

Thanks again for the schedules you emailed Ian. I'm glad the unicorn now  has its defense mechanism back in place.

 

John

[ianmajor]

John,

 

I am going to offer a view on the bowsprit that is totally unhelpful!

 

I believe the bowsprit as per Corel and Chapman are more or less in the same position. (What?!!!)   The difference is in the location of that first bulkhead. If you measure up the Corel plan versus the Chapman plan, Corel has it further back (it really cramps the foredeck). If you take your diagram 1 and draw the bulk head a couple of scale feet further forward you will end up with diagram 2(ish). In one of my discussions with Mike I put up a set of dimensions around this bulkhead - but I'm blowed if I can remember where I put them.

 

I think the best course is to aim for the Corel alingment or else the bowsprit will probably sit too high.

[ianmajor]

John,

 

Found it. Between the rows of "+"s is the item.

 

**************************************************************************

 

 

Below are 2 images, one each of the Corel and Chapman plan with included scale bar. I measured  rearwards in scale feet using as a datum the front vertical face of (what is in the model) bulkhead 1. I got the following results (all in feet):

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

............................................................. Chapman .... Corel

............................................................. ======== ... =====

Length to leading edge of port 1 ............... 2.5 .............. None

................ do ..................... 2 .............. 11.75 ............13.25

................ do ..................... 3 .............. 20.5 ............. 22.5

................ do ..................... 4 .............. 29.75 ........... 31.5

 

Length to centre line of fore mast .............. 9.0 ............11.6

Length to extreme rear of fore bulwark...... 23.75 ......... 24.75

Length to front of channel ........................ 6.75 ......... 11.0

Length of fore channel ............................ 19.75 ......... 22.25

 

Distance between centres of ports .............. 9.0 ........... 9.0

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The distance between the ports matches but everything else on the Corel plan looks to be about 2 scale feet out. Also comparing the position of the fore channel it extends back further in to the waist area than Chapman. So I measured forward from bulkhead 1 and this gave:

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Length to front of hull planking ............. 4.5 ............. 6.75

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This suggests bulkhead 1 on the Coral plan is too far back by a scale 2.25 ft. (about 9mm). That would be a big change.

 

However, the foremast could be easily moved forward by 2 scale feet (about 8mm) which would pull the fore channels with it to clear the waist area. The foredeck is very cramped behind the foremast so this move would help improve that. This could make the area look too small in front of the fore mast though. 

 

 

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hope this makes sense.

 

I am off for a week now but if anything is not clear I am sure Mike will advise.

 

(Edit to correct images)

 

 

Edited July 23, 2014 by ianmajor

[JohnB40]

Thanks Ian, It is so obvious once it is pointed out

 

John

[Landlubber Mike]

John, sorry to have not seen your post until now.  For some reason the notifications function for new posts on builds I'm following doesn't work.

 

I'm actually even sorrier for seeing your post now, as this brings up a traumatic memory of when I realized the discrepancy one late evening a few weeks ago.  Ian had pointed it out, but I think I didn't fully appreciate what he was getting at at the time.  But, this was particularly highlighted when I realized by trying to place the keel and bowsprit on the two main plans that the plans are not consistent and that there was a question of the bowsprit orientation/location (though, I think Corel has the angle of the bowsprit correct).

 

The short answer is that I don't know whether the bowsprit on beakhead ships goes fully through the beakhead deck, the bulkhead, or somewhere in between, as my research from books came up empty.  Corel seems to be at diagram 2.  As Ian points out, moving the bulkhead forward would put the arrangement closer to diagram 3.  Chapman seems to have the bowsprit fully through the bulkhead as in your diagram 3, though it's hard to tell with the headrails in place.  On the other hand, if you take a look at my log at post 118 (linked below), I think the beakhead models suggest that the bowsprit is going fully through the deck as in your diagram 1.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6223-hms-unicorn-by-landlubber-mike-corel-scale-175-1748-1771/?p=208269

 

What I did was closer to your diagram 2, which even when the deck and the bulkhead are planked, the bowsprit will intersect both the deck and bulkhead.  Without really thinking that Corel could be incorrect (shame on me), I lined up the keel with one of the plans, lined up the bowsprit, drew a line into the keel and noted its intersection, and shaved off that corner on the keel.  From a structural standpoint, I wonder if that configuration would have been very stable.  

 

I probably have a few more options than you do given where I am with the build, but I'll let you know what I'm thinking.  Of course, I'm a bit stuck now that I glued on the stem extension onto which the bowsprit rests.  If diagram 3 is the right answer, I can build a new bulkhead one to push the forecastle a little more forward for consistency with Chapman as Ian points out, and I can drop the beakhead deck a bit so that the bowsprit sits fully above it where it enters the new bulkhead.  If diagram 1 is correct, then adding a new forward bulkhead is probably not an option and I don't think I can move the deck higher or bowspirit forward, so I'm probably out of luck.  

 

Of course, all this discussion is moot if I decide to build the Lyme, which has a rounded bow    In any event, I should have the Lyme plans in next week, and hopefully the bowsprit location will be clear on the plans.  I'll pass that info along as soon as I get it.  By the way, for what it's worth, I was planning on locating the fore mast a bit forward of where it is on the Corel plans to get closer to Chapman.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[JohnB40]

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for your input on the bowsprit. I also read Ian's post,but like you didn't understand the implications of it until I started work in the stem area. I really don't have any choice on the placement of the bowsprit.... As Ian pointed out anything other than #1 will make the 'bowsprit sit too high'. To change that would mean altering the 30 degree angle,which would make it look odd. Thank you for the pictures of the models,as I can see in them,especially the second and third which do seem to have the bowsprit positioned going through the deck just before the bulkhead. 

 

I really like how the railings and quarter deck gun positions are constructed on second frigate in your post #118,I think this will be the style I will use. In fact I will use this also as a pattern on how to construct the quarter deck and forecastle,I will add gangways. Do you know the name and time period of this frigate?

 

I have shifted the height of the quarter deck up and now the deck is about right in relation to the great cabin. I have ordered some 1/16" ply which I will use for the new fore and quarter decks. In the mean time I will get on with the ordnance.

 

I also going to shift the foremast forward.

 

I am looking forward to your comments and ideas when you have had time to review the Lyme plans.....I think we will all end up with something resembling His Majesty's Frigate "Unilyme"

 

John

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi John,

 

To add to the confusion, Le debutant (first link below) and Ollyweb (second link below) built the kit with the bowsprit following diagram 1, while the gentleman who scratch built the Unicorn (third link below) has the bowsprit following diagram 3:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6223-hms-unicorn-by-landlubber-mike-corel-scale-175-1748-1771/?p=180937

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4326-unicorn-by-ollyweb-corel-upgrade/?p=222408

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6223-hms-unicorn-by-landlubber-mike-corel-scale-175-1748-1771/?p=193080

 

 

Here's a link to a website that has completed models for sale.  One of the ships is the Unicorn, which is almost guaranteed to be the Corel kit (and the builder has the bowsprit following diagram 1):

 

http://www.modelships.de/Verkaufte_Schiffe/Unicorn,_Fregatte_1/Photos_Frigate_Unicorn.htm

 

 

For the three NMM models, two things to keep in mind is that they predated the Lyme class (1741, 1745 and 1710, respectively) and that the Lyme class was based on the lines of a french vessel.  Maybe the french had the bowsprit oriented into the bulkhead rather than the deck?

 

Using the NMM online plans for the Lyme and projecting a rounded bow, I think my bowsprit is in the right location and orientation.  If I decided to go with the Unicorn, I probably will build out the front bulkhead to extend the forecastle (which would push me further into diagram 3).  Extending it 9mm may be a bit much, as the beakhead deck would shrink by a third, but maybe that is appropriate.  That should be relatively easy, as all I would need to do is add plywood to the front of bulkhead 1 (which I could base off of the templates for bulkhead 1).  Then, depending on where the bowsprit should enter the bulkhead and/or deck, I could raise or lower the deck appropriately.  It will be interesting to see what the Lyme plans show, thought now that I think about it, with the rounded bow the plans might not be all that helpful.

 

Nice work on the shifting of the quarterdeck.  Look forward to seeing how it all comes out.  I also like the railings/gun positions in the second frigate as well.  Just out of curiosity, I guess that means that you wont include the portholes?

Edited July 28, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi again John.

 

I just posted some pictures of the NMM Lyme plans on my Unicorn log.  I thought you might find these two pictures helpful, as they show the quarterdeck railing.