flying_dutchman2 Posted October 4, 2019 Share #61 Posted October 4, 2019 I find this conversation between Jaager and Ab Hoving very interesting. Learning some new things. Thank you! Marcus Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab Hoving Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share #62 Posted October 4, 2019 I'm happy to take part in any discussion about shipbuilding, as long as you don't expect me to have all the answers. The contrary is true. The more I look at the subject, the less I understand. 🙂 EricWilliamMarshall 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted October 9, 2019 Share #63 Posted October 9, 2019 I've been reading several PhD dissertations from universities of Groningen and Leiden about the history of fluits and also the many wrecks that have been explored. In everyone of the papers they talk about a vessel called a 'hekboot'. Are there any plans available of this ship? Marcus Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab Hoving Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share #64 Posted October 9, 2019 A hekboot was a hybrid ship, with the lower part lend from the fluit and the upper part from a pinas. Think of it as a fluit with a transom. The combination produced a wide merchant vessel with the accommodations of a pinas, like a wide captain's cabin. The only draught there is of the type is the elementary drawing I made from data from Van Dams book "Description of the East Indian Company" (1701). I add it here, but you have to a lot of imagination to make a model out of it. druxey, mtaylor, paulsutcliffe and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted October 18, 2019 Share #65 Posted October 18, 2019 More questions. Are there any plans available for the ship modeler of the 74 gun ship William Rex? I picked up that little booklet from the Rex last time I was at the Rijksmuseum. The booklet has plans on several pages but they are rather small for me to use if I want to build that model. I have that book from the Valkenisse, 1717 - VOC Retourschip by Rob Napier. There are 4 sets of plans just none for the masts, sails and rigging. Can you recommend any books, articles, etc that show masts, sails and rigging for that type of Ship and from the Dutch 1700. After seeing the Prins Willem and the Mercurius at the Rijks and the den Ary and d'Gerechtigheid at the National Maritime museum, I just have to build a VOC Retourschip. Thanks Marcus mtaylor 1 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab Hoving Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share #66 Posted October 19, 2019 Hi Marcus, You must have a lot of time at your disposal. If I look at your plans, you could easily fill two lives with them. 🙂 There must be plans for the William Rex, but I don't have them. About ten years ago I let a group of students do calculations on the ship because I did not trust the shape. Too little volume below the waterline. From this project (it turned out I was right) there must be a report in the museum. I will ask and come back to you about this matter. As for the rigging of 18th century Eastindiamen you might be interested in a rigging plan for 160 foot retourship I reconstructed from a VOC document from the middle of the 18th century. It was published in a book about the archaeological finds of VOC ships, the Hollandia Compendium, published by the Rijksmuseum in 1992. The plans might reasonably fit the Valkenisse rigging. The oldest VOC retourship of which plans have been published was Prins Willem (1651) by my predecessor Herman Ketting. There is a book from 1979 and there are plans, but I don't know how to get them. Perhaps other members can help you out, for instance Amateur? Apart from the plans for Valkenisse (1717) I don't know of any published plans, but I do have plans made after the 1697 Resolution, after which I started a model some time ago, but never finished it. I have no recent pictures of the state it is in at the moment but I can tell you, it takes a lot of study to get even this far. Anyway, if you are interested in the plans you can have them, send me a PM. Here is a preview: I hope you know what you are looking at. As I said, your plans will take a double life-time to execute..... mtaylor, bruce d and druxey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted October 19, 2019 Share #67 Posted October 19, 2019 I have large blocks of free time.😁 Thanks for the preview and yes I am interested in the plans. Will send you a pm. Also, thanks in advance about the Rex. Marcus mtaylor 1 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopape Posted October 21, 2019 Share #68 Posted October 21, 2019 Hi Marcus, I follow your building very closely and keep my fingers crossed. The book he spoke of Ab: Herman Ketting Prince Willem I have in PDF, only in German. If you're interested I will send. I would also be interested in plans for Rex. Ab Hoving, Ondras71, druxey and 1 other 4 Quote Ve výstavbě: Pinase 1660 - 1670 Můj web : https://kopape.webnode.cz/ Dokončeno: Grosse jacht 1678 Janita 18. století Golden Hind Jadran Santa Maria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted October 21, 2019 Share #69 Posted October 21, 2019 I am keeping tags on this thread as part of my research is to find some data on dutch ships in 1677 in the hope of one day making a model of some sort. I have all of Ab’s books and was at the Rljka museum in May and stood next to the Rex. The museum was a WOW. below is a photo of the film Tobago 1677 where the Dutch fought the French resulting in 20 wrecks in the harbour. mtaylor, Ondras71, Ab Hoving and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted October 21, 2019 Share #70 Posted October 21, 2019 F22A3928-5D55-4F84-9538-539C7D95BC6B.MOV 9436584C-1750-4E50-A919-F30CE6302953.MOV druxey, EricWilliamMarshall, Ondras71 and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted October 21, 2019 Share #71 Posted October 21, 2019 Just a stunning model. mtaylor and Ab Hoving 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab Hoving Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share #72 Posted October 22, 2019 Thanks for sharing Kenny. I'm sure many people will be very glad to see all this. I hope you also enjoyed the 'special collections' with all the ship models well hidden in the basement of the museum? mtaylor and Ondras71 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab Hoving Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share #73 Posted October 22, 2019 And here is a picture of us (rigger Floris Hin and me) finishing the re-rig of the model in 2012. The model was relocated twice, once in 2007 and once in 2012. Dismasting took 2 1/2 days, rigging 4. I made a u-shaped construction to take off the masts with all its rope work and sails together, with the shrouds temporarily attached to the legs of the U and the mast tightly connected to the middle piece. Those were the days... Ondras71, EricWilliamMarshall, GrandpaPhil and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_dutchman2 Posted October 22, 2019 Share #74 Posted October 22, 2019 12 hours ago, Ab Hoving said: Those were the days... Those are days some of us can only dream of. Marcus mtaylor 1 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kenny Posted October 22, 2019 Share #75 Posted October 22, 2019 Ab here are the picture taken in the basement. As you know the light is not very good which is reflected in the quality of the photographs. It is. Stunning display Best regards Kevin 6AEF2492-3719-4DC4-B6D1-5E1ECE640C51.MOV 071A862F-2A1B-4F15-B527-501B1E38E040.MOV 99CD2056-D9B8-4CB7-8B0A-9D2EAF9407B9.MOV 34AC2237-DD00-404A-A9F7-A69F4B764752.MOV 6A119B30-9777-4DFE-A8A5-400F8DC3FAB0.MOV 7BDB9052-7213-4C15-83C6-E661216D5848.MOV GrandpaPhil, Ondras71, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondras71 Posted October 22, 2019 Share #76 Posted October 22, 2019 Very important information about Dutch ships !! I also draw information from the book Prins Willem (1651). O. mtaylor 1 Quote Ondras. Done : President - https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=177&t=90230 Under construction : Roter Lowe - https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=177&t=114576 Member of the organizing club - https://wchs-c-2023.klom-admiral.cz/en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drazen Posted November 29, 2019 Share #77 Posted November 29, 2019 Ab, welcome here to the MSW. I am soooooo glad to meet you here! I didn't know about it till today I occasional found a link when searching for some information in the internet. All thet we are talking per emails etc. you can now find/follow in my build log on De Zeven Provincien: ... and here the link to the build of Royal Carolinf my friend Mile Bijelić did: Have fun! Drazen mtaylor 1 Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ab Hoving Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share #78 Posted November 30, 2019 Beautiful Drazen, you both are master model builders! Ab Ondras71 and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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