Mark P

Greetings gentlemen;
 
I have a feeling that the red paint used was actually red lead,  which has some anti-bacterial,  or anti-fungal properties,  and is still often used as a primer for wooden boats.  This paint is,  I believe,  more hard-wearing than one based on red-ochre.  However,  this is based on a feeling that I read this somewhere.  I will check up on this and see if I can find something more concrete than a feeling.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Yes.  Wait until the planks are cool and dry before gluing in place.  Clamp hot, glue dry.

Hello Les here. I agree with jbshan. For those of you who don't want to build a steamer unit, here's what I did. I purchased a 4 foot piece of plumbing pipe available at any home or plumbing store. I ripped it in half length ways to create a half pipe. Purchase 2, 4" end caps and glue on. Now you can fill with boiling water or whatever witches brew you can come up with to soak your planking. Note the harder the wood the longer the soaking time. This is when you can form the planks into any jigs you have made.  Be aware that wood will shrink when drying. Hope this helps.

Like John, I clove hitch down to 1/96 scale. I prefer the way the ratlines hang when tied with a clove hitch. If you use an overhand knot, the line on one side of the knot hangs nicely, but on the other side, it starts with an upward wave.
 
Below 1/96, I would probably just consider gluing. But then, I've never built anything with ratlines smaller than 1/96.
 
Clare

Hi Jon;
 
The TFFM books are a very good source of detailed descriptions of building techniques,  and give information which is clearly explained and illustrated.  This is valuable,  because contemporary sources contain few illustrations,  and are generally written in a hard-to-understand-now fashion.  I would certainly recommend obtaining what you can of these,  depending upon the type of vessel you are interested in. 
 
Another source of information,  again depending upon the type of vessel,  is the number of original contracts which survive for vessels built for the Royal Navy by merchant shipbuilders.  These exist from the later 17th century onwards,  and can be obtained from the NMM. Detailed information concerning the size of scarph joints,  and all scantlings,  is normally contained within these.
 
The down-side of these is the sometimes difficult to interpret phrasing,  and the lack of illustrations.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Hi Jon;
 
The TFFM books are a very good source of detailed descriptions of building techniques,  and give information which is clearly explained and illustrated.  This is valuable,  because contemporary sources contain few illustrations,  and are generally written in a hard-to-understand-now fashion.  I would certainly recommend obtaining what you can of these,  depending upon the type of vessel you are interested in. 
 
Another source of information,  again depending upon the type of vessel,  is the number of original contracts which survive for vessels built for the Royal Navy by merchant shipbuilders.  These exist from the later 17th century onwards,  and can be obtained from the NMM. Detailed information concerning the size of scarph joints,  and all scantlings,  is normally contained within these.
 
The down-side of these is the sometimes difficult to interpret phrasing,  and the lack of illustrations.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Hi Jon;
 
The TFFM books are a very good source of detailed descriptions of building techniques,  and give information which is clearly explained and illustrated.  This is valuable,  because contemporary sources contain few illustrations,  and are generally written in a hard-to-understand-now fashion.  I would certainly recommend obtaining what you can of these,  depending upon the type of vessel you are interested in. 
 
Another source of information,  again depending upon the type of vessel,  is the number of original contracts which survive for vessels built for the Royal Navy by merchant shipbuilders.  These exist from the later 17th century onwards,  and can be obtained from the NMM. Detailed information concerning the size of scarph joints,  and all scantlings,  is normally contained within these.
 
The down-side of these is the sometimes difficult to interpret phrasing,  and the lack of illustrations.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Every scratch-built framed model is frightening when you look at the huge overall project. Just focus on one piece at a time in bite-sizes and, after a while, you will have eaten the whole elephant.

Thanks Druxey;
 
Having seen your post,  I had a look,  and there are some interesting news articles about it on line.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Thanks Druxey;
 
Having seen your post,  I had a look,  and there are some interesting news articles about it on line.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Thanks Druxey;
 
Having seen your post,  I had a look,  and there are some interesting news articles about it on line.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Thanks Druxey;
 
Having seen your post,  I had a look,  and there are some interesting news articles about it on line.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

The news was announced today that HMS Terror has been found in a remote bay near Nunavit. Apparently the wreck is in 'pristine' condition.

Dave, I think a bending chart would be a great addition.  I am surprised so many builders use swiss pear rather than natural pear.  IMHO the color is too pink and the working characteristics are not as nice.

Extracts from A Commissioner's Note Book, Annis 1691-1694
 
 
Laughton, J.K., W.G. (William G.) Perrin, C. Lloyd, and N.A.M. Rodger. 1912. The Naval Miscellany Vol. II. Publications of the Navy Records Society. [London] : Printed for the Navy Records Society. http://archive.org/details/navalmiscellany02laug.
 
From the introduction offered in the volume:
 
Several years ago the late Sir Leopold McClintock was so good as to lend me, for the use of the Society, a couple of small MS. books which he had picked up in a second-hand book-shop. They had no pedigree, but their origin is clear enough. They are rather thin octavos, bound in smooth red morocco, richly gilt on sides and backs, and with gilt edges, in the style commonly adopted by the Admiralty throughout the eighteenth century, and which, in itself, would suggest that they belonged to some official connected with the Admiralty were it not that the contents show beyond any practical doubt, that they must have belonged to a commissioner of the navy, in the early nineties of the seventeenth century ; very probably to the comptroller, who at that date was Sir Richard Haddock.
 
The second part is my focus in this post - it “gives, from the most approved source, the explanation of a few terms which are of frequent occurrence in the lists of ships and comments on their efficiency all through the eighteenth century, but especially in the early part of it”
 
 
So, if interested, here is the Explanation of Dockyard Terms (starts on page 146 of the reference).
 
An Explanation of the Terms of Distinction commonly used in the Navy, of Ordinary Repairs, Extra Repairs, and Rebuilding.
 
Abstract
 
[Ordinary Repair is the annual caulking, tarring, rozining and paying sides and decks, masts also and yards ; palpable defects are made good. Extra Repair is more thorough ; decayed planks, &c., are renewed ; all artificers' work is seen to, and the whole carefully overhauled. Rebuilding consists of virtually pulling the ship to pieces and building into a new ship as much of the old wood as is serviceable. This is dated 16th November 1691, and described as signed by the Commissioners of the Navy. To it ' a larger explication and some other particulars from Mr. Dummer of Chatham ' is added, which here follows.]
 
Defects in Ships, how discovered.
 
Without separating the several parts that compose the whole one from another, defects are found either by searching all seams, rents, and treenails with a caulking iron, or by boring into the frame with an auger ; by observing the ship's chambering or reathing(1) ;  the pitched seams to crack or spew out its oakum, or by the looseness of rust-eaten bolts. And as the matter is discernible by any of these means, together with a knowledge how long a ship hath been built, so the estimate of charge for repair is made ; and all beyond this visibility is conjecture, and no better to be discerned than is the condition of the vessels within a consumptive man before dissection.
 
1 Cambering or wreathing : curving or twisting.
 
An Ordinary Repair is understood to be the annual trimming of the ship in harbor(2) by caulking all those parts which lie to the weather, and laying on of pitch or other mixed stuff of rozin, tallow &c., upon the same ; and once in three years at furthest, to dock them and burn off the old matter under water ; to search the seams and caulk them as occasion is and to grave them anew, which is to say to pay them all over under water with pitch or other mixed matter, with rozin &c. And in this ordinary trimming and repair we allow only of putting of small pieces, or of plank where the seams are grown too wide, or where knots or rents or a particular plank too much perished to hold oakum for tightness against the weather or other leakage.
 
2 i.e. of a ship in ordinary.
 
An Extra Repair is taken to be such a defect in a ship's outward matter to the weather, that their frames cannot be preserved nor the ship fit for any service at sea by an ordinary trimming, without stripping such decayed materials of the outside planking and wales ; also the in-board works about the bulkheads and sides of the ship that lie to the weather ; therewith putting in short chocks and pieces in such part of the timbering of the frame as in this opening and stripping do appear decayed, and to repair the same all anew ; and many times to drive out all decayed iron bolts in the frame above and under water, placing upon the decks and sides an addition of standards, or riders, or both, that never was there before, for better strengthening the frame of a ship under such repair ; and sometimes the ship is sheathed under water, as the occasion calls for it ; and these works always requiring a dock, are finished with a good caulking all over and aying the ship with mixed stuff, pitch &c. for to keep the weather from preying on the materials of the body.
 
 
Rebuilding is taken to be when neither the ordinary nor extra repair before mentioned will overcome, and so is an entire stripping down of all the out and in-board works, and removing so much of the timber of the frame, beams, standards, knees, &c., as shall be found decayed and rotten, which is many times done to the leaving only one-fourth part of what is in the old frame in the rebuilt ship ; and sometimes it is only taken to be the unmoulding of the frame and the stripping of the out and in-board work, from the top of the sides to 4 or 5 strakes under the lower wales, and to take out the tires of top timbers and upon futtocks, shifting or scarfing (3) the decayed beams and knees, and making the same good again by new material, completing all in-board works and to caulk all over and to grave.
 
3 When the ends of two pieces of timber are cut square and put together, they are said to ' butt ' to one another ; and when another piece is laid upon and fastened to both, this is called ' scarfing the timbers.' — Falconer's Diet, of the Marine. But here the term seems rather to mean cuttmg away the decayed part and restoring the thickness of the beam by a new piece laid on.
 
Girdling . . . cannot so properly be called a repair in the matter as a supply of dimensions in breadth to the form of a ship that wants it ; and as occasion requires is from 4 to 8 and 10 inches thick on each side of the ship, in the parts that lie about the water edge in the midships; and this repair in the form of ships is done to obtain more breadth for their support under a wind, when they are found tender by leaning or lying down their sides too much to their sails.

Hi Gordon;
 
Belaying pins seem unlikely.  Most likely the running ends of hauling ropes that led down the mast were belayed around the shrouds,  and the mainsail sheet made fast to a cleat in the stern.
 
In full-size vessels at this period many of the running rigging ropes from the higher levels were belayed to the topmast shrouds,  and were worked by men standing in the tops,  not those on the upper deck.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

good day graduated from the big cabin remained small little things here that a coat of varnish to put the pen on the day lay out the process of construction and until ready option Anatoly
 
добрый день закончил большую каюту остались небольшие мелочи кое что покрыть лаком поставить ручки на днях выложу процесс постройки а пока готовый вариант Анатолий
 
 

The story of the Constitution's most famous action has been written about exhaustively. But here are the words of British eyewitnesses, to the best of my knowledge, have not been published elsewhere. The officiel letter of Captain James Dacres will be omitted, because it has  been printed many times elsewhere. Here are the recollections of those under his command.
 
The court martial was held on board HMS Africa, 64, in Halifax, on October 2, 1812.
 
Lieutenant bartholomew Kent was sworn in and testified as followed:
 
"August 19th, 1812, at 2 P.M., being on the wind on the starboard tack, we saw a sail on our weather beam, coming down before the wind. Made sail in chase. At  3 made her out to be a man of war. Went to quarters and prepared the ship for action. At 4 made her out to be the Constitution, which we had formerly chased off New York, but escaped by her superior sailing. Hauled up our courses, took in our top gallant sails, and backed the main topsail to wait for her coming down. The enemy at the same time hauled o a wind, took in his top gallant sails, courses, and reefed his topsails. At 4.5 filled, wore ship and hoisted our colours at each mast head. At 4.10 the enemy bore up - fired several shot at him. At 4..15 she hoisted her colours and returned our fire.. Wore several times to avoid being raked exchanging broadsides. At 5 she closed within half pistol shot, on our larboard beam, both keeping up a heavy fire and  steering free, his intention, evidently, being to cross our bows. At 5.20 the mizenmast fell and exposed the ship to a heavy raking fire from the enemy, who placed himself on our larboard bow, a few only of our bow guns being able to bear on him . At 5.40 the ship not answering her helm, he attempted to lay us on board, At 6, the ship coming to we  brought some of our bow guns to bear on the enemy and got clear of him. At 6.20 the fore and main masts went over the side, leaving the ship a perfect unmanageable wreck. The frigate immediately made sail ahead, and we began to clear away the wreck, in hopes of being able to get the ship before the wind to recommence the action, but just as we had cleared the wreck, the spritsail yard went, leaving the ship in the trough of the sea, rolling her guns under. The enemy by this time refitted wore round to rake us, and all attempts to get her before the wind proving in vain, the ship being much shattered in her hull, in a sinking condition, and 1/3 of her crew killed or wounded, Captain Dacres called the remaining officers together, when all were of the opinion that further resistance would be a useless expense of lives.  
 
Bart. Kent 1st Lieut.
 
Q: After the Guerriere had laid to, for the enemy to come down was she put under command in time?
 
A:  Yes. She filled previous to the enemy's coming within gunshot, and was kept under three topsails and jib and mizen staysail occasionally.
 
Q:  At what distance was the enemy when the Guerriere opened her fire?
 
A:   We fired a single shot first which went, I think, a half a mile beyond her, to try our distance. We then have her our starboard broadside shortly afterwards, and wore so as to fire our larboard broadside. The Constitution returned our broadside before the 2nd or 3rd. One shot went through our quarterdeck and another went though her gangway hammocks from her first broadside.
 
Q:  Were the best  positions preserved, thtat the superior sialing of the enemy and other circumstances would permit before the fall of the mizen mast?
 
A:  They were the best!
 
 
Q:  In what manner did the fall of the mizen  mast operate so as to prevent the ship from manuevering?
 
A:  The mizen fell on our starboard quarter. The enemy shot ahead and attempted to haul across our bows,  The ship came to at the same time and we were exposed to a raking fire from the enemy. I cannot say whether the ship came to against her helm. I can not speak as to the manner of the mizen mast operation.
 
Q:  How long were you clearing the wreck of the mizen mast?
 
A: We did not get clear of the mizen mast until the other masts fell.
 
Q:  How long were you first lieutenant of the Guerrieire?
 
A:  Nearly three years and a half.
 
 
Q:  Did you consider her a handy ship, or otherwise?
 
A:  Much the reverse, she seldom stayed, if there was any sea on. 
 
Q:  Relate to the court, the cause that appears to you to have preceded the fall of the fore and the main masts.
 
A:  Our fore mast was struck by a double headed shot, which was afterwards found laying on the fore castle. Several of the shrouds were cut away, and when we were aboard of the enemy our bow sprit was over his quarter, the pitching of slackened the fore stay and the masts fell about the same time. The main mast did not appear to me to be wounded by shot. Previous to our going into action our fore tressel trees were gone most of the fore rigging knotted, our bowsprit was defective. We were obliged to get down our long fore topgallant mast and get a short one up. The fore topmast was hanging by the top tackle pendants, the tressel trees not being able to support the weight of the topmast. The heel of the fore mast in falling fell over the main stay and the main stay being slackened by the weight and the jerk of the fore mast, carried the main mast with it. Most of the main shrouds were shot away.
 
 
Q:  Inform the court the state of the wind and sea at the time.
 
A:  There was a fresh breeze and a great deal of sea on.
 
Q:  What means were taken to get the ship before the wind after the fall of the masts, and how long were you clearing the wreck?
 
A:  The spritsail was loosed. We began immediately to clear away the wreck and got up a small spar on the stump of the foremast. I think we might have been three quarters of an hour before the whole wreck was cleared.
 
Q:  Did you succeed in getting before the wind?
 
A:  No. The sprit sail yard went and the ship having got into a trough of the sea, she lay there. She rolled so much I dod not think it would have been possible to work the guns. The shot and shot boxes on the quarterdeck were flying from side to side.
 
Q:  It appears from Captain Dacres letter that the fire from the enemy's small arms did great execution on the Guerriere's upper deck. Did you later ascertain the number of the enemy had at small arms at the time the ships came to close action, and how they were disposed of?
 
A:  When on board the Constitution I understand they had 12 men in each top with rifles and also between 50 to 60 marines with small arms on the gangways.
 
 
Q:  How many men with small arms did the Guerriere oppose at the time the ships first came to close action, to divert the enemy's fire from the men at your guns?
 
A:  In consequence of the main deck guns being shortly manned, from the number of men who were away, the marines were ordered down to man them, until Captain Dacres gave orders for the  whole of the marines to be sent up. I do not think we could have had more then ten men at small arms altogether. The whole of the marines were up when the ships closed, about thirty five in number.
 
Q:   How many men had you at each main deck gun?
 
A:  Seven including marines and a powder man - some calling themselves Americans were allowed to go below.
 
Q:  Do you know how many broadsides the ship fired?
 
A:  I cannot say. The fire from the ship was very brisk.
 
 
Q:  Relate to the court the position of the two ships when the enemy attempted to board?
 
A:   When the enemy came close to us, Captain Dacres gave me orders to go down on the main deck and snd every body up from below. I sent up part of them, but being found impracticable to board her, they were immediately sent down, previous to the others getting up The only position I observed the ships in was when I came up our bowsprit was over her larboard quarter.
 
Q:  Why was it impracticable to board?
 
A:  There was so much sea and the Guerriere coming to, it was impossible to get on board.
 
Q:  What proportion of the crew of the Guerriere was boarders and how were they armed?
 
A:   There were four men to every gun who were boarders, making 96 together, when the whole of the ships company were on board. All the men on the upper deck were boarders, armed with cutlasses - were lying on the main and upper deck  for them The boarding pikes were on the booms, some on the main deck, some on the fore castle.
 
 
Q:  Did the enemy make any attempt to board the Guerriere?
 
A:  The first lieutenant of the Constitution informed me that at the time he was wounded, he was on the tafferail to see if it was feasible to board the Guerriere. He heard us call our boarders and from the number of men that appeared on our deck, he expected we were going to board them and waited to receive us.
 
Q:  Did you exchange vollies of small arms at the time the people were up?
 
A:  Yes, we were defending ourselves with musketry and bow guns - at that time most of the marines were killed or wounded.
 
Q:  How often did the Guerriere wear during the action?
 
A:  We wore several times, but I cannot say how often.
 
 
Q:  Did the enemy wear as often?
 
A:  The enemy did not wear, she was coming down on our weather beam and yawed to give us her broadside.
 
Q:   Had you your broadsides to the enemy, when you wore?
 
A:  Part of our broadside wore on the enemy
 
Q:  What was the state of the Guerriere when the colours were ordered to be hauled down and what was the position and state of the enemy?
 
A:  All the masts  of the Guerriere were gone, several shot between wind and water, her hull much shattered and rolling so that it was impossible to use her guns The enemy wore round on the starboard bow, his masts and yards all standing, except the cross jack yard, and was approaching apparently with an intention of raking us, when we struck.
 
 
Q:  At what distance was the Constitution from the Guerriere when she struck?
 
A:  At long gun shot, about a mile.
 
Q:   How long had she retired from you to refit?
 
A:   I think about three quarters of an hour.
 
Q:   During the action, did any of the masts hamper your guns?
 
A:  Not until the fore and main masts fell - they rendered the starboard guns in part ineffectual.
 
 
Q:   Previously and during the action, was everything done that could be done to prevent the ship from falling into the hands of the enemy?
 
A:  Every thing was done."
 
 
         
 

Hi Gordon;
 
Belaying pins seem unlikely.  Most likely the running ends of hauling ropes that led down the mast were belayed around the shrouds,  and the mainsail sheet made fast to a cleat in the stern.
 
In full-size vessels at this period many of the running rigging ropes from the higher levels were belayed to the topmast shrouds,  and were worked by men standing in the tops,  not those on the upper deck.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Accurate mark-out with a very sharp, hard lead point and very well sharpened tools are the keys to a tight-fitting joint.

Michael,
 
I suspect as is often the case, it depends on the rate or maybe even the specific ship and a bit on the shipwrights.  The 50s and 60's were made slightly larger based on the 1733 modifications to the Establishment.  Bigger changes came with the 1745 Establishment. 
 
Examples of a 60 gun fourth rate
HMS Windsor 1729 built to the 1719 Establishment, Length  on the gun deck 144' 0"  Beam 39' 0"
HMS Warwick 1733, built to the 1719 Establishment, Length on the gun deck 144' 0"  Beam 39' 0"
HMS Stafford 1735 built to the 1733 modifications of the 1719 Establishment, Length on the gun deck 144'0" Beam  41' 5"
HMS Tiger 1747, built to the 1745 Establishment  Length on the gun deck 150' 0"  Beam 42' 8"
 
Allan

Greetings Merchen;
 
Thank you for posting the pictures of your model.  She is a fantastic-looking vessel.  Is she your own design,  or is she based on an illustration somewhere? The carvings are beautifully executed,  and the overall impression is really eye-catching.  I could spend a long time looking at your model,  and admiring the quality of the work.
 
I am also greatly impressed by the size of the knife you use,  and the idea of using cherry stones as raw material. 
 
Could you tell me where I might be able to find the picture you posted last year,  the engraved views of a vessel which seems to have been part of the basis for your design.  This is in post number 3,  the one with all the pictures of box trees and planks,  etc. 
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

An alle Bekannte und Freunde in diesem Forum, ich lade euch herzlich ein am Freitag, dem 03. Juni um 18.00 Uhr zum Stapellauf vom neuen Modell, dem Maerchenschiff. Dieses Modell wird ab diesem Tag zu der Sammlung im Msueum mit ausgestellt.
 
Wer Zeit und Moeglichkeit hat, dabei zu sein, wird sehr herzlich begruesst.
Das wird ein Spektakel der Superlative dieses Jahrhunderts!!!
 

Hi Bill;
 
Sorry,  I can't be of any real help to your friend there.  I have quite a bit of info on English men-o'-war,  but nothing on the French. 
 
However,  I am sure that I have seen references here to works that would be relevant.  Maybe Jean Boudriot publications have something,  although I suspect he covers a period that was slightly later in history.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Hi Bill;
 
Is you friend making a model from a particular period?
 
All the best,
 
Mark P