Mark P

Facing the upper deck with 30 guns seemed not quite so daunting. If I could have all the guns installed by Christmas I'd be happy.
 
After some strategic thinking, with my morning cup a' Joe in hand, I decided to work from forward to aft. There's only six guns under the forecastle. Since I frame the deck above with its beams, hanging and lodging knees, as I install a set of port and starboard guns, I would have a finished part of the ship from the keel up. 
 
There are only 14 gunport doors on the upper deck. I fabricate, with hinges, and install these first. Almost forgot. I pre-paint the interior planking red and install that before the guns go in too.
 

 
 
 
 

Part 8 The upper deck.
 
As of May, 2020, this is where Victory stands. A very long journey from April,1991, with still a long way to go. I'm starting to feel like Marco Polo and Ferdinand Magellan combined. And, oh yeah, lets not leave out Captain Cook for the sake of England's interests.
 
All the beams for the quarterdeck and forecastle are loosely in place on their ledges. First thing to do was to lay in the checkered floor in the Admiral's day cabin. I made the pattern in Photoshop, scaled it to the proper size, and printed it out on white bond. Since paper is a wood bi-product, I consider it compatible with the structure. I spray several coats of clear lacquer on each side to completely impregnate the paper, sealing it from any future moisture. Cut to fit and spray 777 contact cement to the underside and fit in place.

On a side note, Druxey very kindly pointed out that I had used New Times Roman for "VICTORY" which is a 20th Century typeface. Here is the re-painted version, which I'm much happier with. BTW, all my painting is directly on the wood, not on paper and glued on. 

@Waldemar
Waldemar - I have read through the London thread, and I have a few thoughts and drawings that I hope to share; I think some very important points were raised between all the bickering.
 
I need to read the Sutherland thread and the Moneypenny & Antscherl article has long been on my re-read and study list (it has been a hard few years, so I am a little behind). Right now I'm not informed enough with the material to even put a like on a post.

I have now drilled the hawse holes, and fitted a bolster waiting for final assembly for final trimming:
 

 
 
 
I now have to turn my attention to the trailboard. I am getting closer to painting the blue around this area, and I want to know where the trailboards need gluing.
I want to build the Bellona as first designed, and shown in the first model. But the trailboard detail is frustratingly difficult to see or to reconstruct, from the photo I took:

Unless someone has a better photo, I may have to build the trailboard on the second Bellona model:
 

If I do the latter, do you have any advice for how to glue this down to a backing board for piercing and carving, and then how to get it unglued from the backing board with those tiny, fragile pieces holding it together?
 
Mark
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

As  a person very devoted to quality in this field of research I am moved by your comments Waldemar and by the warm reception I have received from the members of this Forum as a whole. I am excited by the prospect of future exchanges of ideas!
 
P.S. @Waldemar I am of the same thinking in terms of our work being an interesting case of confirmation of ideas by independent work. I have looked enough at drawings  and such studies to know you never saw my work on English design before today. We can both still be wrong together:) but I think it adds weight to the underlying ideas.

@T. Pevny
 

Nihil novi sub sole!         I must repeat this paremia to myself even more often.
 
 
Mr. Pevny, first of all my sincere thanks for your interest and your post in this thread. A few sparse hours were obviously not enough to thoroughly study the very work of yours that I was not familiar with until today, i.e. Capturing the Curve: The Development of English Ship Design in the 16th to early 17th century. However, the wonderful diagrams along with their commentaries already speak for themselves. 
 
I already thought that my findings came first, but it is now clear that the palm of precedence belongs to you, of course. Still, I am happy and elated because my analysis was independent and the conclusions turned out to go in the right direction, finding their confirmation in your particularly professionally conducted analysis.
 
There may naturally be some minor differences of interpretation, but the substance of our findings really challenges the current orthodox order. I have this liberty because I am not part of a small community of people attending symposia and have not had to be careful not to offend anyone, but even here the reception has not been very enthusiastic and has even met with some active resistance.
 
Be that as it may, your approach, as well as my experience, shows vividly how important research methodology is, and how different results can be obtained with limited methods compared to more complete methods. In this particular case, one simply cannot limit oneself to reading the text and looking at the pictures, because eminently graphic subjects must necessarily be analysed by graphic methods as well. And the result of using these flawed methods is that we now have a whole body of modern works containing a multitude of anachronisms and their authors unhappy with this turn of events.
 
For the time being, let me add that your previous work, Capturing the Curve: Underlying Concepts in the Design of the Hull, 2017, impressed me greatly and also contributed significantly to my activity in this difficult and usually little understood matter.
 
The best,
Waldemar Gurgul
 
 

@Waldemar @trippwj @druxey @Mark P @B-Ram @Louie da fly @James H
@Richard Endsor
 
Dear Waldemar and other followers of this topic - I have never been active on any forum, so I hope I manage here. 
 
I agree with Waldemar that despite numerous important articles etc. on Baker's Fragments... graphic analysis of the type he has been posting is rare. Rare - but not non-existent:) 
 
The following is a link ( T. Pevny 2019 Early English Ship Design  ) to my MA 2019 thesis in which I present similar work on the same Baker drawing. It has about 60 pages of text and about 200 figures. Your work - Waldemar -  and mine led us in a similar direction. I hope everyone that reads it will find it interesting. If there is an interest - I would love to continue a discussion with all of you (posting images etc. as is common on this forum). I thank you Waldemar - because your posts made me finally make my study more widely accessible via Academia.edu.
 
I know that  Waldemar  also posted his analysis of the Mary Rose design in a separate thread. He disagrees with the conclusions on the design in the published official volume on the hull. I agree with him - I also think the official analysis is flawed. This is also discussed in my study, with figures.  
 
Waldemar - you also recommended that the design conclusions (as published) for the Basque whaler need re-examination. I agree - and I address this in my study along with a long look at the design theories of Brad Loewen. I hope others that commented recommending various articles that needed to be referenced will be satisfied by my literature review.
 
I want to be clear - I am thrilled that Waldemar's graphic analysis led him to examine the Baker drawing and the Mary Rose. I have been a proponent of the need for similar graphic research. But:) Waldemar maybe your "bedside manner" needs a little work:) One thing you can count on in a forum such as this is the love and enthusiasm of the members for the subject. But I do understand your excitement!
 
I am speculating with the following - but here it goes. Back in the late 1990s - early 2000s  I was working out my ideas on Mediterranean moulding and other design methods using models and countless drawings. I also had the privilege of dismantling and reassembling the remains of a small 17th century ship three times while working in a conservation lab. While doing this work - research and reconstruction drawings on French design and Mediterranean moulding - my ideas made me start seeing fundamental flaws in a series of design studies (whose conclusions were leaking out in Symposium presentations, articles..) on the Basque whaler, Mary Rose, an "Atlantic design method"... It was my thought that my graphic studies of Mediterranean moulding etc. were making me "see" things differently.
 
I wonder - and would be thrilled if this was even a little so - that my published work influenced Waldemar in the same way.
 
This past September  Waldemar  uploaded (with very kind words)  my study "Capturing the Curve: Underlying Concepts in the Design of the Hull" that  presents an early archaeological example of the French diagonal method of ship design as well as Mediterranean moulding. I am thrilled that 77 members of this forum downloaded it (it is public). Here is my link for it on Academia.edu T. Pevny 2017 La Belle design study
 
The warmest greetings to all of you!
Taras Pevny

Fred, I have often thought about showing, in great detail, how I go about making parts. The problem I always seem to run into is how to go about doing it knowing that certain subtle techniques are involved.
 
Take the stem for example. As Greg knows, the oscillating spindle sander on curved surfaces can give a smoother result than that of a scroll saw. That gets you somewhere in the ball park. The final shape still needs to be achieved and can be further honed in with some 90° sanding blocks. For myself, I will hold the pieces against a window in daylight and look for light leakage. It can be very time consuming and the back and forth takes technique, finesse and a lot of patience. HTH.

The gammoning knee was cut from an attached paper template on the scroll saw. The final shape was achieved with the disk sander, sanding sticks, #11 Xacto blade and assorted needle files. It would be very difficult for me to put that in writing in such a way that would be easily understood, I think.
 
Mike

Good Evening Mike;
 
Your work shows a very high degree of care and craftsmanship. The joints between the various pieces are so equal and consistent that it is hard to believe that this is hand worked. You are a master at this art, and I salute you.
 
All the best,
 
Mark 

Good Evening Mike;
 
Your work shows a very high degree of care and craftsmanship. The joints between the various pieces are so equal and consistent that it is hard to believe that this is hand worked. You are a master at this art, and I salute you.
 
All the best,
 
Mark 

Good Evening Mike;
 
Your work shows a very high degree of care and craftsmanship. The joints between the various pieces are so equal and consistent that it is hard to believe that this is hand worked. You are a master at this art, and I salute you.
 
All the best,
 
Mark 

Good Evening Mike;
 
Your work shows a very high degree of care and craftsmanship. The joints between the various pieces are so equal and consistent that it is hard to believe that this is hand worked. You are a master at this art, and I salute you.
 
All the best,
 
Mark 

Good Evening Mike;
 
Your work shows a very high degree of care and craftsmanship. The joints between the various pieces are so equal and consistent that it is hard to believe that this is hand worked. You are a master at this art, and I salute you.
 
All the best,
 
Mark 

Well done Mike. That is some clean, tight joinery. I can't wait to see your approach to the frames! 

Hi Dave,
Thanks for your interest. Have you considered starting a build log? It would be interesting to see a POB version.
 
Continuing with some catch up on my progress so far.
 
Keel
This is all very similar to what I did on the Winchelsea. The lower stem has a true boxing joint. The straight lengths of keel were made from two layers of 5/32” sheet which were offset, thus creating the half lap joint. The first section I added was the one that attaches to the knee and stem assembly. Additional keel sections were added to that by working aft. The false keel and rabbet strip were then cut and added to the keel.
 
For the keel bolts I used (.023) 30 pound black fishing line. The only change I made was to use a No. 73 bit instead of a No. 71. It provided the snug fit I was looking for. Holes were drilled about 1/8” deep.



Mike
 

I've added Black polyester rope to my website sizes ranging from .25mm - 1.8mm. The Black rope does have a fair amount of sheen to it, more than the Dark Brown. I might look into making another product line with Gutermann Mara thread. Mara is more matt but does have a little bit of fuzz. 
 
I'll start making the cables for both black and dark brown this week or next.

I have had the opportunity to order rope from Ben (RoS) as well as from Chuck (Syren). Both outstanding quality and quick delivery. Syren has limited the amount of rope per placed order and I needed much more for my ship, so I found RoS and ordered the rest of what I needed. I am pretty overwhelmed by Ben's service and the quality is phenomenal. I mean really really good! 
 
I am not in the position to make my own quality rope and I was looking for an upgrade for my current project 
 
Let me explain a bit further, from Syren the rope I've ordered is a cotton / polyester blend or mix and so I've ordered at RoS cotton ropes (took a leap of fate because I didn't know Ben or RoS) to have sort of the same. However, Ben contacted me by pm and asked me if I would upgrade the ropes from cotton to 100% Gutermann polyester rope for free. To me poly rope has some benefits over cotton, like no fussiness, better resistance with climate changes and humidity and long lasting. So, I opted for the upgrade! Well, when received my package of ropes, I couldn't be more pleased. You should have seen the smile on my face when opening and layed out all the ropes and cable. Boy, the quality, tightness is fantastic. 
 
But, this is not the end of the story. Ben again contacted me short after sending out the package and apologized for the color of the "dark brown" batch. To him, the color was a bit too dark like almost black. He knew I didn't want black but more like a chocolate brown and so he told me that he's sending me a new batch with a lighter color for free!  This is absolutely top service I didn't expected and when I received the second package and compared both colors, he was right down to the money! The replacement batch of the lighter dark brown color was just perfect and exactly what I wanted. I know this is a personal preference, but the service and the way Ben wanted me to get the right color and not disappoint me is a service which becomes rare in this world. For me this was a done deal, and I will order again! What a more than outstanding service! 
 
I have no ties with RoS nor with Ben personally, but RoS deserves a good review so, I give one! 
 
The batch of ropes I've ordered and a comparison of the dark brown color and a comparison of cable. 
 

 

 

 
So the picture below shows cable from Ropes of Scale and Syren. This is not a comparison which one is best, because to me both are excellent quality and I love both of them and I think the best out there on the market you can buy. I only want to show you the difference between left 100% polyester and on the right a mix of cotton / polyester. (I don't know the percentage but I think it's more cotton than poly)
It's more a personal preference I'll guess.
 

 

 
 
So, for my project Cazador I will use Ben's ropes and I'm looking forward how they will look on the ship. I'll have to wait though, because I'm very busy with carving at the moment and not gotten to the rigging part of the ship.
 
I would like to thank Ben for his service and if you guys have any questions about Ben's ropes or service I'm happy to answer them. Just send me a pm!
 
regards,
Peter

I have finally finished adding all of the left-hand variants for my Cotton black and dark brown rope. With that out of the way, it's full speed ahead with synthetic rope production!
 
I've also added cheaper shipping options.

 

I've been working out the formulas for the Gutermann E thread and I have some pictures to show. I purchased the color card and bought every color that I thought would look like rope. I like this thread quite a lot. It's easy to work with, has zero fuzz, low shine, and is very strong. It's also a quarter the cost of cotton thread and I don't have to treat it with book-binders PVA. This should make my synthetic line of rope more affordable. 
 
On the left we have pale beige. In the middle we have tan which is very close to my cotton tan color. On the right we have a golden brown, I think it's close to manila hemp. The tan I'll get into production for sure. The other two however need some testing onboard some models before I go any further.

For the standing rigging colors we have the usual suspects. Black on the left. Very dark brown in the middle. Dark brown on the right, It's actually a little darker than what is in the photo as I turned the brightness up a bit. I like them all to be honest and will probably have them all available on my store.

Here is a 2.4mm cable I made with the tan color. Very crisp detail with no fuzz!

I'm going to put the dark brown and tan into production and I hope to have them online by early next month. I'm also going to look into other types of thread for the lighter colors. Amann Serafil I hope has some good options but the color card still need's to arrive. 
 
Thanks for looking in! 
 

Hello and many, many thanks for your comments and likes
 
Mark, just try and try again. It's not the first lion I have carved that sits there. As an architect I think you could think in three dimensions. The rest is training. Or as some say, the lion sits already in the wood, you must only cut away all the parts who did't belong to the lion. 😉
 
Greg, that is the example after which I worked the gammon rack or rack block. Its from the Invincible 1747. All the parts they have recovered from the wreck, are now in Chatham and many on display. 

Beautiful work, Siggi. Your craftsmanship is spectacular, and your carving and painting set the very highest standard for everyone else. I wish you could offer lessons in your techniques!
Mark

Hello and many, many thanks,
here a little update. The gammon lashings are ready.

Great beautiful work Siggi.

Wonderful work.   
 
Chuck