usedtosail

Well said, Ed.

William L. Crothers
I am very sorry to report that Bill Crothers passed away on Friday, May 1.  He was in his 103rd year.  Bill’s research and writings on American clippers and packets, in particular his intensive exploration of the structures of these ships, place him at the forefront of contributors to our knowledge of these subjects.  I am personally indebted to him, for without his work there would be no framed Young America model, nor perhaps more excellent examples to follow.  It was my special privilege to have briefly known Bill and to have his valuable comments on my work.  I will always value the interest he showed in the model, no less than the writings that made it possible.
 
Ed

I agree with Jay (Modeler12).  Spend the time to learn the names and the functions of the different lines.  You will find that the name will often describe the lines location and function.
 
I made a spreadsheet for the rigging plan also for the following reasons:
1.  To get the proper sizes of line
2.  To get the proper sizes and locations of blocks
3.  To itemize how much line and how many blocks I needed to purchase or make.
4.  To organize and order the rigging process
5.  To correct errors in the rigging plan
6.  To translate from the french instructions
 
It will all fall into place.  There is a definite logic to the rigging plan.  When you understand the purpose of the lines, it all just makes sense.  Certain groups of lines do certain things and they all work as a system, often in opposing fashion.  One line will hoist, while the other lowers.  One will hold the mast forward, while the other back.  One will brace a yard in to port, the other to starboard.
 
Regards,

I use the same approach to rigging (I am also a software developer, too). I make a spreadsheet of the rigging in the order that it is to be done in. This order changes as the rigging progresses, however, as I see what kind of tight spots are being created. One bit of advice I would add is to look at the many practicums that are available, especially those by Chuck Passaro. You can find these on the Model Expo web site for the Phantom and Sultana models, among others. I think he has some on the Syren web site too. The order that he uses is basically the same order I use, but tailored for whatever model I am working on. I usually still spend quite a bit of time filling out the spreadsheet, but it makes the rest of the rigging process so much easier.

Those are beautiful little mortars you have there, Matt.

I use the same approach to rigging (I am also a software developer, too). I make a spreadsheet of the rigging in the order that it is to be done in. This order changes as the rigging progresses, however, as I see what kind of tight spots are being created. One bit of advice I would add is to look at the many practicums that are available, especially those by Chuck Passaro. You can find these on the Model Expo web site for the Phantom and Sultana models, among others. I think he has some on the Syren web site too. The order that he uses is basically the same order I use, but tailored for whatever model I am working on. I usually still spend quite a bit of time filling out the spreadsheet, but it makes the rest of the rigging process so much easier.

Those are beautiful little mortars you have there, Matt.

Those are beautiful little mortars you have there, Matt.

I ended up working with some of the tiny stuff today. I used 28ga wire to make all the eyelets.

Final look except I still need to do the chains.

I too am at that stage, and in general have found the combination of Steel, Biddlecombe's 1848 Art of Rigging, Petersson, zu Mondfeld, some rigging tables from the forum's database, a visit to Chatham to look at 18th-19th century cutters, and numerous contributors on this forum to be the most useful.
 
My own decision was not to go for rope (other than for seizing) less than 0.25mm, and then to restrict myself to observable differences. So I've ended up making rope of 0.25, 0.4, 0.5, 0.7 and 1.0 -- apart from the anchor ropes which will be made from one of those.
 
Then I went through Petersson and by using Biddlecombe's tables, listed each rope to the nearest size of my thread in a spreadsheet table (which automatically converts the original circumference sizes in inches to mm at 1/64).
 
I added to my table the blocks that would be connected to the ropes, defining them by the rope sizes, using the spreadsheets I mention below of zu Mondfeld's tables for block sizes. As with the ropes, I've decided on only a few block sizes, going for the smaller option when available. Thus I have 3mm, 4mm and 5mm blocks in single, double and triple sizes.
 
You'll find a very handy set of spreadsheet tables for the sizes by Jim Lad <Period Ship Scale Tables.xls>  as well as Biddlecombe's book in the Ship Modeling Database of this forum.
 
There also used to be two spreadsheets on the old forum (MSW1.0) before the crash called <Rigging rope sizes metric V2.03.xls> by Bev Armstrong (which allows you to specify the period of your ship and the rope diameter steps you prefer) which converts using zu Mondfeld's data, and <Rigging.xls> by Peter Jaquith which is a rigging line and block conversion table allowing you to input the scale of your model to establish the scaled diameter of rope and the ensuing blocks in both mm and inch dimensions. I have both of these latter tables and can send them to you by PM if you'd like.
 
Armed with all this, the advice given above by the others in their replies above sounds great. I've found that as with all the other steps in making a model so far, the best approach is a step at a time, making sure you understand the function and the potential ways of making it as fully as possible, and you'll find that all of a sudden you're looking back at something you thought would be next to impossible before you started.
 
After having been daunted, like you, with the new terminology and complexity of rigging, as well as the different ways in which the same piece of rigging can be described, I've now completed my bowsprit rigging and about to venture to the uncharted territory of masts and yards. This time not with dread, but with interest and excitement at the thought I may actually be able to do it!
 
Best of luck!
 
Tony

George, you were correct. After more experimentation last night, I was able to make some nice rope that did not want to untwist. I twisted the individual strands longer than pulled the rope to harden it after it twisted up. I then got brave and tried to make thicker rope from the thinner ropes. The first attempt was a disaster, as I did not twist the individual strand enough. The second attempt, after having to remake the individual ropes again, was better, but still did not look good.
 

 
I quit for the night and this morning I tried it again using a heavier weight. This was a success. I made these ropes with white thread, so I stained them brown by soaking them for a minute in brown shoe polish, wiping off the excess, and letting them dry.
 

 
OK, since I was taking pictures I figured I'd show where I was with the starboard guns. I did more rigging of them after the rope making experiments yesterday and today.
 

Finished with the portside gun port panel figures.... 
The Scorpion....

The Scales and Scorpion installed....

The port side figures....

this could be a new phase of insanity for me...........
 
OK......this assembled quick,   but it was very delicate......the chain broke on me once.   you'd never notice it though.
 
it all started with this hole I drilled into the podium upright post.
 

 
hard to see.....I know.   I had the idea earlier,  but the copper chain I have here is too large......I would have to drill the holes way too big.   then I thought......I have a container of chain......take a look see.   all I have is this real thin gold chain....it's enough,  but the gold color is what throws me.   I decided to use it anyway.   drilling out the holes in the blocks,  one I fastened an eye bolt,  the other a hook.   setting the blocks up on my helping hands,  I tied thread to one end of the chain and began to thread it through the blocks.   at one point it broke,  but I repaired it with thread {tiny knot}.
 

 
taking it out of the helping hands,  it was kinda flimsy.......the bottom block wanted to twist.  since it is gold chain,  I decided to match the paint with the color of the blocks and paint the chain,  making sure I got some on the blocks.  the chain adhered to the blocks and prevented the twisting. 
 

 
once I let it dry a bit,  a pick was used to separate the chains,  so they follow their paths.  it was then cemented in place, in the hole I had drilled.
 

 

 
I tried to get a close up......
 

 
anyway......there's my big idea.......a  'chain fall'.   it can even be called a  'come along',  depending what the application is it's being used for.

Thanks George. I started with 1/8" double blocks and filed/sanded them down to roughly 3/32" I already had 3/32" single blocks, so I used them for the other side of the tackle. At this scale, 6" blocks would be 5/64".

George, you were correct. After more experimentation last night, I was able to make some nice rope that did not want to untwist. I twisted the individual strands longer than pulled the rope to harden it after it twisted up. I then got brave and tried to make thicker rope from the thinner ropes. The first attempt was a disaster, as I did not twist the individual strand enough. The second attempt, after having to remake the individual ropes again, was better, but still did not look good.
 

 
I quit for the night and this morning I tried it again using a heavier weight. This was a success. I made these ropes with white thread, so I stained them brown by soaking them for a minute in brown shoe polish, wiping off the excess, and letting them dry.
 

 
OK, since I was taking pictures I figured I'd show where I was with the starboard guns. I did more rigging of them after the rope making experiments yesterday and today.
 

Thanks George. I can't wait for you to start either.
 
Well. here is the white stripe terminated at the quarter galleries. I am glad you got me to do this.
 

 
Assembling and rigging the gun deck cannons continues. Here are the first two, completed with rope coils.
 

 
I made up this jig to make the flat rope coils. I wanted them more oval shaped than round, so I used some brass rod to get the shape. I make the coils so they are close to the top of the rods to make it easier to get them off. I am using Dullcote lacquer to fix the shape of the coils, which is mostly successful. The coils do hold the shape but it takes a small bit of CA to hold them together. These coils are only a couple of turns because I would think the tackle lines wouldn't be really long.
 

 
And here is the present state. I still have to secure the breaching lines on the two right hand cannons and then add the tackles.
 

 
It is too nice a day here to go back into the basement, so maybe later tonight I will get back to it.

OK George, first thing I did last night was mask off the area behind the last gun ports for the white strip. Each side got a first coat. This was after I removed the masking tape on the starboard side for the pilaster extensions.
 

 
Then it was back to those first two cannons for the gun deck. The girl got her first two teeth tonight. I glued the barrels and quoins to the carriages in the little jig I made, then added caps over the trunnions using black paper strips. I glued the guns into place using CA on the pins and white glue under the wheels. I am really happy how well those pins hold the guns in place, as I don't have to worry about them coming loose as I work around them. It is a little tricky getting them in place and flat to the deck, but some gentle bending of the pin gets the job done. Once in place, I drilled holes for the eye bolts on the ends of the breaching ropes and for eye bolts for the side and training tackles. The eye bolts on the breaching ropes were pretty hard to get into the holes, as they are short and wanted to twist in the tweezers. But after many attempts I was able to get them glued in. The other eye bolts were much easier to glue into place as they didn't have any line on them yet. I was then able to hook the tackles to these eye bolts and those on the carriages. This also took some practice as it was hard to keep enough tension on the tackle after the first hook was place while trying to get the second hook in place. Again, after a number of tries it got easier. Once the tackle was tightened the hooks stayed in place nicely. This is the first time I have made these tackles up before installing them and I found it much easier than trying to thread the tackle lines with the blocks already in place. I was also happy to see that I had enough distance between the blocks on the tackles, which was helped by adding the eye bolts towards the center of the area between the gun ports, which is how they are on the real ship today. I was also happy that the angle of the two barrels look about the same. Hopefully this will continue as I put the rest of them in place.
 

 

 

 
I still have to figure out how I want to finish those tackle lines, but I have some ideas I want to try out first. Two down, 14 yet to go.

Thanks Tim, George, Rich and Steve, and the likes.
 
We were away last weekend and a few work related activities this week, so only a small amount of progress this week. I added all the pilasters to both quarter galleries, then focused on the port side gallery. I was able to use the supplied middle window, but I ended up making a new window for the rear one. I used the same method I used for the transom windows, first gluing the window frame strips to some paper, then making the mullions on the table saw and gluing them to the outer frame, then sanding off the paper when it was all dry. Here are the two windows dry fit in place before painting.
 

 
I painted  them white and also painted the roof caps black with white sides. I first tried doing this free hand, but ended up cutting masking tape to the curve and using it to paint the white portion. Here are the windows and the cap in place on the port side, after gluing and trimming the floppy disk material to the backs of the windows.
 

 
I started adding some styrene strips for trim on the pilasters and underneath between the bottom block and the faring piece. I am matching these up to the two trim strips on the transom. I am also going to try adding a strip along the tops and bottoms of the windows after they are all installed. I started making the front window using the same method.
 

 

 
Finally, I made up a ladder to go into the hatch on the gun deck. I usually make these by hand by marking the locations of the stairs on the sides then filing out the slots for them. This time, I used the Byrnes saw to make the slots, using the miter gauge to change the angles very precisely from one side to the other. I made this task much easier and the ladder went together very easily.
 

 
I have to do a little work on my daughters car, but then I can get back to the workshop later today, so more progress coming soon.
 

And I will update my question and answer. The additional twisting of the individual strands did produce rope that did not want to unwind. I then experimented with making thicker rope from these thinner ropes, rotating them in the opposite direction. After a couple of unsuccessful attempts, I was able to figure out the right weight and amount of twist to make decent rope. I am really pleased with this rope walk and look forward to making the ropes for the Constitution.
 

George, you were correct. After more experimentation last night, I was able to make some nice rope that did not want to untwist. I twisted the individual strands longer than pulled the rope to harden it after it twisted up. I then got brave and tried to make thicker rope from the thinner ropes. The first attempt was a disaster, as I did not twist the individual strand enough. The second attempt, after having to remake the individual ropes again, was better, but still did not look good.
 

 
I quit for the night and this morning I tried it again using a heavier weight. This was a success. I made these ropes with white thread, so I stained them brown by soaking them for a minute in brown shoe polish, wiping off the excess, and letting them dry.
 

 
OK, since I was taking pictures I figured I'd show where I was with the starboard guns. I did more rigging of them after the rope making experiments yesterday and today.
 

Nothing new to show on the Constitution. Installing and rigging the starboard side gun deck guns continues, but it looks just like the port side, so no new pictures.
 
I do have a couple of new toys, er tools, in the workshop, thanks to my very generous Admiral. The first is a new rope walk from Dormanoff. As I mentioned previously, I wanted to try using this horizontally like the ME rope walk, using the back end of the ME rope walk. Like this:
 

 

 

 
I have to say it worked well in this configuration, pretty much just like the ME set up but with less work. I still had to manually crank the other end after the threads were tensioned, but that went pretty quickly. In the first photo you can see some samples of Chuck's rope from Syrene, which is what i am using as a goal. My rope is not there yet, and still wants to unwind if left to itself.
 
I then tried the new rope walk in the vertical position with a weight on the other end, like it is intended. It worked really well this way, too. The resulting rope looks better to me than the horizontally produced rope, but still wants to unwind. It is easier to set up in this configuration, too, so I think this is the way I will use it in the future.
 
The other new tool is on the bench but I haven't used it yet. This is the Byrnes thickness sander. There have been a couple of times in the Connie build where I could have used it, so I should have a chance to try it out soon.
 

 
It does look good next to the other power tools, hee hee...
 

 
I'll get some pics of the cannons when they are fully rigged, I promise.

George I am pretty excited to see the ropes from Chuck. I am hoping his smaller ropes will look better when in blocks, as the stuff I have is kind of stiff and wants to stick out away from the blocks.
 
Steve - I don't know about that strong, but hopefully it will lessen the oops factors as I proceed.
 
Last night I did find some rope I had from an older kit that matches what I made really well, so I am using that for the starboard side breaching lines. Firstly, I tied up the loose ends (literally?) on the port side last night, so here ii is with all the rope coils installed:
 

 
From the outside, I am pretty happy with the alignment of the guns. The head on shot shows some reflection from deep inside the gun barrels that doesn't show up in real life:
 

 

 
I was able to drill into the underside of the barrels. I made a starter hole with a pin vise then put one of the barrels into my drill press vise and drilled deeper. This worked great except that these barrels are so soft that the vice kind of crushed the details on the sides of the barrel, so for the second barrel I drilled the whole hole by hand. I glued a piece of wire into that hole and will make a corresponding hole in the quoin for the other end. I suppose I should also pin the quoins down to the carriage, which I can do when installing them by just drilling through the quoin and the carriage base and putting a piece of wire through the holes. You can also see in this picture the how the line I found for the breaching ropes (right) compares to the line I made (left).
 

 
I am glad I can continue with the guns, but there is still many other pieces that I can work on if I had to wait. I ordered the line from Chuck yesterday and it has shipped today, so I would not have had to wait too long. That is great service. I also ended up ordering the rope walk to play with, but since that is coming from Russia I have a feeling it will take a little longer.

George, you were correct. After more experimentation last night, I was able to make some nice rope that did not want to untwist. I twisted the individual strands longer than pulled the rope to harden it after it twisted up. I then got brave and tried to make thicker rope from the thinner ropes. The first attempt was a disaster, as I did not twist the individual strand enough. The second attempt, after having to remake the individual ropes again, was better, but still did not look good.
 

 
I quit for the night and this morning I tried it again using a heavier weight. This was a success. I made these ropes with white thread, so I stained them brown by soaking them for a minute in brown shoe polish, wiping off the excess, and letting them dry.
 

 
OK, since I was taking pictures I figured I'd show where I was with the starboard guns. I did more rigging of them after the rope making experiments yesterday and today.
 

George, you were correct. After more experimentation last night, I was able to make some nice rope that did not want to untwist. I twisted the individual strands longer than pulled the rope to harden it after it twisted up. I then got brave and tried to make thicker rope from the thinner ropes. The first attempt was a disaster, as I did not twist the individual strand enough. The second attempt, after having to remake the individual ropes again, was better, but still did not look good.
 

 
I quit for the night and this morning I tried it again using a heavier weight. This was a success. I made these ropes with white thread, so I stained them brown by soaking them for a minute in brown shoe polish, wiping off the excess, and letting them dry.
 

 
OK, since I was taking pictures I figured I'd show where I was with the starboard guns. I did more rigging of them after the rope making experiments yesterday and today.
 

Ok, I am going to answer my own question. After doing a search on "unwind" in the forums I found a few threads that talk to this problem. It looks like it is the amount of winding of the individual threads that is the trick to not unwinding. So, I will try adding a lot more twist to the individual threads before releasing the weight.