Chuck Seiler

I think they were placed there simply to perplex future modelers and researchers.

Which one is Ragnar?
 
    A couple suggestions, if I may. 
1.  I recommend using a harder, finer grained wood than basswood.  I personnaly like boxwood, but I am sure there are others.  Folks here can advise better than I.  Rockler, or other stores in your area  might have small pieces of a suitable wood (for practice and final version).  Alternative-check with the wood vendors that are MSW sponsors.  You may be able to get suitable sized boxwood custom cut, rather than getting a big hunk.
 
B.  Be sure to scarph your figurehead.  See attached (yellow lines highlight scarphed seams).

He is their mythological inspiration. But the guy on the left is their Captain Aegir, who is "associated with brewing ale" in old Norse records, according to Wikipedia.
 
 
Thanks Chuck and Steven for your guidance on the wood. I will take it to heart and look at MSW sponsors and see what I can come up with, and now plan to place a small order. I see at least a couple there. I'll dive into that tomorrow. 
 
And for the tip about scarphing. I would have omitted that, but now will do.
 
I've seen pictures of that astounding Academician head in reading about the Oseberg ship. It is a thing of complex beauty.
 
In looking online, and here at MSW build logs, I read about Viking styles, such as Ringerike and Jelling. To be honest it was hard for me to pin down differences. I chose the head I did because the shape resonated, and I thought there is a remote possibility that I could carve it. 
 
Thanks again.

I'd agree with Chuck about the timber. If you can't get boxwood, try for one of the fruit woods - apple, cherry - I use pearwood (from the neighbour's tree) and have found that if you pick a fine-grained piece (some of them aren't - they've grown too quickly) they carve very nicely. Apricot's good too.
 
I've not seen your completed shields before. They look very good. Nice work.
 
The figurehead you've chosen is one of the more attractive ones in existence - though it's not from a ship (IIRC it's from a bed-end or something - or perhaps from the frame of a tent). But then NO Viking ships' figureheads have ever been found, so we have to work with what we've got. Just be glad you're not trying to copy the dragon head carved by the unknown Viking woodcarver referred to as the Academician .

 
Steven

I don't know so this is total spitballing..........could it that that the higher middle ring was used for the outhaul when the cannon was firing in a more or less level position. The cannon's weight would be more to the middle of the carriage. And the rear ring was used when the cannon was firing in an elevated position because the cannon's weight would be more to the rear of the carriage? As I said, spitballing. 

Which one is Ragnar?
 
    A couple suggestions, if I may. 
1.  I recommend using a harder, finer grained wood than basswood.  I personnaly like boxwood, but I am sure there are others.  Folks here can advise better than I.  Rockler, or other stores in your area  might have small pieces of a suitable wood (for practice and final version).  Alternative-check with the wood vendors that are MSW sponsors.  You may be able to get suitable sized boxwood custom cut, rather than getting a big hunk.
 
B.  Be sure to scarph your figurehead.  See attached (yellow lines highlight scarphed seams).

I think they were placed there simply to perplex future modelers and researchers.

I think they were placed there simply to perplex future modelers and researchers.

Back again with more contemporary information and I promise it to be my last - in this topic that is. However, as it’s fairly compelling info I thought I should post it.
 
This time it’s from the USS Constitution. All her carriage guns appear to have two pairs of outhaul tackle rings and the way they are rigged supports the theory that one pair is used for outhaul and one for the traverse - see pics below.

It is possible that the outhaul tackle could be used, as Gary says, to secure the gun, but it appears that outhaul is its prime purpose. I think the traverse tackle is providing too much lateral pull to be used as an outhaul, but have a look at the pics and decides for yourselves.
 
The first pic BTW is the starboard bow gun.
 

 

 

 

I did not know this and as the government is known for always being efficient, they must have done lengthy studies with shipwrights and forest services and calculated 50,000 acres is what was needed. to maintain one ship that mostly sits in port.   If the government says 50,000  acres is needed  it must be true correct.  Now if we dig a little more, and maybe this has changed in the past few years, but the Navy maintains (pays for) the forest but it is privately owned by Brett Franklln of TriState Lumber LLC.   I wonder how much he is paid for allowing use of 50,000 acres when maybe far less is actually needed.  Sorry for being skeptical, but ...........   
 
Allan

Greetings all, I have been quite inactive for some time, for a variety of reasons, but have started to make some more progress in the last week or so.
 
I am calling the shields complete and have mounted them along the gunwale
 
The oars on the starboard side are also glued in place. My intent has always been to have the oars extended on one side and in their racks on the other. This is dictated by the size of the shelf where the ship will be displayed, not wide enough to have the oars in use on both sides, but I wanted to show them .
 

 

 
Next I'll move on to the dragon figurehead, and have this in mind now.  The wood is cut from a basswood block I bought at the local Michael's hobby store.
 

 
I will start chipping away (pun intended) and hopefully it turns out as intended. We shall see.
 
The crew is now getting excited as they see some progress at last!
 

 
Thanks for having a look.
 

Just a minor point to add to what Peter said above.  When an anchor cable is said to be belayed to the riding bitts, it is not at all similar to belaying a normal line to, say, a cleat.  Anchor cables are far too thick for a normal belay.  The cable would at most have taken a single turn around the bitts before being led below.  The riding bitt, therefore, serves to provide some much needed friction in order to hold the cable.  In fact, the cable would almost certainly be constantly monitored and veered or slacked as necessary. The actual securing of the cable was by means of stoppers.
 
Regards,
 
Henry

According to 'Seamanship in the age of sail' by John Harland the anchor cable never went directly to the capstan - except in small ships or boats - but was hauled in with the messenger. That messenger formed a closed loop around the capstan and a place forward, where the cable could be bent to it by the nippers (short bits of thin rope). The messenger was hauled aft by the capstan also  taking the cable aft. When the cable neared a hatchway to the cable tier it was unbent and lead below. The messenger continued empty around the capstan and was lead back forward to be connected again with the cable.
When at anchor, the cable was tied off (belayed) to the riding bitts. Those are a substantial pair of square posts, projecting vertically above the deck and joined aft by a heavy crosspiece, just abaft the foremast. The unused length of cable went from there through the hatchway to the cable tier.
When the anchor was stowed during voyage the cables were unbent. In preparation for coming near land the cables were bent again and the anchor lashings removed except simple lashings  to the ring and to the shank. In preparation for anchoring a sufficient length of cable for the expected depth could be ranged on the deck ready to let go while the part of the cable coming up the hatchway was  already belayed to the riding bitts.
 
So... I guess you need to know in what situation your Mayflower is  to know how to arrange anchors and cables.
 
And while writing this I realized that on my models I may have depicted some strange arrangements but then I'm only a landlubber, somewhat like-minded to Stephen Maturin.
 
Cheers
Peter

I doubt that the anchor cable was tied off anywhere in board.  The bulk of the cable would be below deck coiled on the cable tier.  Stoppers would be employed on the deck to check the movement of the cable. The stoppers are what would be eye spliced to ring bolts in the deck with their ends hitched around the anchor cable to hold it fast. Perhaps the bitter end of the cable was made fast to a ring somewhere in the cable tier but, this is just a last ditch measure to try to prevent the complete loss of a cable overboard. It was never used to hold fast the cable in regular use.
 
Regards,
Henry

This post is a continuation of a post in the Nautical/Naval History section of these forums:
https://modelshipworld.com/topic/34553-hms-victory-renovation-outer-planking-removed/
 
A visit to HMS Victory at Portsmouth added to my uncertainty in the making of gratings.  This led me to investigate the subject and I’m now posting my findings on MSW in case there’s something that someone else can take from them. As The Naval history forum is not the right place for this; I post it here where I think it probably belongs.
 
The Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture, 1812 Edition, David Steel.
COAMINGS. The raised borders of oak about the edge of the hatches and scuttles, which prevent water from flowing down from the deck. The inside upper edge has a rabbet to receive the gratings.
 
GRATINGS. The lattice coverings of the hatchways, which are made with openings to admit air, or light, by cross battens and ledges. The openings should never be so large as to admit the heel of a man’s shoe, as they may otherwise endanger those who pass over them.
 
BATTENS. ….. Battens for gratings are narrow thin laths of Oak.
 
LEDGES. Oak or fir scantlings used in framing the decks, which are let into the carlings athwartships. The ledges for gratings are similar, but arch or round up agreeable to the head ledges.
 
HEAD-LEDGES.  The ‘thwartship pieces which frame the hatchways and ladders.
 
 
The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War 1600-1815, Brian Lavery.
‘Essentially a grating was made up of strips of timber running fore and aft, and others running athwartships across them. The thwartships timbers, known as ledges, were the deepest. In the early nineteenth century they were cut approximately 3in square in cross-section. Recesses were cut at suitable intervals, to take the battens which ran fore and aft. The battens were as broad as the ledges, but they were only about 3/4in deep, except for the outermost ones, which were deeper, for they gave strength to the structure, and fitted into the recess into the coaming. The grating curved upwards towards the centre line of the ship, as did the head ledge to which it was fitted. The spaces between the battens and ledges were roughly equal to their widths, but this was open to slight adjustment to allow the grating to fit into a specific space. Gratings were nearly always rectangular, except for the few oval ones fitted on the hatches above the steerage on some large ships of the late seventeenth century.’
Brian Lavery also shows photos of the main hatch of an NMM model of a 70-gun ship, c1730, which conforms with this description.
 
To summarise the above, deck grating battens run fore and aft, ledges athwartships, and the battens are cut into recesses on the ledges.
However, there does appear to be occasion where the grating location calls for battens to run athwartships, as in the Victory beakhead shown in the photos, below.
 
 
The Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture, 1812 Edition, David Steel.
Table of Each Dimension or Scantling for the Upper Deck Gratings:

 
Summary of upper deck grating scantlings given in the table:
Ledges of ships 24-guns and up are 3in broad and 3 1/2in deep, and battens are 3in broad and 3/4in thick. For ships less than 24-guns ledges are 2 1/2in broad and 3in deep, and battens are 2 1/2in broad and 3/4in thick. For Denmark yachts ledges are 2in broad and 2 1/2in deep, and battens are 2in broad and 3/4in thick. For East India ships 818 tons to 1257 tons, West India ships 330 tons to 544 tons, and Packets of 201 tons, ledges are 2 1/2in broad and 3in deep, and battens are 2 1/2in broad and 3/4in thick. For Schooners of 133 tons, ledges are 2in broad and 3in deep, and battens are 2in broad and 5/8in thick. For brigs and sloops ledges are 2 1/2in broad and 3in deep, and battens are 1 1/4in broad and 1 1/4in thick.  
For other decks, grating scantlings will often differ.
 
 
Upper Deck Grating with Battens running fore and aft:

 
Middle Deck Grating with Battens running fore and aft:

 
Beakhead Grating with Battens running athwartship:

 

 

Sadly so.  We are still hiding from COVID.

Chuck,
 
yes, only the cant frames are the problematic ones. The others fit in very nicely.
 
Frank

Huge applause to those that organize the conference as I cannot imagine the work that goes into organizing such an event and hoping there are enough attendees to make it worth all that effort.  But, is covid the reason to cancel??   Regardless, 'tis a shame.

I would like to suggest Bremerton WA. You have the Naval Museum at the Puget Sound Naval shipyard and the Undersea Warfare Museum at Torpedotown Keyport Wa and I know the undersea museum has plenty of space.

I second the suggestion that a hard look at the PNW be made.   Aside from Bremerton, which has historic ship museums, an undersea museum as well as a healthy maritime tradition it also has the Center for Wooden Boats, the School of Wooden Boat Building and the annual Wooden Boat Festival.  Im positive a location could be had at reasonable prices with choice accommodation collocated.    I also live here...  which is a bonus for me :).

Frank,
 
    You are only talking about the cant frames, correct?

Nooooooo.  Not CA.  If there are issues, it is much harder to unglue.  I recommend regular wood glue, but holding in place until it sets.  I find that my hands are the best clamps I have.  Its a bit tedious, but you can hold it whilst watching TV.

Jerry,
    What is/are the issue(s) with the frames?  Bad angle?  Too wide?

Sadly so.  We are still hiding from COVID.

The Nautical Research Guild website has posted that the 2023 and 2024 annual conferences have been canceled.