Siggi52
-
Posts
985 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Events
Everything posted by Siggi52
-
Hello, Mark, yes that where canvas screens. After the establishment of cabins from 1757, printed in Laverys book Ship of the line II at page 177: ...the wardroom is parted off by a bulkhead across the ship,...and from hence to the stern a space enclosed on each side (for three of (or?) four berths) by canvas hanging loosely before it like a curtain, or laced above and below with a parting in the middle of each berth to go in and out, and to roll up in the daytime when not wanted. ... Here you must know that canvas in those times was linen and not cotton, but for us it would't be important. At an other place in the book ( page 140) he quotes: ... Within the walls, wich are of painted canvas, are the cabins of six officers; the center of the room is occupied by the mess table; ... he did't say from wich period this text is. Painted canvas? The next question But also in these berth you have to store a cannon, or not. Druxey, I did't understand that joke. A warship with a peace time arrangement just before the Napoleonic Wars! „Join the navy and cruise the Mediterranean Sea? If you see a french ship, you could shoot at them, have fun.“ Attached is a picture from the prospect. You are here the expert, as I learned. But then you should't use the words perhaps, may be, could be, vielleicht, could work, eventuell &c. not so often. Only to the paneling of the captains cabin you have a iron fast viewpoint and I'm not sure if you are right with that. Regards, Siggi
-
Hello, it is done, the pantry is ready. The louvered windows where a fine puzzle with 1000 parts , but at least I got it. This morning I build the bulwark and tomorrow the doors will follow. At last two pictures with a cannon. One the normal way to store the cannon and one with the cannon alongside the wall. The question is not answered how the did it. At least there is no other way possible then to store the cannons here along the wall. But then is there the second question, is there anywhere a description how they did it, ore could I act there as I think it would work. I remember that I somewhere read, but I did't know where and could't find it again, that they store the cannons from the captains rooms somewhere outside his cabins. I do not think that they bring them into the hold as Hutchinson wrote. That I think, would be a greater action and in the case of making ready for a fight, was not acceptable. May be they brought all the cannons out of the ward room. I found a plan at the side of the NMM of a ward room where they had 4 ore 5 cabins behind the bulwark and that was't possible with the cannons still there. But I could't find that plan again. But I found this plan of the Ajax. Here the partitions of the cabins are left and right of the ports. But with cannons it would't work. If I place a cannon right behind the bulwark, then her muzzle (ore back) will go behind the port into the next cabin. Here no cannon could stay. And the first lieutenant would have problems in his cabin to reach the outside gallery. But it's some time left till I have to make a decision, may be some one knows more about this. Regards, Siggi
- 451 replies
-
- 11
-
-
Hello, the pantry is so far ready. Tomorrow I will see what I could do with the windows and make some small repairs and corrections. If you are wondering why the stanchions have so white feet, I made a whole new set of deck beams with 1,5 mm more bent. I made the template for them, when I made the beams for the orlop, but why they are wrong, I don't know. The underside of the template was ok! Regards, Siggi
- 451 replies
-
- 16
-
-
Hello Mark, life would't be so interesting if there where no problems to solve. Your parts are looking great. I think, I turned mine, "at the great lathe" and made then the center parts, all by hand! I did't have such nice machines then you have. The cannons where my test if I could do such small things. Since I have to wear glasses, it's not so easy for me and for these small things I have to wear extra strong glasses! Because of the flying parts in your shop. I think I have one of these black holes in my cellar that sucks up parts or whole universes. Parts disappears before they hit the ground! It's very mysterious. May be they are now somewhere behind the Mars ;-) Best Regards, Siggi
-
Hello Mark, what is that for a pewter with a melting point between 525 and 650K! Pewter has a melting point by 505,08K (231,93°C). Lead has a melting point by 600,61K (327,43°C). So, when your alloy is 92% pewter, 2% antimony (has the same effect as bismuth), what is the rest? Mostly lead. I would say, go to your local muzzleloader supplier or the internet and buy you a melting station. They are not so expensive, it must not be the best one and you have always similar temperatures. Look for one that has the sprout a little higher, so that you could hold your mould under it. You could work also continually and have not to look in which hand to held the torch and the ladle or where to lay it down, because it is all hot! This are not the only cannons you have to cast. When you are ready, you could sell the station as antic at eBay Regards, Siggi
-
Hello, today I build only that stairway and this time without any trouble! The last time my table saw made trouble. Made in Germany is't anymore what it should be. Especially when you buy one without having a long meeting with your bank! Because this is the stairway the lieutenants take when going to the captain, I made it a little more fancy. Tomorrow I will go and buy more pear wood. The next thing would be then the bulwark and the pantry. Regards, Siggi
- 451 replies
-
- 15
-
-
Good morning Mark, I think they panted all things. I'm working in this case mostly after this model of the Royal George. At this model they painted the running surfaces of the wheels black. I don't think that this are iron hoopes, but only for the optic effect, so I left it. This picture is from the Medway, 1742. Here the wheels are painted brown. This a ship from the 1720, all is painted brown. I think that most of the models not always painted after the original ships. Best examples are the white stanchions, wheels and window frames, because they are made from bone. Many parts made from brass, original made from iron and therefore painted black, are left in brass and so on. In this case you have to make a decision if you would build a shipyard or original model. Because I do not really know what to do with the cannons, I'm working at the moment at the stanchions and gratings. Regards, Siggi
-
Thank you Carl, Goggle must be red hot, because I searched also for the last days. I found also some more old books online, but nothing to the interior. What I'm wondering about this and other things is, there must exist photos of these ships, not from the 1760th but from the 1800th. I saw photos from ships as early as 1861 under full sails! Did no one take pictures of the inside? The captain and his staff in gala &c. And all these training ships for the youth. Did no one made a picture. I saw some, but all on deck. Regards, Siggi
-
Hello, now the beams for the quarter deck are ready and at there place. When I'm right, there are no carlings and ledges to be build for the quarter deck. But a lot of knees In the NMM I saw, that here stanchions are only under every second beam. Is there a special order under which? And the great question with the cannons is not solved till now. Did really no one knows anything about this? At least I'm building as I think it could have been. An other question in this case is, did they store the accessories for the cannons also in the cabins, or in the hold? Many thanks in advance, Siggi
-
Hello Daniel, you wrote at the beginning of this threat: First try with integrated guns was not successful either, just worked for the gunner´s cabin. Should the guns be placed in an fore-aft direction like in the ward room? That is the question I have now, how did they arrange the guns in the ward room? It did't work so as Lavery wrote it, as you could see in the picture. So if you know something about this, I would be very glad to hear about it. Regards, Siggi
-
Hello, Mark you wanted a picture with the table and benches. So over the weekend I build them. At picture one you could see the version the french used after Jean Boudriot. They run the cannons out and closed the port with two half port who had a hole for the cannon in the middle. And so it would look with the guns stored in there normal position with the muzzles against the upper sill of the gun port. The white paper stripes are the wings of the doors. You see there is not much room to go between the cannons and the pantry. When then also the canvas for the cabins is there stretched out, you could go only sidewards and the door is blocked! And that is my solution for this case. The cannons are stored sidewards agains the walls. Then the cabins are large enough and you could walk normal into the ward room. Also for the table and benches is enough space to walk around them. I'm searched the whole weekend, but could't find anything about this case. So, if there is someone who knows more about this, your answer is welcome. Regards, Siggi
-
Mark, the pantry is 2 m broad and Robin, I have bookmarked the side. Siggi
-
Hello, Druxey, there are only 18 pounders of 9 feet recorded (Lavery, for 1761 and 1812). The 12 pounders have a long and short version. What I'm puzzle about, what have corner stones (quoins) to do with cannons or cannon ports? Or did you mean tampions (a wooden stopper for the muzzle of a gun). Mark, there would be enough space for firing the cannons. They where allowed to roll so far back, that the muzzle would be 50 cm inside of the ship and then also the last cannons would't meet in the middle. That the bulwark and even the pantry, in the case of a fight, would be stowed in the cellar is not the question. The question is, how did they arrange the cabins and cannons when not fighting. The doors are swinging backwards and I don't think that they build doors just for the optic. Some ships have doors only at one side. The only solution is the version in the last picture. The cannons where stored along the walls. Then you could stretch the canvas walls for the cabins and could use both doors. I worked a little this morning. The highs are not to scale, but you can see that even a cod (1,90 m long) find place in this arrangement. And most important, the officers could dine and party with enough space Robin, many thanks for this hint. But it says nothing to this problem, except that there is no rule when the weather is rough. So the question remains, how did they handle that? And when they did it as I think, how did they secure the cannons? Regards, Siggi
-
Hello Druxey, that is the version in the first two pictures. But then you would have only 50 cm between the cannon and the pantry and the doors are useless because the cabin would close the way. The space between the last two cannons would be c. 2 m! That is the dilemma. Siggi
-
Hello, I need some help from the experts. When looking at Lavery's plan for the wardroom in his Bellona book, it's looking quiet easy. In reality it is't so. When I arrange the cannons as usual, it would look so: The large paper in the middle is the pantry, the small stripe the bulwark and the scribing on it , the doors. Lavery had the muzzles of the cannons within the gun ports. That would look so: I arrange the pictures so that you could better see the difference. The small wood stripes are the outline of the cabins. When I lower the cannon muzzles down, I could earn 5 mm/ 25 cm more. But also then is the passage between the pantry and the cabin only 75 cm in reality. The smallest part of the open space would be nearly 2,60 m wide. There is just enough space for a table and benches on both sides. What I did't like on these two versions is, that the cannon muzzles rest against the port lids. Or did they store the cannons at the walls? But then is there no more space in the cabins. It is't very high there under the beams. The cabin in front of the bulwark at Lavery's plan I would skip. I think Lavery used the decks plan and did't think about the fact, that the walls there rapidly go inside. Also is the decks plan at the bulwark 10 mm broader then my ship and also the body plan and so Lavery's plan. Many thanks in advance, Siggi
- 451 replies
-
- 12
-
-
Hello, I could't see it any longer, this little door to the side gallery. First a picture of the plan with the door I build first. Here you could see also that the doors at the quarter deck are even smaller (25mm =1,20m). But these openings I build larger, I cut there the deck clamp because above is no cannon deck. At the Superb they cut the lover deck clamp and so I did now the same. When I build this part of the ship, I had't these pictures. Here we can see, that even the original draughts not always right. At this plan the quarter deck has the lowest high after the orlop deck! The sheer plan shows the, I think, correct highs of all decks. But before I realized that, I had cut the cannon ports. At last, the shipwright had to build a ship that was functional. So with sharp chisels and a saw blade I enlarged the openings and build a new door. With these two pictures I would show, that above is no more space to enlarge the openings. Regards, Siggi
-
Hello, while I brewed yesterday a good stoud for the workers, they painted the back of the upper gun deck. I build the door for the side galleries after the plan, it's in reality 1.35 m high! Behind that door it goes a real step down. It's only something for artist and nothing for me And because the gun deck is now ready, I made the official pictures. When I saw the first picture, there comes the question, what did you do against dust. Regards, Siggi
- 451 replies
-
- 15
-
-
David, for most parts of the ship I used black alder, only for the carvings boxwood and for the decks pear. My turnings I made with maple, but the soft sort without curl. I tried for the bench boxwood and for the hood pear, but I think I would use for further panelings pear. Yes I'm busy, but the weather outside made it possible. It is wet, cold and often stormy, in my basement it is dry and warm Regards, Siggi
-
Hello, the workers where busy and have already planked the deck and the walls. Today they have build the bench seat and the hood for the rudder at the stern of the upper gun deck. Regards, Siggi
-
Hello, just to show you the now ready capstans. The workers meanwhile are busy and started planking the deck. The waterways and spirketting are ready. The spirketting for the starboard side is frech painted, so it has to wait until tomorrow. Regards, Siggi
- 451 replies
-
- 12
-
-
I have found it, what ship it is above. No. SLR0440 of the NMM http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66401.html a 70-gun, two-decker ship of the line (circa 1730). Then they had't a pawl ring and I think no pawls at the lower capstan. Siggi
-
Robin, sitting at the sofa, having a beer after work, a cat at my knees, then I have time to think. I think yes they used both capstans. They had not only to remove the pillars at the gun deck, but also at the upper gun deck. So these capstans would be useless if they could't do that. For that short time, even when that are hours, it would't harm the ship, or they made something totally wrong. That is Mini, she was the model for the rudder chewing cat at the stern Regards, Siggi
-
Mark, I found it between the forecastle pictures. I had overseen it too. Druxsey, I have build now for both capstans long pawls, because at the Bellona picture the pawls look also longer then I have seen them normally. I have an other picture, ok without any pawls. My friend took this picture 2 years ago and all I know is, that it should be a 70 gun ship in the NMM. Here we see that the fore capstan has a round plinth (I don't know if this is also a partner?) If it is a ship of the 1790th there could be a pawl ring, if not there will be no pawls at the lover capstan. I think it could be so, that the fore capstan is mainly worked from the upper drum. Here they could see what actually happens and could also work the pawls when needed. Only when there is a heavier load to manage, they would manner the lover drum. At the aft capstan it would be the same, only when the get in the anchor, the lover capstan would be the commando centrum and then they would use also the lover pawls. Ronin, I'm sorry, but that I did't know. Regards, Siggi
-
druxey, if the pawls would be only at the upper capstan, that long extension at the partner would't be necessary. I found a picture of the gun deck of the Ajax 1767, here you can see the pawls, the long version (!), at the aft capstan. The fore capstan seems to have non, or they are lost here. Then I looked again through the pictures Mark send me from the Bellona and I found one where you could see also at the upper capstan pawls. So I think I could build pawls at every capstan. Regards, Siggi
-
Mark, I think that was not the problem. There are enough gratings around. But if one accidentally kicked it in! In my case, if they use only the upper drum, one man could stay at the lover capstan for that purpose. I don't know. Siggi
Our Emblem ®
