Louie da fly

Looking great! I'm jealous of this wonderfully planked and framed hull. Will the frame still be visible once the ship gets a deck?

Unfortunately, once the ceiling planks, decks and half-decks are installed, very little of the frames will be visible. Can't be helped. I am debating whether to fill the hold with amphorae which were found in situ at the excavation.
Cheers
Dick

You've done a beautiful job of modifying the capstan Jeff.Looks really good - a bit shiny at the moment, but the matt varnish should take care of that.

Beautiful job, Jeff. Not only the paint job under the waterline (which looks really good to me), but the rest of the hull as well. A seriously attractive model.

If not a beam, what about a 'lead' block on a strop or pendant Steven?  Is there anything back there to attach one to?  Welcome to my world
 
cheers
 
Pat

Looking good. I agree about the little stands supplied with the kits. A while ago one of our members spent a long time restoring a big model of a steamship for a museum. The ship had turned turtle on its stand and crashed to the floor, with horrible results. Anything that can be done to avoid that is worthwhile in my book.

Making slow but steady progress. Seems to be going well so far, and you're overcoming obstacles as you come to them.
 
What kind of glue are you using?

I thought of that, Phil. Unfortunately there's nowhere to put one without it getting in the way.
 
Druxey, that was terrible (but in a good way) . Yes, whatever else, if I install a windlass in a future build I'll have a better idea of how it all works in relation to everything else. I have to say I'm learning a lot. They reckon that the best way to avoid Oldtimer's disease is to create lots of new neural pathways by doing and learning new things. At this rate, I'll never get it.

What's wrong with these photos?
 
                    
 
For those who answered "the anchor cable is at the wrong angle to the windlass" go to the top of the class. And there's no way I can move the windlass to change the angle - there's no room. Looks like I won't be using the windlass for the anchors after all (sigh). Oh, well -the crew will just have to rely on brute force to raise the anchors.

While I'm thinking about the anchors, I'm also working on the side-rudders (steering oars if you prefer) .
 
I'd originally intended to attach the rudders to the lower through-beam on each side, but I realised it wouldn't be able to pivot upwards if I did, so I used the upper beam instead. So I had to cut a hole in the planking on top of the support structure,  for the rope that fixes the rudder to the beam.
 

 
The rope allows the rudder to pivot around its vertical axis (for steering), and with a bit of luck it will also allow it to swing upwards out of the way when only one rudder is in use. The kind of lashing or whatever that was used is (of course) unknown, so I'm going with the theoretical one from the TAMU paper "The Development of the Rudder, 100-1600 A.D.: A Technological Tale"  by Lawrence V. Mott ( https://nautarch.tamu.edu/academic/alum.htm) to see if it works.
 
I drilled a hole in each rudder and inserted a brass pin.
 

 
and a corresponding hole in the upper beam on each side of the ship
 

 
Here are the rudders dry fitted
 
 
        
 
 
There is only one Byzantine picture that shows a tiller on a side rudder:
 

 
I'm probably going to copy that for my own. To get the tillers at the right height I put the steersman in place next to one rudder and marked where the hole for the tiller would have to be.
 
        
 

 
Note that I haven't yet finished the steersman's arms - I'm holding off till the tillers are in place. I wasn't sure if I wanted one tiller to be swung up out of the way, but I think it'll look better with them both in operation. Which means I have to carve another steersman. 

Dislodging the anchor could be done by "sailing (or rowing!) it out". Yes, maybe the windlass wasn't really needed . . . But it does look good, and I think I will wind one anchor cable around it, if only for the look of the thing.
 
And I'm sure there'd be plenty of other jobs on board ship that could need the windlass's help (such as Mark's suggestion of using it to raise the masts). 
 
 
Thanks very much. And thanks everybody for all the likes -they are much appreciated. It's getting to the point where I can actually see the end in sight. Still quite a bit to be done, but there's definitely a light at the end of the tunnel (I hope it's not an approaching train!)

Apart from the awning over the poop deck and the steering oars, everything's pretty much done except for the fiddly stuff.
 
    
 
Mark, the anchors ranged from 47 to 67 kg (103 - 147 pounds). Probably two or three people could haul one up without a windlass, but this isn't something I'm qualified to comment on. Any ideas on whether this is too heavy to be hauled up by hand and would have needed a windlass instead?
 
But yes, it could certainly be used to raise and lower the masts as well.   

I'm working on putting the anchors in place. Here's a test placement (disregard the way I've tied the rope that fishes the anchor - it's just to keep it in place for the time being).
 

 
I'm not sure what I need to do with the anchors and windlass - are the anchor cables supposed to be attached to the windlass when the ship is sailing, or is that only for when she's raising the anchors? And if the cable isn't attached to the windlass when under way, what should it be attached to? Should it be tied to (say) the peribolos (pseudo-cathead) and then coiled on the deck? Or what?
 
I suspect this isn't the way anchors were dealt with in later ships and that may introduce uncertainty, but any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Er, yes. I really don't think I'll try that at this stage of the build.
 

Thanks everybody.
 
Sceatha, I might just leave it as is. As I've already installed the ropes, I might do more harm than good trying to wax them (wax on - wax off!). It's a shame about the fluffy texture, but it shows up more on the photos than in real life.

Hmm, I'll have to do some thinking about that. I've already (unfortunately, as it now turns out) used beeswax on the shrouds. We'll just have to see how they last.
 
In the meantime,  I've made a flagpole,
 

 

 
cut a hole in the deck for it and installed it. Note that the flagpole had to go one side of the ship's "tail".
 
 
      
 
   
 
The flag is cotton fabric which I painted with acrylic, so thickly that it's been integrated into the fabric itself. That gave it the stiffness that allowed me to introduce some "flutter" into it. 
 
    
 

 
and some more work on the rigging. Coils of rope for the "free ends" of the shroud tackle (left) and the halyard tackle (right - hanging on the mast crutch)
 
     
 

 
Blocks for the halyard trusses (which hold the yard to the mast):
 

 
and I added an eyebolt to secure the tackle for it on the foremast.
 

 
But when I tried to make a hole for an eyebolt for the after mast . . . . !!!
 

 
I cut a new piece to fill the gap - allowing for a hole for the second eyebolt. I'm letting it dry then I'll put in the eyebolt.
 
In the meantime, here's the tackle for the fore halyard truss - the fixed end tied to the eyebolt and the free end attached to the cleat on the mast. Just waiting for the glue to dry.
 

 
And here's the upper end of the tackle, showing the block in place.
 

 
 
 

I've been looking at what happens to the free end of the ropes for the blocks etc I've been working on so far. Normally there'd be a coil to take up the surplus rope at the end. I've tried making a coil copying a technique used by others on MSW but it's pretty difficult if I'm making it out of the surplus rope at the free end. I think it's probably better to just make separate coils and attach them to make it look like they're part of the main rope.
 
Wrapping the free end around the end of a pen and gluing the coils together (later I had to remove the grey hair that had somehow got itself mixed up with the coil).
 
         
 
Then I added an extra bit of cord to simulate the bit that winds around the coil to keep it in shape. And a clothes-peg to hold it all together till the glue dried.
 
          
 
 
        
 
And the coil in place next to the oarsman in green. Note also the free end of the vang being held by the standing crewman. My understanding is that it would just lie there on the deck until the operation was over, then be coiled up properly.
 

 
And another bit of housework - the free ends of the robands and gaskets were sticking out at all angles - a combination of the springiness of the cotton thread and the presence of random dabs of the glue I used to hold them to the yard. They should be hanging down under gravity. So I've started glueing them in a "natural" position. The left-hand photo is "before", the right-hand isn't so much "after" as "during". The 5th and 7th ties from the end of the yard show the difference. A lot to do here - it'll take a while.
 
   

I've been having a few problems with the rigging - particularly with belaying points, but I'm making slow but steady progress. My original idea for the foretacks was to run each one to a turn around a "bollard" on the forecastle which acted as a fairlead, to a point aft of the mast so the yard could be pulled back behind the mast when tacking.
 

 

 
Only problem was - it wouldn't have worked (which I realised when I was in bed, where all one's best ideas arrive - usually at some ungodly hour of the morning). I had run the tack under the benches would have made it impossible to pull the yard back.
 
So I re-ran the tacks, still with a turn around the "bollard", but then outside the shrouds. (The clothes-peg is just holding the rope in place while the glue dries on the bollard.)
 
 

 

 

 
Fixed the "bitter end" around an upright of the pavesade aft of the mast, and tied off the free end to the pavesade rail nearby.
 
Then the vangs. One end of the port vang is fixed around an oarbench, the other to the rail of the pavesade. The starboard vang is still loose:
 

 
And both fore-vangs tied off:
 
      
 
Now for the after yard. I added the crewmen hauling up the yard:
 
  
 
Unfortunately the rope they're all holding just couldn't be a straight line due to the one of the guys standing on the hatch cover. In the real world they would have adjusted their grip to allow for that. Not so easy with carved figures . . . However, it's a small issue and I'm not going to bother about it. I know about it, and now you do as well - but I doubt anyone else will ever notice . . .
 
Here all the ropes for the yard are loose - bosun very unhappy.
 

 
So I put the fellow in yellow to work, holding the port tack so the yard doesn't swing around as it's raised. Sorry about the picture quality.
 

 
The other tack will be loose, as will the vangs, as the yard is in the process of being raised. 
 
Now I'm trying to work out how to produce a natural catenary curve in the loose ropes. Cotton thread is "springy" and doesn't naturally fall into such a curve. I'm experimenting with wetting the thread and with soaking it with a weak solution of PVA (white) glue. But if anyone can make suggestions or has been in the same position I'd be grateful for advice.
 
 
 

All the shields of the port side are in place. Check the sixteenth and seventeenth rowers, Boxbuilds!
 

 

 
And I've finally glued the xylokastra (wooden castles) into position.
 

Thanks everybody for the likes.
 
Me too  . (Plus a chance to show off my heraldic knowledge . . .)
 
 
More a labour of having painted myself into a corner . . . once I'd carved the figures to go on the poop I was committed to having oarsmen. Then when I discovered I couldn't cast them in resin within any sort of reasonable budget - and knowing I had a lot of free pear wood - I was committed. There were certainly times when I regretted ever starting on them . . . 
 
However, I actually do enjoy carving - I just wasn't expecting to have to do so much of it . . .
 
 
Ha, ha. Funny man . . . Should I mention that there are no port side shields in the photo, or would that spoil the joke? 

PhilB that's a whole subject in itself, which others know a lot more about than I do. Apparently there were tables for how thick a rope should be for a particular job - obviously the mainstay had to be thicker than the mizzen stay because the load was greater.
 
You might try a search for rope thickness or size, or something of the sort in the Search function at the top of the MSW page. Or else look through the "Masting Rigging and Sails" section. Or if all else fails, put an info request up in the same section. Then you'd need to convert rope size (which is measured as the circumference, not the diameter) to thread weight at the scale you're working in.
 
But that was for the Great Days of sail - the 18th and 19th centuries. There are naturally no tables from the Middle Ages. For my build I got quite a few thicknesses of thread and just chose a thickness that looked "right" for the job it had to do, and I suggest you do the same.
 
 
Aaah, you're thinking of Western Europe, where the so-called "coat of arms" was on the shield, on the clothes, on the horse-trapper, sometimes even on the helmet, such as in these renditions of Diepold von Schweinspeunt (Note the wild boar emblem as a pune or play on words on the name Schweinspeunt)
 
  
 
from the Liber ad Honorem Augusti (Italy under Emperor Frederick II) c. 1195
 
The Byzantines didn't get involved with all that sissy stuff . . . 

Dark rope is "tarred" - standing rigging was often coated with tar to preserve it. Running rigging couldn't be, because it had to run through blocks etc - tar would make the rope stiff, and also build up on the things it rubbed against (like the blocks).

Well as I mentioned before, I've re-jigged the blocks at the bottom of the shrouds. Naturally enough, since I was shortening the block assembly, the shrouds needed to be longer so I had to replace them. I was lucky enough that one shroud in each set could be re-used, and that I seemed to have enough dyed cord to make the rest. Until the last moment, when I discovered I was one shroud short!
 
The existing shrouds are darkened to look like tarred cordage. I dyed another lot of cord, having to re-insert it into the dye bath three times to get the colour to match . Of course as soon as I'd finished, I discovered I actually had just enough of the old cord to do all the shrouds after all. Ah, well, at least I've got some nice dark cord that I can use for other things. Here is the ship with shrouds undone and incidentally the yards lowered to allow new shrouds to be installed. The bosun is going to be in big trouble from the captain for that horrible raffle on deck.
 

 
 Here is the new, shorter, block arrangement. (Sorry about the vagueness of the photos - I don't know what went wrong the day I took them). I'd originally put cleats inside the hull walls to belay the downhauls - I'd used modern cleats because none have been found in archaeology but I really wasn't happy with them. Then when it came to it I found it was much easier and probably more sensible to belay them to the oarbenches. At least as strongly fixed as a cleat and much more convenient to use. You'll note small clothes-pegs hanging from the sides of the ship - they're holding the downhauls in tension while the glue dries. After that I removed the pegs and tied off the downhauls. That raffle of unsecured ropes is getting gradually less. The bosun will be happy.
 
  
 
    
 
After I'd replaced the shrouds my lovely (and observant) wife, all unsuspecting, pointed out that the after yard was hoisted inside the shrouds (instead of outside where it should have been). Oops. So I had to loosen off the tacks which I'd temporarily tied up, undo the toggle that held the yard to the halyard, and take the halyard off and re-set it outside the shrouds. I'm very glad she noticed it. It would have been murder to fix it later in the build.  
 
And here is the after yard in its correct place - you can see the toggle which joins the halyard to the yard itself, as well as the trozza (truss) that holds the yard to the mast.
 
  
 
 
 

 
  
 
 

 
The guy lying on the deck isn't dead. He's "in storage" - when the four guys are put in place hauling up the yard he'll be holding the tack to keep the yard under control.
 
To provide belaying points for the ropes of the after lateen sail (tacks and vangs) I need to install the xylokastra (wooden castles). But first I have to add the shields to the pavesade - the castles would make it impossible to reach in and tie off the ropes holding the shields on.
 
In an earlier post I showed the ochanos (straps) at the back of the shield. To hold each shield in place I tied a piece of cotton sewing thread (to resemble rope, same as I've been using for the rigging) through the ochanos and around the railing and each upright of the pavesade, then added a dab of glue to make it permanent. That holds it fairly securely, though I may also glue the bottoms of the shields in place to stop them from flapping around.
 
Here are the shields about half-way installed on the starboard side:
 

 

 
And here's the starboard side complete.
 

 

 
 
It's nice after having painted all these shields some months ago and having had them in storage all this time, to finally be able to put them in place. I'm pretty happy with the way they look. Certainly makes the ship look more colourful.
 

Well, I wasn't satisfied with the shrouds, so I've re-done the blocks. The problem was that the block assembly took up too much room compared with the length of the shrouds themselves - like having a hammer with a huge head and too short a handle - no good (unless you're Thor, of course).
 
Here is the "old" way
 

 
and the new
 

 
As you can see the "tails" below the single block and above the double block are considerably shorter, making the whole assembly maybe a centimetre (just under 1/2") shorter (about half a metre or 1'7" in full scale). As it turns out it didn't make as much difference to the overall look of the things as I'd expected - in the photo below the shrouds for the after mast have been changed and those on the foremast haven't -
 

 
but I'm still glad I did it - I would have been unhappy with it if I hadn't. 
 
I've also finished the banner. Unfortunately because I'd put down a white undercoat I had to paint both sides and they didn't quite line up when I cut the banner out - so I ended up having to paint the overlapped bits to get rid of the white. A fair bit of work, but I'm pretty happy with it now.
 

 
I've also finished the anchors, which have been sitting there incomplete for quite a while: I needed to add the rings and make a couple of extra stocks. These anchors are taken from those of the Serce Limani "glass wreck" which went down in about 1025 AD, pretty much contemporary with this dromon.
 

 
And I've done a trial run on how I'm going to fix the shields to the pavesade  - the railing that supports them. Byzantine shields were held by a pair of ropes attached to the back, called an ochanos.
 

 
Here's mine - I had to use CA to get them to stick to the paint at the back of the shield. I drew the line at putting tiny metal rings on the back (and anyway, most contemporary pictures don't show them). I didn't quite get the ropes symmetrical about the centre, but I'm not too bothered - they won't be visible anyway. I'm just chuffed that I've found a way to attach the shield that would have worked in the real world - just untie the rope and you can pick up the shield.
 

 
 
Then mounting the shield on the pavesade, with a bit of rope passing through the ochanos and tying it to the upright of the pavesade. 
 

 
And here's what it looks like from the outside.
 

 
This is just a trial run, but it seems to have worked pretty well. Now I know what to do when I add them to the ship.
 
I haven't quite finished changing the shroud blocks over. I expect to have that done by tomorrow.
 
Then tidy-up - adding downhauls for the trusses that hold the yards to the masts, belaying the downhauls for the blocks and the downhaul for the fore halyard and making a coil for the free end - working out how and where to belay the tacks, adding the vangs - oh, it's all fun and  games!

Starting on the shrouds. Because this is a mediaeval Mediterranean lateener the shrouds are fixed to the hull with pairs of blocks, not deadeyes, and they are attached to the blocks with toggles, for quick release.
 
     
 

   
 
I've also been working on the belaying points for the tacks. To allow the tacks to be belayed near the lower end of the yard, but also to enable them to be pulled back aft of the mast so the yard could be pulled the behind the mast  to the other side I'd originally intended to add modern style "open" fairleads. Mainly because I couldn't think of any other way to do it. 
 

 
But looking at modern lateeners, I found they tended to use a much simpler system for belaying - just a vertical wooden rod, basically. I adapted this for the fairleads,using what amounts to a sort of bollard - put a loop around it and it can act as a fairlead and a belaying point as you choose. You can see them sticking up from the "battlements" just at the after end of the forecastle. 
 

 
And here is the banner still in progress. One side finished:
 

 
And because I put down a coat of white first, I have to paint the other side as well, to cover up the white. A bit of overlap past the outline of the "tails" but that's intentional - this will be cut off when I trim them to shape.