Rick01
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Thanks guys - Mark after a little thought and more examination of the original model (via the photos) your idea has more merit than my first thought. Fixing through the beams would cause the gun to buck on recoil as the pressures would not be in a straight line through the centre of the gun carriage (if that makes sense). Pat - I've studied various photos of the replica and see that the companionway has no glass which does make sense - however as there are a number of other features which do not follow the original model and the plans available from Float-a-boat in Melb were based on discussions with the Tassie people (again no glass - but companionway and skylight as a single unit) I thought I'd try for a third (or more) opinion. It was the paint job replicating glass that has thrown me. However no glass makes more sense than glass so I think I'll go that way. Rick
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Anyone? Not even a guess? Rick
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I'm slowly attempting to bash a kit into the Lady Nelson using the Royal Museums Greenwich as my base model. http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66562.htmlI've arrived at a point where I need to clarify a couple of items - firstly whilst the skylight is obviously glassed in the companionway side is solid but appears to be painted as if to resemble glass. Do I glaze or not? Second item - she carried 6 guns and on the way out from England these were described as 3~4 lb brass carriage guns - this info. from various log entries (not carronades as may have been swapped in later). Given that there are no gunwales would they have been secured with ringbolts through the deck (answer seems yes but I'm just checking :-) ). For locals seeing this post - I've seen and have copies of the Float-a-boat plans, these however do deviate from the original model layout and the various paintings/engravings out there all seem to be copies of the original of her in the Thames. This however is problematical as it was published in 1803 when she had already been in in Aus for some time. Rick
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Crows nest/cross trees 18th Century Brig
Rick01 replied to Rick01's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
OK now I understand it better, I read Allan's post before having my morning coffee!!! The Lady Nelson plan also helps and that together with a search of the forum for pictures of these on other brigs of the same period have pretty well solved my problem. Thanks guys Rick -
Crows nest/cross trees 18th Century Brig
Rick01 replied to Rick01's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Sorry Allan - badly worded request on my part. :-( I was actually asking about the crows nest/cross trees themselves. Masts are sorted and the brig was built in the UK in 1799 and then sailed to Aus in 1800. Rick -
I'm slowly bashing a cutter into the Australian Brig "Lady Nelson" and am currently working on the masts. Is there a formula (or set of dimensions) that set the size of of these. Side views obviously only give me the length but no clues as to widths. Rick
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Here's my finished product http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/gallery/member/15284-rick01/ -a little different to the kit but not hard to achieve. Main differences being rigging and position of deck furnishings. Yell if you want to talk about any of it. I'm only a first time builder but happy to help if I can. Rick
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For lack of any other reply I should add that I used a three plank pattern with the planks being 120mm long which visually seemed OK. Rick
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If you search "Mermaid" you'l find a couple of builds plus a few queries that I've made regarding accuracy (or not) of the plans supplied. Before you fit the bulwarks be very careful as two of us have had a problem here which I later solved - "there is a 2mm difference in height one end to the other for the bulwarks and although the fit appears better with the high end to the bows it should in fact have the lower end to the bows thus allowing the extra room in the bow keel for the required drill holes. The instructions just say "identify and fit" no mention of the 2mm difference - I did point this out to the manufacturer and was told that they'd fix this in their next review." Rick
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Tadeusz, thanks for your answer re shrouds and the reference book "Historic Ship Models" by Wolfram zu Mondfeld. This will help me immensely. Rick
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Is there a rule/formula to give the number of shrouds required for any given mast? I'm looking at illustrations of HM Lady Nelson and a contemporaneous model on NMM clearly shows five including a possible backstay whilst an engraving at about the same period seems to indicate seven with possible backstays included. Rick
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Thanks again Brian - if/when I start I'll give you a heads-up. Rick
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- Lady Nelson
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Lady Nelson
Rick01 replied to Rick01's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
Hi John - yes I was aware how different she was having seen both the engraving and the contemporary hull model in the NMM. I'm off to Float-a-Boat next week so I'll have a look at their plans then. I'll just have to assume that the cannons referred to were the equivalent of 3 lb'ers. Interestingly the NMM model has a railing fore and aft rather than the full bulwarks shown on the engraving - wonder which was correct as the model is of her as fitted for the Aus. voyage. Rick -
I'm about to start an attempt to lightly bash the Amati "Lady Nelson" into the Australian "Lady Nelson". NMM have a good contemporary model of the hull http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66562.htmland I have copies of the plans used to build one of the replicas. I'm starting to research the fittings and need a little help with the cannons - her log book states that she was fitted with "2 brass carriage guns" with a further 4 added before she sailed for Aus. No mention of size however - I'm guessing that as she was an exploration vessel they would have been 3~4 lb cannon. Can anyone comment here giving me an idea of the relevant dimensions of them and how they would have been mounted as the model shows a low railing rather than a heavier bulwark to which they could have been braced. Thanks in advance Rick
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One last question - was the "depth" measured including gunwales? If so can you give me the depth of the gunwales please. The other measurements are actually near as damn it correct for the Australian Lady Nelson if modelled at 1/54 so bashing may not be that hard given how close the hull appears. Rick
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Thanks Brian - it looks as if the model is actually slightly larger that the Australian ship which at 1/64 would measure 26 cm length and 8.45 cm beam. This is an idea that I'm working on slowly but I don't think it's insurmountable. Rick
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Hi Brian - I'm contemplating building the Australian "Lady Nelson" which is a two masted brig (cutter conversion per NMM). To see if this kit is readily usable as a base I wonder if you could give me the actual dimensions of the kit hull i.e. length, beam and depth. I've the figures for the original and just need to see how much work is needed to fiddle with the hull. Thanks in advance. Rick
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HM Mermaid jackyard set flying with the gaff topsail
Rick01 replied to Rick01's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
Looking at the sketch again and in particular the slack line you have noted, is this a possibility? The line is fixed at the gaff peak and runs up and through a block on the yard then down to the deck, when she changes tack the line is then hauled in causing the peak of the yard to drop sufficiently to swing the whole assembly round the mast before being loosened again. This would then explain why it appears without tension in the sketch. Rick -
HM Mermaid jackyard set flying with the gaff topsail
Rick01 replied to Rick01's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
It's even more confusing for an absolute amateur! The "artist" was actually the captain who sailed this cutter around Australia for about 4 years and would have known his ship pretty well one would expect. However as I am rigging the model without sails my main concern is with the lifting rigging. Both the illustration I have provided and another sketch of her actually under sail seem to indicate that the lower corner of the sail is actually attached (via a loop possibly) to the peak of the gaff. If so then no block on the gaff, as King seems accurate with his rigging/blocks etc. in other respects I had assumed that the sail was attatched to and hoist with the gaff. The Mermaid was only a small cutter 17 metres stem to stern, beam 5.6 metres and weighing in at 84 ton. Rick -
I understand that the jackyard would not appear unless the topsail was being set, however I assume that at least some running rigging would be attached to the topmast at all times, specifically a halyard running through a block at the top of the mast. My question is - when not in use how is this halyard secured? Is it hooked to an eye bolt on the upper mast cap or run down to the deck and secured similarly there (this would entail a hell of a lot of excess rope 2 x total masts height). Sorry if I'm not using correct terminology but I'm still learning. http://www.acmssearch.sl.nsw.gov.au/search/itemLargeCopyright.cgi?itemID=921633&size=full&album=1&collection=823393&parent=442570 Rick
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Having just finished a build of this model I can add a comment for others - page 13 of this build mentions that there is a problem with bulwarks/ bow " I have added my cap rails and extensions.. I am a bit dissapointed my keel at bow seems to have fallen a bit short of where it should be.. Stern could be a bit higher above rails also. I dont know how that happened,". I had exactly the same problem and brought it up with the manufacturer, basically was told it was my fault even though I'd followed the instruction sheet as well as possible. So I went back to basics and rechecked all my work and still couldn't see where I'd gone wrong. Final ting was to check measurements - low and behold - there is a 2mm difference in height one end to the other for the bulwarks and although the fit appears better with the high end to the bows it should in fact have the lower end to the bows thus allowing the extra room in the bow keel for the required drill holes. The instructions just say "identify and fit" no mention of the 2mm difference - I did point this out to the manufacturer and was told that they'd fix this in their next review. Rick
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Regretfully, if the Brig Mermaid is any guide then the ship's boats will be plastic and the keel stem and stern posts ply needing to be "planked". Rick
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Love to Brian but I'm afraid my night driving days (bad joke here) are over at the moment. Come daylight saving I'll have to look at a visit as I'm pretty sure I'll still have questions at that point. Rick
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Thanks for the illustration Brian - with that and a number of other pictures I've found I've been able to work out ratios of side to width to height. However I haven't been able to find any measurements for a full size one that I can scale down. I realize that they'll vary but I'm guessing that the cabinet would stand between 900 and 1200 mm high. Can anyone confirm this for me. I can scale it down to 1/48th easily from there. Thanks Rick
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Thanks guys - I should have had a little more faith in my own instincts. I had thought of a binnacle cabinet but wondered as she was such a small ship. I'll start a search here for examples and should be able to dummy something up without too much trouble. Rick
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