Thistle17

After nearly 4 years of searching, I have finally received information on the identity of the model shown below. It was found in an antique shop in upstate NY by a member of the Modelshipwrights of Western New York much as it appears today. Sadly the member has died and I purchased it from his estate as it is a superbly built scratch model of faithful reproduction. I just could not let it fall by the wayside in the estate liquidation.
 
With the help of members of the Hampton Roads and New Jersey modelers group it was found in the National Watercraft Collection publication by Howard Chapelle. Plans (lines and deck layout) reside in the Smithsonian archives and I have requested a copy to support my restoration.
 
The pictures attached are from my cell phone and as I cannot call myself an amateur photographer they will have to do until I invest in better equipment. The pictures do not do justice to the quality of this model so I add further description.
 
The model is about 27 inches at the waterline with a breath of approximately 6 inches. Given the information in the National Watercraft Collection second edition it would be 1:24 scale as that seems to be the size of the full scale vessel or 55 feet (WL). She is constructed of boxwood.It appears to be fully ribbed internally. I might add that the model has some years of age as the wood has mellowed to a rich creamy  tan color. Everything about this model shouts it is the work of a master modeler. All planking, joinery, fittings, rigging and detail are flawlessly done. All deck fittings are scratch built from ferrous metal. All blocks and rigging treatment are of fine execution. The decking and planking is treated with simulated tree nails. The builder must have familiarized him or her self with construction details that can be found in Chapelle's e book, The Migrations of an American Boat Type, as they are so well reproduced in the model.
 
It needs some work, as in its travels some items are missing or in need of repair. These include some cabin and engine room hatches, the repair of the main well amid ship that has stared to come apart, rigging that needs repair or replacement and it sorely needs a new mounting and case.
 
I would like to document its restoration work for the sake of tje former modeler in hopes that someone out there may recognize her and possibly identify the person who built this fine model.
 
Work will begin when the Smithsonian plan shows up.
 
Joe

Kevin we were in various stages of lock down in NYS for approximately 6 months until we beat it back to a low infection rate only to have it surge again year end. The only salvation for me beyond the good company of my lovely wife was modeling. With the rollout of the vaccine in your area here is hoping life as you have known it can be returned sooner than later.
Joe

Kevin we were in various stages of lock down in NYS for approximately 6 months until we beat it back to a low infection rate only to have it surge again year end. The only salvation for me beyond the good company of my lovely wife was modeling. With the rollout of the vaccine in your area here is hoping life as you have known it can be returned sooner than later.
Joe

Things are starting to come together albeit slowly. Two orders from Syren finally landed the right size ship wheel. The 1 inch diameter wheel is most correct. Chuck tells me all is not lost having the larger wheel as it is going on the Winchelsea.
 
Secondly I had an email exchange with the Smithsonian and I should be in the queue for a drawing mailing some time next week.
 
The age of this model and any top coat of poly or whatever that was applied has given the exisiting model a rich tan patina. Just fashioning basswood replacement pieces is not going to be acceptable. Some experimenting will be in order before I go too far.
 
Joe

Another milestone of sorts (at least for me given all the other things swirling around in my life). All of the bulkheads have been dry fitted on the former. It did take more fine tuning of the bulkhead slots as they were a bit undersized and I was looking for a slip fit. As I have learned in the past if this fit is not deliberate the bulkheads tend to twist about the keel center line which in turn leads to further difficulties when installing the gun port timbers.
 
In addition I would comment on the building board. I was intrigued by a group members approach to the build platform. I adopted Rusty J's method of the build board as I felt it served my needs better. I rebuilt the right angle supports a bit longer so that they could be clamped with my clamp stock. These supports are only used on the starboard side and the clamps ensure the assembly verticality (they needed some shim build out to achieve this). Thanks for the tip Rusty!
 
As I glue these in, starting amid ships, I will turn my attention back to Cheerful inboard/deck detail while the glue dries. This model has had little attention since the Spring and is begging for forward movement.
 
I will now proceed to where many of you have already gone. You all are an inspiration to me.
Joe

Seventeen months later, where have i been! I am truly the last pony in this parade. Other projects and family life have just gotten in the way of any progress. I have just finished a major project for someone and now have to clear the decks of two and possibly three model projects (a restoration for someone, a restoration for myself and my Cheerful). But when I see the beauty of what you all are doing I feel a strong urge to "bring her down" and start the process. I need a plan or I will be logging a similar tale a year from now!

After nearly 4 years of searching, I have finally received information on the identity of the model shown below. It was found in an antique shop in upstate NY by a member of the Modelshipwrights of Western New York much as it appears today. Sadly the member has died and I purchased it from his estate as it is a superbly built scratch model of faithful reproduction. I just could not let it fall by the wayside in the estate liquidation.
 
With the help of members of the Hampton Roads and New Jersey modelers group it was found in the National Watercraft Collection publication by Howard Chapelle. Plans (lines and deck layout) reside in the Smithsonian archives and I have requested a copy to support my restoration.
 
The pictures attached are from my cell phone and as I cannot call myself an amateur photographer they will have to do until I invest in better equipment. The pictures do not do justice to the quality of this model so I add further description.
 
The model is about 27 inches at the waterline with a breath of approximately 6 inches. Given the information in the National Watercraft Collection second edition it would be 1:24 scale as that seems to be the size of the full scale vessel or 55 feet (WL). She is constructed of boxwood.It appears to be fully ribbed internally. I might add that the model has some years of age as the wood has mellowed to a rich creamy  tan color. Everything about this model shouts it is the work of a master modeler. All planking, joinery, fittings, rigging and detail are flawlessly done. All deck fittings are scratch built from ferrous metal. All blocks and rigging treatment are of fine execution. The decking and planking is treated with simulated tree nails. The builder must have familiarized him or her self with construction details that can be found in Chapelle's e book, The Migrations of an American Boat Type, as they are so well reproduced in the model.
 
It needs some work, as in its travels some items are missing or in need of repair. These include some cabin and engine room hatches, the repair of the main well amid ship that has stared to come apart, rigging that needs repair or replacement and it sorely needs a new mounting and case.
 
I would like to document its restoration work for the sake of tje former modeler in hopes that someone out there may recognize her and possibly identify the person who built this fine model.
 
Work will begin when the Smithsonian plan shows up.
 
Joe

Are the plans that good David or do you have other referencess? As I study the pictures of late, I marvel at the detail you have incorproated..
Joe

Are the plans that good David or do you have other referencess? As I study the pictures of late, I marvel at the detail you have incorproated..
Joe

Are the plans that good David or do you have other referencess? As I study the pictures of late, I marvel at the detail you have incorproated..
Joe

Seventeen months later, where have i been! I am truly the last pony in this parade. Other projects and family life have just gotten in the way of any progress. I have just finished a major project for someone and now have to clear the decks of two and possibly three model projects (a restoration for someone, a restoration for myself and my Cheerful). But when I see the beauty of what you all are doing I feel a strong urge to "bring her down" and start the process. I need a plan or I will be logging a similar tale a year from now!

Seventeen months later, where have i been! I am truly the last pony in this parade. Other projects and family life have just gotten in the way of any progress. I have just finished a major project for someone and now have to clear the decks of two and possibly three model projects (a restoration for someone, a restoration for myself and my Cheerful). But when I see the beauty of what you all are doing I feel a strong urge to "bring her down" and start the process. I need a plan or I will be logging a similar tale a year from now!

My two cents on profile scrapers. I have found that, at least on boxwood, if I create a slight burr on one side of the profile it does a better job that a cleaner or back beveled edge. I tried this as that is the way I prepare my tradional scappers for woodworking. Also I have found what works for me at least is to mill sheet material to the desired width of the molding and then create the profile on the edge and rip those off the sheet.
Joe

You have turned design for laser machining into an art form Chuck, i.e. the windlass and now the chain pump! What is next????
Joe

I have gotten better at making bands in brass. You will note the band at the step in the mast is now installed sans the eye bolts. It took two trys to get this larger band to look correctly (at least to me). I wrapped three sides tightly and then wrapped the 4th side into an overlap. The overlap was just enough to fall beyond the centerline on the 4th side. I marked that point and removed it from the mast. I then took the cutters as before and snipped the bypass/overlap just a tad more than where it landed before it was removed. I then took a flat jewelers file and tapered the cut ends to simulate a blunt end scarf joint. I then soldered this joint. It was finished with a flat file to knock down the soldered joint a bit and then drilled for the eye bolts.
 
Now i realized something today. The brass is 1/64 inch thick or approximatey 0.015. That equates to about 3/4 inch thick bands at full scale. I rather doubt they were that thick. I bet stock of 1/128 inch would have been more correct.
 
Am I obsessing? Maybe.
 
Joe

Ah now I understand. Indeed there is a bit of a gap as the solder job was not as good as I hoped. Hard to remove and redo as I started with the bottom band and worked up. As I said i got better at it as I progressed.
Joe

I have gotten better at making bands in brass. You will note the band at the step in the mast is now installed sans the eye bolts. It took two trys to get this larger band to look correctly (at least to me). I wrapped three sides tightly and then wrapped the 4th side into an overlap. The overlap was just enough to fall beyond the centerline on the 4th side. I marked that point and removed it from the mast. I then took the cutters as before and snipped the bypass/overlap just a tad more than where it landed before it was removed. I then took a flat jewelers file and tapered the cut ends to simulate a blunt end scarf joint. I then soldered this joint. It was finished with a flat file to knock down the soldered joint a bit and then drilled for the eye bolts.
 
Now i realized something today. The brass is 1/64 inch thick or approximatey 0.015. That equates to about 3/4 inch thick bands at full scale. I rather doubt they were that thick. I bet stock of 1/128 inch would have been more correct.
 
Am I obsessing? Maybe.
 
Joe

Yes Ian I was in circuit design in the 60's and 70's. We did have a drafting group that actually did PC layout. Some how I ended up with some of their tape. I also recall in the 70's watching an Intel person layout "ruby masters" for integrated circuits. My we have come a long way haven't we!
 
Glenn I did much the same and it turned out well. I have spent so much time trying to be so faithful to the model that sometimes I wonder that i move the ball forward at all.
 
Bob I wondered about that as I chose to drill small holes for the eye bolts. I believe I have even seen that at Mystic. Thanks for reminding me. Don't judge me too harshly as I am going to stay the course at this point.
 
Joe

I have gotten better at making bands in brass. You will note the band at the step in the mast is now installed sans the eye bolts. It took two trys to get this larger band to look correctly (at least to me). I wrapped three sides tightly and then wrapped the 4th side into an overlap. The overlap was just enough to fall beyond the centerline on the 4th side. I marked that point and removed it from the mast. I then took the cutters as before and snipped the bypass/overlap just a tad more than where it landed before it was removed. I then took a flat jewelers file and tapered the cut ends to simulate a blunt end scarf joint. I then soldered this joint. It was finished with a flat file to knock down the soldered joint a bit and then drilled for the eye bolts.
 
Now i realized something today. The brass is 1/64 inch thick or approximatey 0.015. That equates to about 3/4 inch thick bands at full scale. I rather doubt they were that thick. I bet stock of 1/128 inch would have been more correct.
 
Am I obsessing? Maybe.
 
Joe

I have gotten better at making bands in brass. You will note the band at the step in the mast is now installed sans the eye bolts. It took two trys to get this larger band to look correctly (at least to me). I wrapped three sides tightly and then wrapped the 4th side into an overlap. The overlap was just enough to fall beyond the centerline on the 4th side. I marked that point and removed it from the mast. I then took the cutters as before and snipped the bypass/overlap just a tad more than where it landed before it was removed. I then took a flat jewelers file and tapered the cut ends to simulate a blunt end scarf joint. I then soldered this joint. It was finished with a flat file to knock down the soldered joint a bit and then drilled for the eye bolts.
 
Now i realized something today. The brass is 1/64 inch thick or approximatey 0.015. That equates to about 3/4 inch thick bands at full scale. I rather doubt they were that thick. I bet stock of 1/128 inch would have been more correct.
 
Am I obsessing? Maybe.
 
Joe

Yes Ian I was in circuit design in the 60's and 70's. We did have a drafting group that actually did PC layout. Some how I ended up with some of their tape. I also recall in the 70's watching an Intel person layout "ruby masters" for integrated circuits. My we have come a long way haven't we!
 
Glenn I did much the same and it turned out well. I have spent so much time trying to be so faithful to the model that sometimes I wonder that i move the ball forward at all.
 
Bob I wondered about that as I chose to drill small holes for the eye bolts. I believe I have even seen that at Mystic. Thanks for reminding me. Don't judge me too harshly as I am going to stay the course at this point.
 
Joe

Yes Ian I was in circuit design in the 60's and 70's. We did have a drafting group that actually did PC layout. Some how I ended up with some of their tape. I also recall in the 70's watching an Intel person layout "ruby masters" for integrated circuits. My we have come a long way haven't we!
 
Glenn I did much the same and it turned out well. I have spent so much time trying to be so faithful to the model that sometimes I wonder that i move the ball forward at all.
 
Bob I wondered about that as I chose to drill small holes for the eye bolts. I believe I have even seen that at Mystic. Thanks for reminding me. Don't judge me too harshly as I am going to stay the course at this point.
 
Joe

Yes Ian I was in circuit design in the 60's and 70's. We did have a drafting group that actually did PC layout. Some how I ended up with some of their tape. I also recall in the 70's watching an Intel person layout "ruby masters" for integrated circuits. My we have come a long way haven't we!
 
Glenn I did much the same and it turned out well. I have spent so much time trying to be so faithful to the model that sometimes I wonder that i move the ball forward at all.
 
Bob I wondered about that as I chose to drill small holes for the eye bolts. I believe I have even seen that at Mystic. Thanks for reminding me. Don't judge me too harshly as I am going to stay the course at this point.
 
Joe

No Glenn I do not but I will share pictures with you if you would like. When I started this model I just wasn't that confident of my work. Over the past 2 years I have gotten better. Early on when i was planking her it took 3 tries on the starboard side and 2 on the port side to get a level of quality i could live with. With the fine work on this site I have learned well enough to feel my work is acceptable. Here is a picture of the mast bands installedl sans final alignment and the eye bolts. still need the inclusion of the fid top mast. In looking at chapter 12 this AM I thought i could get away with an eye bolt for the lower band but realize that is really going to need the extended form of termination.
 
Also my blackening agent did not live up to the need. I think part of the problem was i used acid core solder and likely it did not clean off the bands well. Good thing it will be painted.
 
BTW you folk took a beating along I35 yesterday. I lived in Denton in the 70s right along 35 and I remember the violent thunderstorms to this day. This must have been horrific.
 
Joe

No Glenn I do not but I will share pictures with you if you would like. When I started this model I just wasn't that confident of my work. Over the past 2 years I have gotten better. Early on when i was planking her it took 3 tries on the starboard side and 2 on the port side to get a level of quality i could live with. With the fine work on this site I have learned well enough to feel my work is acceptable. Here is a picture of the mast bands installedl sans final alignment and the eye bolts. still need the inclusion of the fid top mast. In looking at chapter 12 this AM I thought i could get away with an eye bolt for the lower band but realize that is really going to need the extended form of termination.
 
Also my blackening agent did not live up to the need. I think part of the problem was i used acid core solder and likely it did not clean off the bands well. Good thing it will be painted.
 
BTW you folk took a beating along I35 yesterday. I lived in Denton in the 70s right along 35 and I remember the violent thunderstorms to this day. This must have been horrific.
 
Joe