CharlieZardoz

I have plans, but they are buried at the back of my shop, I'm doing renovations. Pyro made a model called the Bomb Ketch, and here are some pictures. The pyro model is what got me interested in the Marine Models kit.

Regarding the HMS Shine kit, I think I figured that one out. The Mantua "Jamaica" kit is most definitely based on the Bermuda Sloop plans.  Looking at the Jamaica and the Shine I realized that they were essentially the same model, just in different scale and an extra mast added. I realized that when I looked at the stern decorations on both (the left is Shine right is Jamaica) they are pretty much the same as are the deck fittings and layout. The Shine is touted as 1:45 scale at 26.5" but most likely it is closer to 1:64th since Jamaica is 32" at 1:50 scale. Probably tons of Bermuda style sloops sailing around in the early 18th century with all sorts of mast arrangements. If I ever build one probably best to go off the original plans

Wow look at that thing! lol  It looks to me very generic, I couldn't even tell you what century that was supposed to be.  The British had tons of bomber ketch's and while it's possible that a plan was used as a reference, doesn't look like they followed it too closely.  My advice if feeling the need to build this one would be to use the Granado and Convulsion as a reference and also see if you can locate a book on British ketch's, find one that looks similar enough then modify the kit to that ship and call it a day.  

Since when has any of the Continental manufacturers ever got the scale right?  My observation is they put the scale the box they want with little to no bearing on what's in the kit.

There is wisdom in your words. I've always seen kits as just a practice tool for learning. Wooden ship model building is largely a scratch hobby though many of the newer kits offer much more precision then the old kit companies like sergal or dikar. Just today looking through the Peregrine galley and Royal Caroline kits realizing they are represented at wierd/incorrect scales and I think they even used the same hull frames. I will definitely look up those resources which will surely help me understand more of the history and yes I do understand sailing ships were not regimented like modern day ship classes are so even a "type" of vessel had many variations though I do believe researching those uniquenesses is very much part of the fun. Again appreciate the guidance

Hello dear visitors of this build log,
 
a few months ago I have encountered this article  from Chuck on using Sculpey polymeric compound for creating decorations for ship models. I was so thrilled about the options that I had to try it out. I was not very successful on carving such complex ornamentation from wood so this seemed to me to be a very good option. I also found the build logs from Doris which is an expert on such work and this also made me buy this material and start experimenting.
 
In the end I have decided to replace most of the metal casted ornaments that came with the kit and also redo some parts of the model... I have wasted quite a significant time this way but I do hope that in the end this is going to bring some nicer details to the model...
 
Anyway it still takes me a long time to create these ornaments and I am at the beginning of the learning curve so please don't compare my attempts to Doris ones.
 
I have also repainted the hull with more turquoise blue color...
 

Work on decorations of the hull, gratings, ...

Finishing the first layer of planking using lime wood.

The captain broke the anchor. Wasn't me I swear!

Here she is back at port at the end of the "3 hour tour" around the Chester river.

So they put me on steering duty. The ship was quite easy to steer and just feeling how much power she had as she careened to the left and to the right gave me such a great understanding as to what these ships were all about, an amazing experience 

And for my last update for the night I have pics from this weekend when I booked a cruise on the Sultana replica.  Took tons of pics and a few measurements with my laser measurer.  A lot of the pics are less glamorous and more informative but it was an amazing experience!

Jbshan: yes I know what you mean completely, the Constitution is about 204' overall length but that was never really used in draught plans (connie being about 175' at gundeck).  And if we are talking mast end to mast end that's like 304' or something.

Daves: Long story short I have a spreadsheet with various ships that I would consider building over the coming years. Certain ship types I plan to build in groups for example the Sultana is a continental schooner from the 1760s. I don't plan on displaying my models static but grouped sailing together in action sequences using that fake water stuff. Other contemporaries to Sultana might be Halifax, Armed Virginia schooner, Marble Head or Chaleur stuff that's similar but also a bit different to contrast design and performance.  Each group on the spreadsheet has my top 5 interests like top 5 british frigates or american brigs, baltimore clippers or cutters or somesuch not that I expect to build all 5 but it gives me an idea of where I might be headed in the future and what to pick from. Now other than Ballahoo and Pickle there ain't many british schooners/sloops with actual famous names or kits thereof (that I know of anyways) so that's where the bunch I posted come into play. Maybe the Hms Alert or the Bermuda sloop or maybe one of the kits mentioned if I find they have a history that interests me. In the same way that I just found the Racehorse now i'm filled with all sorts of questions. Where was she purchased? Maybe an american ship like the London/Basilisk or Badger/Pitt? Maybe French or Dutch? I've learned so much about ships in just a years time and its digging like this which is helping me discover all sorts of fun facts about sailing ship history, design and development. Also alot of these old kits were in the 1980s model expo catalogue which has sentimental value to me as I read those magazines hundreds of times as a kid. And most likely I would only use the plans to scratch a model in the scale and detail I want but hey it saves me a few steps in the building process. So yeah thats the short explanation lol

Also just out of fun curiosity I found this one, the HMS Racehorse, which isn't based on the 1757 ship plans (of which there are none), but instead of the 1781 ship that was a purchase.  Also the scale 1:47 is an error since at 23" that would make the ship tiny and the draught appears to be over 100' probably closer to 75 or 96 scale even?

6/14/2015

Hi,

The first planking is on the home stretch.  Now I getting ready for some big time filling and sanding.  Walter

 



 



 



 



 

 

 

 

Jbshan: yes I know what you mean completely, the Constitution is about 204' overall length but that was never really used in draught plans (connie being about 175' at gundeck).  And if we are talking mast end to mast end that's like 304' or something.

Daves: Long story short I have a spreadsheet with various ships that I would consider building over the coming years. Certain ship types I plan to build in groups for example the Sultana is a continental schooner from the 1760s. I don't plan on displaying my models static but grouped sailing together in action sequences using that fake water stuff. Other contemporaries to Sultana might be Halifax, Armed Virginia schooner, Marble Head or Chaleur stuff that's similar but also a bit different to contrast design and performance.  Each group on the spreadsheet has my top 5 interests like top 5 british frigates or american brigs, baltimore clippers or cutters or somesuch not that I expect to build all 5 but it gives me an idea of where I might be headed in the future and what to pick from. Now other than Ballahoo and Pickle there ain't many british schooners/sloops with actual famous names or kits thereof (that I know of anyways) so that's where the bunch I posted come into play. Maybe the Hms Alert or the Bermuda sloop or maybe one of the kits mentioned if I find they have a history that interests me. In the same way that I just found the Racehorse now i'm filled with all sorts of questions. Where was she purchased? Maybe an american ship like the London/Basilisk or Badger/Pitt? Maybe French or Dutch? I've learned so much about ships in just a years time and its digging like this which is helping me discover all sorts of fun facts about sailing ship history, design and development. Also alot of these old kits were in the 1980s model expo catalogue which has sentimental value to me as I read those magazines hundreds of times as a kid. And most likely I would only use the plans to scratch a model in the scale and detail I want but hey it saves me a few steps in the building process. So yeah thats the short explanation lol

I see the website you mean Wayne, I could get lost in there lol 8) Thank you everyone for the explanation of Chapman I think I understand better now what he represents to ship history, pretty amazing stuff!  Swedish ships in general are pretty amazing, I've seen a few books, definitely do not get enough credit in their design and contribution to naval evolution.  And yeah I have quite a few ships planned to be built down the line so probably best to simply ignore these "decorative" models though I do have a spreadsheet of all model kits and their significance so if I do wind up finding some more information about them I'll post it on this forum
 
For example I can already see that Hunter was based on this Chapman drawing.

I make the gundeck length to be something like 108 ft. on the draught.  Any length given for a model is likely to be from the tip of the bowsprit to the taffrail or tip of the boom, whichever is longer, so you know how much room you need on your mantle.  Sometimes they will call this length over all or O. A.  This is not a measurement ever used in the period and you won't find it on any document.

Also just out of fun curiosity I found this one, the HMS Racehorse, which isn't based on the 1757 ship plans (of which there are none), but instead of the 1781 ship that was a purchase.  Also the scale 1:47 is an error since at 23" that would make the ship tiny and the draught appears to be over 100' probably closer to 75 or 96 scale even?

I see the website you mean Wayne, I could get lost in there lol 8) Thank you everyone for the explanation of Chapman I think I understand better now what he represents to ship history, pretty amazing stuff!  Swedish ships in general are pretty amazing, I've seen a few books, definitely do not get enough credit in their design and contribution to naval evolution.  And yeah I have quite a few ships planned to be built down the line so probably best to simply ignore these "decorative" models though I do have a spreadsheet of all model kits and their significance so if I do wind up finding some more information about them I'll post it on this forum
 
For example I can already see that Hunter was based on this Chapman drawing.

Also just out of fun curiosity I found this one, the HMS Racehorse, which isn't based on the 1757 ship plans (of which there are none), but instead of the 1781 ship that was a purchase.  Also the scale 1:47 is an error since at 23" that would make the ship tiny and the draught appears to be over 100' probably closer to 75 or 96 scale even?

I see the website you mean Wayne, I could get lost in there lol 8) Thank you everyone for the explanation of Chapman I think I understand better now what he represents to ship history, pretty amazing stuff!  Swedish ships in general are pretty amazing, I've seen a few books, definitely do not get enough credit in their design and contribution to naval evolution.  And yeah I have quite a few ships planned to be built down the line so probably best to simply ignore these "decorative" models though I do have a spreadsheet of all model kits and their significance so if I do wind up finding some more information about them I'll post it on this forum
 
For example I can already see that Hunter was based on this Chapman drawing.

Also just out of fun curiosity I found this one, the HMS Racehorse, which isn't based on the 1757 ship plans (of which there are none), but instead of the 1781 ship that was a purchase.  Also the scale 1:47 is an error since at 23" that would make the ship tiny and the draught appears to be over 100' probably closer to 75 or 96 scale even?

Frederick Henrik af Chapman was one of the first ship designers, if not the first, to base ship design on scientific principles. He is thought a great deal of, not only here in Sweden.
 
There are some beautiful models of some of his ships, many in large scale, in Stockholm Maritime Museum. Most of his ships were good sailers although that, unfortunately, couldn't have been said for the Royal yacht Amphion which he also designed and which by all accounts didn't live up to expectations. He was much better at warships. Amphion's stern and cabin are preserved and on display in the museum. Besides modernising Sweden's offshore fleet, he built her inshore galley fleet and also many of the dockyard buildings at Karlskrona naval base. These are still in existance, including the mast crane – a photo of which I seem to remember appeared on an MSW thread recently under, I think, 'Amazing Photographs'.
 
I have been meaning to get the Dover publication, but I do have another interesting book on Chapman. This is 'F.H. Chapman – the First Naval Architect and his Work', by Daniel G Harris. Harris is Canadian, but his wife is Swedish and he studied Chapman for much of his life. The book was first printed in 1989. I don't know if there have been subsequent revisions, but it is probably available second hand. It is a first class read if you are interested.

That's the book, Charlie.  $9 is a pretty good price.
I read somewhere that the 'typical European kit' was meant to be displayed on a mantle as part of the decor and that the mix of woods was because wood tones were popular.  As long as it looked like a ship that was all that mattered.  The back story was concocted to attract the buyer in the store, not to fulfill any sort of historical accuracy.  To my mind, better to do your own research into a prototype that actually existed than waste time on those 'decorative' models.