CharlieZardoz

So here is my thoughts on the bulwark. Chapelle's "reconstruction" essentially sees the ship's upper works the same as a yacht or other small vessel. I've been looking at images of various boats out there and you can see a similarity just a small lip for a railing and the rails themselves lined up on the waterway. AL's Dallas and the Bluejacket kit follow this line but there is another way I've seen.

And remember always with laser templates A. overlap when you have joints and also add a pixel of extra length so that way the laser can burn off that extra amount and you will get the size you need!

So here is what I've been up to in the last week. Basically getting the templates for the waterways and margin planks ready for the laser. The margin planks will be made from holly veneer and the waterways will be Cherry (like 1 mm or something a bit thicker) and painted white with the stanchion bits added to made a tiny bulwark. Here you can see a paper printed example of what it will look like on the model. You can also see I did a pattern for the treenails where each plank ends/begins. I think it looks ok the planks represent about 15' in length and I tried to follow the 1,3,5,2,4 pattern but there weren't many needed on this small ship.

Hi guys! Sorry was a very busy week. I'm in the middle of building up my own appraisal company so that consists of connecting with new clients, opening sole proprietorship accounts and smoozing.
 
So regarding the revenue cutter carronade, my reasoning for picking the screw over the "quoin" is simply due to availability of carronade kits with screws over the other and since this is a sliding carriage design from 1820 I think it should work. The only model of Doughty's revenue cutters which features a screw style carronade is the Corel Ranger so I'm looking at this photo of what Corel's plan shows for the carronade design (thank you Cathead), this is how I plan on building it.  Regarding the carronade itself I'm going to modify the kits and bash the parts to get something like what the image shows.
 
Now onto my next bunch of querries...

You could have a 'log rail' which basically keeps you from sliding overboard, but probably isn't more than a 4X4.  You might see it called a 'toe rail' on a modern recreational vessel.

You could go with a short bulwark with railing, but the no bulwark and railing was not uncommon, I believe.  They wanted to keep the weight down, especially higher up.  It's a pretty small vessel, the effect of topside weight would be exaggerated.  Even a short bulwark would hold water as well, producing more weight when you least want it, in a storm.

You need one or the other, quoin or elevating screw.  Since the quoin is used on regular trucked carriages for guns, I suspect which one of those you choose would determine the type of carriage, trucked or sliding.  The earliest carronades, 1780 or so, had trunnions and used trucked carriages, the lugged mount, screw and sliding carriage came in later.  Also later was the extended muzzle shield, to try to keep from setting the rigging on fire with the muzzle blast, as these had much shorter barrels than normal guns.  You can roughly date the carronade by these features.  Lavery, 'Arming and Fitting' has a lot on these weapons.

the stern decoration is almost over

 

 

 

 

in the meantime I have tried with some decoration of the stern

 

 

 

 

Some small step forward; there is nothing yet fixed, everything is provisional: I would try to do the glazing, but I do not know if I can!
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Last installment!
 
Have you ever watched the show Pawn Stars on the History Channel? In this show, clients bring their treasures to the Gold & Silver Pawn Shop in Las Vegas, Nevada. The viewers then learn about the history of the item brought in and, ultimately, how much the item is worth. Most of the time, the owner hears that their treasure is not worth as much as they thought. Every once in a blue moon, though, some lucky owner discovers that their item is actually worth more than what they had estimated -- occasionally far more. But these instances are rare.
 
Such is the case with model ships. There are lots of model ships out there in the world, but relatively few of them are worth much. Many are essentially worthless, at least in monetary terms. In this episode, we'll look further into what makes a model valuable.
 
Let's suppose you have a model that you have decided looks like a real scale model and not a piece of mass-produced decor. Now you're hoping that since it's a real scale model, it must surely have value. Not so fast! There are models, and then there are models that people actually want and will pay good money for. To illustrate this point, I'm going to show you two real scale models. One is worth some money, and the other, sadly, is not.
 
First take a look at this model. It's a model of a real ship, the English revenue cutter Sherbourne, built in 1763 (the real ship, that is -- not the model).
 

 
You might be thinking that it's a nice model. You might even think that it's worth something.
 
Except this is the cheap model. If you or I were to take my model -- I mean, ahem, this model -- to a gallery thinking we've got a treasure, we'd be in for disappointment. To you this model might look great, but to the keen eye of a discriminating collector or knowledgeable gallery owner, it's got problems. The biggest problem is that it's made from a kit. You might not be able to tell that by looking at it, but savvy modelers, collectors, and gallery owners will immediately recognize this fact. Because it's built from a kit, this model is also not unique. There are dozens, possibly hundreds, of finished Sherbourne models out there. Besides being made from a kit, it's also made by a modeler with middling talent. Again, you might think the model is done very nicely, but experts will spot the amateur workmanship right away. Some visible aspects of the model are not true to the original, and techniques were used to make the model easier to build at the expense of scale fidelity. All of these things are knocks against the monetary value of the model.
 
But there's something even worse about this model: it's simply not what most buyers want.
 
There are exceptions, of course, but the really pricey models out there, the ones that collectors are willing to shell out several thousand dollars for, generally have three things:
Lots of guns. Lots of rigging (sails and cordage) Lots of fancy ornamentation. My model -- I mean, ahem, the previous model -- has none of these things. It has few guns, little rigging, and essentially no ornamentation. What could a seller expect to be paid for a model like this? If the seller is lucky (really lucky) and can find an actual buyer for the model, he might be able to squeeze a couple hundred dollars out of it. That's, barely enough to even cover the cost of the kit and certainly not enough to make modeling a profitable enterprise.
 
Guns, rigging, fancy stuff -- that's what collectors want. Something like this model of HMS Thunderer:
 

 
Why might this model be worth some dough? Consider the following:
It has lots of guns (well, at least the gun ports for them). It has lots of rigging. It has lots of fancy decoration. It's scratch built, not made from a kit. That means it's a unique piece of art, not one of dozens of built-up kits. It's built to a high standard of workmanship. Someone who builds models like this has spent a lot of time honing his or her skills.   
Like any commodity, the prices fetched by model ships are based on two factors: suply and demand. Lots of people would like to own a museum-quality model. But the number of builders who can build such models is low. Furthermore, it takes a lot of time to build such models, so the output of them is low as well. High demand  + low availability = high prices. For a model like the earlier Sherbourne, the equation is low demand + high availability = low prices.
 
That's it in a nutshell. Like the folks hoping to strike it rich at the pawn shop, most model ship owners are going to experience a letdown when they hear what their 'treasure' is really worth. But cheer up - that unwanted model will still look good on your mantel, which can't be said for a Trabant!
 
Cheers!

In this next installment of How to Spot a Cheap Model, I'll show you the difference between a mass-produced model and an actual scale model built by a master modeler. Once you know what to look for, the cheap stuff is not hard to identify (and by 'cheap' I mean poorly made, not inexpensive). We're going to examine the stern of each model, so that we can see up close what separates class from crass.
 
Both of the models I'll show you are of the famous American warship, the USS Constitution. First we'll look at the high-quality model. This model is built from scratch in 1/48th scale. It was listed for sale at a reputable maritime art gallery. The price of the model was not listed. It's kind of like shopping on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills -- if you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it.
 

 
The fine craftsmanship of this model is everywhere evident. Note the detailed carvings, the meticulously neat painting, the clean run of planking, and the intricate web of rigging. True modelers endeavor to create models that are replicas of the original in every detail, with every part correctly proportioned. A great model looks like a real ship, only much smaller.
 
Now let's look at the expensive kindling. This model was once available on-line for $535. The owner of the site claimed that the model was built by "master craftsmen" using "original plans". It was described as "highly detailed" and built from "high-grade wood" using "plank on frame" construction.
 

 
Friends, none of those things was true. This model was probably built in either the Philippines or Vietnam by laborers who have never seen any plans of the actual Constitution. If they did see the plans, they certainly didn't follow them! The 'high-grade wood' includes western red cedar and mahogany, which are great for full-sized projects but not good modeling woods. When they say 'plank on frame' it is quite likely they mean 'plank on bulkhead'. That might sound like hair-splitting to the uninitiated, but they're actually two very different construction methods, entailing significant differences in both cost to produce and value of the finished product. And as for 'highly detailed'? Just look at the incorrect hull shape, cheap metal castings, simplistic window framing, coarse-grained wood, and adhesive name badge. And don't even get us started on the ship's boats hanging from the sides. This model is low-budget in every respect. It is crudely conceived and poorly executed.
 
If the two models we just looked at were cars, the first would be a Ferrari. The second is a Trabant.
 
So, if you have a Mystery Model, take a good, hard look at it. Does it look like a finely crafted miniature ship? Or does it look a bit rough? If it's the latter, then it's most likely not a unique piece of art. If you were hoping to resell it at a premium price, you'll quickly learn that its market value is less than you might have hoped for.
 
Next: It's a real model, but so what?

Okay, let's delve a little further into this subject. Let's examine a few Mystery Models and discuss what makes them something less than what they seem to be.
 
Take a look at Mystery Model #1.

This one doesn't need too much explanation. It is obviously a curio -- something a kid would buy at the gift shop at Mystic Seaport. When the child outgrows it, it might end up in a yard sale. But more likely, though, it will just get discarded.
 
But not all cheap models are so overtly cheesy. How about Mystery Model #2?

This one looks nice -- from a distance. Once you get up close, you can see that the fittings are not to scale and the workmanship is not great. This is clearly a decor piece. If you have a nautical theme in your office, and you don't want to shell out big bucks for a scale model, you might get something like this at the local home decorating store. You probably won't have much success at selling it to someone else.
 
Mystery Model #3 is something we see a lot of around here.

It looks old. It looks antique. It must therefore be valuable, right? Wrong. This is a classic example of an older style of decor model, probably made in Spain. Columbus' ships were especially popular subjects. Some might have a plaque bearing the name "Fregatta" (fregatta is Spanish for 'frigate'). Unfortunately, unlike perhaps a matched pair of Holland & Holland shotguns, these models don't appreciate in value with age. They just get old, like shag carpet and avocado green appliances.
 
Now, to mix things up a bit, let's look at a model that represents a ship still in existence. First we have the model:

 
And now we have the real deal, the bark Star of India, the crown jewel of the San Diego Maritime Museum.
 

 
At first glance, the model does kind of look like the real ship. But once again, the devil is in the details. Look closely at the real ship. Now look at the model. Notice the difference in the cut of the sails and the way the sails are set on their yards. Notice how fine the rigging looks on the real ship and how chunky it looks on the model. Notice how the model doesn't even have the proper rig (it has square sails on the mizzen mast, the mast at the rear of the ship; the real Star does not). If you could see the model up close, you would see that the lack of fidelity to the original extends to the deck fittings as well. In short, the model is only a crude likeness of the real thing.
 
Now, here's the kicker. At the time of this writing, the Star of India model was available to purchase on the internet for (wait for it) -- $999.99. I kid you not! And, sadly, it's kind of like a new car in the sense that once you drive it off the lot, its value plummets. "But wait," you might say, "I bought this model for $999.99, so it must be worth at least $999.99, right?" Um -- no. In the first place, no one is going to pay $999.99 for your now-second-hand model when there are tons of brand-new ones available on the Internet. Second, I, at least, am certainly not going to pay that much for it, because I know where I can get a brand new model just like it for less than 1/10th of what you paid for yours. Ouch!
 
In the next installment, I'll cue you in on what model ship buyers really want in a model and how much they might be willing to pay for it. Until then!

Hi!
 
On a fairly regular basis, we here at MSW receive requests from new members for help with identifying a ship model, such as something like one of these:
 

 
The request usually looks something like this:
 
 
Now, we are happy to help you with this request, but since we get asked so often, I thought it would be good to finally put some info on mystery models in one topic thread so that you can maybe find your answer before you post. Here are some basic things you should know:
 
1. Many, many models have been built over the years for the sole purpose of serving as decor or memorabilia. This would be a model purchased at, say, Sea World or Home Goods. These models are usually built to low standards in parts of the world where labor is relatively cheap. Once upon a time, southern Europe was a hot-spot for their manufacture. Nowadays most such models are coming out of Southeast Asia. These models usually have little, if any, historical or resale value. If you shelled out for one at an auction, you are probably stuck with it. Unfortunately, the vast majority of models we get asked about fall into this category.
 
2. A similar category of models could be classified as folk art. These are, as the name implies, locally built models that are an artistic representation of a ship rather than a scale model. Like the decor models, these also usually have little value other than sentimental value.
 
3. Then there are models that are actual attempts at scale model building, either scratch built or from a kit. Maybe your dad or grandpa built one. The value of these varies widely depending on the subject and the quality of the build, but the number of builders whose work is actually worth a large chunk of change is very, very small. The number of prospective buyers for such models is even smaller.
 
4. It is an extremely rare model that will turn out to have real value, either due to its artistic merit (built by someone who's a recognized master modeler) or historical value (e.g. a genuine prisoner-of-war bone model). Trust me, there are builders who are good (you would probably ooh and aah over their work), and then there are the builders whom those 'good' modelers look up to - the Stradivaris of our art, if you will. Those builders are few and far between, and grandpa probably wasn't one of them.
 
5. No matter what kind of model you have, the only people who can give you a true estimation of its worth (meaning, what a real person might actually pay) are those who make their living by doing such things, i.e. museum curators or owners of maritime art galleries. What you get from MSW should only be considered an informed opinion. If you do decide to go to a gallery, just let me prepare you well in advance for the shock you will likely experience upon hearing the appraised value of your model. In our hobby, 'valuable' and 'finely crafted' are not necessarily synonymous.
 
Nine times out of ten, mystery models shown at MSW are, sad to say, essentially worthless in terms of monetary value. Some of those models, to be sure, still have sentimental value for their owners, and that is not to be taken lightly. If you have a model like that, then do what you can to preserve it. If, on the other hand, you were hoping you found an overlooked treasure at a boot sale, well, you most likely didn't. Sorry.
 
Cheers!

And here are the final test gratings.  The larger one is a bit loose since that was an older version but these will be discarded for cherry coamings shortly now that I've gotten the hang of building them. I wanted to get a feel for the dimensions and there are things I can see in a photograph that doesn't come out at me during construction. I believe cathead is correct that they are too high so I will shorten them both by 1/32nd of an inch (I honestly couldn't really tell when looking at it in person). The hatch holes are a bit big but that will be corrected when using the Syren kit. What I am pondering is the thickness of the coaming it is currently 3/64" (or 1.2mm) the next step down would be 1mm but I feel that's making the coaming too thin. I've seen models with thick coamings and super thin ones so if anyone has a second opinion do let me know. For now I am waiting on some wood strips and will start the final hatch shortly. Stay tuned!

The curved knife I find is best for cutting the plank strip (you can apply a gentle rocking motion) and for shaving off any pieces of the lock joint that stick out after gluing. This time I built the coaming around the grating making it snug. I used a tiny needle file to help keep the lock joints square and even. Third time around and I am happy with the result.

Greetings everyone! Another week another update and wanted to include you all on some of what I've been up to. Basically did another test grating and coaming this time using a spare grating kit I purchased from model expo a ways back before I knew of Syren's version. I didn't feel comfortable yet using the final version so I practiced on putting the basswood kit together learning a few things what not to do. I used the tools below to help apply glue and then scrape off anything that bled out into the grate holes checking at each layer before I put the next one down. I also determined that it is best (for me anyway) to cut the size I want out first and then glue those grating strips together as I noticed a few different methods. The model expo grating holes are about .1 mm larger than syren's so if the holes look a little large they will change in the final version.  

My advice scratch model of her would probably turn better than a kit, nudge!

I need to get back to work on the JA. I haven't touched it in a while, including the razee and jackass versions.

With Syren you have Chuck's build log. With Prince you have less carvings and rigging to deal with. If it were me (and one day it will be) id build Syren first since more info is out there to work with. But both are on my bucket list

Hi Terry
 
I visited the Tincomalee a couple of years ago, I knew her as a hulk in Portsmouth Harbour when I was a lad.
The museum that houses her and the ship itself are well worth a visit, I was very impressed.
I captured a bunch of photos and posted them on the site under NRG news, here is a link if anyone is interested.
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6335-hms-trincomalee/
 
Nick

My advice scratch model of her would probably turn better than a kit, nudge!

My advice scratch model of her would probably turn better than a kit, nudge!

Hi Charlie -
 
Coming along really nicely.  Love the crisp edges and corners you are creating. 
 
On the restored ships that I have been on, where I could tell anything about the coaming joints under various layers of paint or varnish, there was no consistent height for the coaming, nor for the placement of the lock joint.  Also, sometimes there was a quarter-round molding around the coaming to protect the butt ends of the deck planks from rot. 
 
As for the carronade, I suspect most every foundry had its own pattern for the casting, which probably also changed over time, even within any one country.  As for which of the commercial items to use, it depends on how you are going to mount it.  The brass ones are drilled for a trunnion and carriage mount, like most cannon.  The pewter one has a lug on the bottom for a slide carriage.  You will have to modify them if you want to use the non-matching style.  The pewter one, I think, is the most accurate overall.  The brass ones do not have a vertical breeching ring, but that horizontal 'doughnut' which I think is wrong.  It looks like a part of a metal elevating screw system, although the Caldercraft plans show a wooden quoin wedge for that purpose.    
 
Hope that helps.
 
Dan
 
PS - what an Amazing/Hearbreaking game!  Had no real rooting interest, but it certainly wasn't boring.

And here are the final test gratings.  The larger one is a bit loose since that was an older version but these will be discarded for cherry coamings shortly now that I've gotten the hang of building them. I wanted to get a feel for the dimensions and there are things I can see in a photograph that doesn't come out at me during construction. I believe cathead is correct that they are too high so I will shorten them both by 1/32nd of an inch (I honestly couldn't really tell when looking at it in person). The hatch holes are a bit big but that will be corrected when using the Syren kit. What I am pondering is the thickness of the coaming it is currently 3/64" (or 1.2mm) the next step down would be 1mm but I feel that's making the coaming too thin. I've seen models with thick coamings and super thin ones so if anyone has a second opinion do let me know. For now I am waiting on some wood strips and will start the final hatch shortly. Stay tuned!