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Cathead

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  1. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from ggrieco in Bertrand by Cathead - FINISHED - 1:87 - wooden Missouri River sternwheeler   
    Well, I'm definitely going to miss my personal goal of finishing this by the New Year, but it sure does feel like I'm getting there. In the quiet time around the holidays, I was able to finish framing and planking the hurricane deck, along with building the outhouse/laundry structure. 
     

     
    This framing was difficult, and I'm not entirely pleased with the results. It really tested my skill level to create a delicate web of beams, curving both with the port-starboard camber and the fore-after sheer, while resulting in a smooth support for the uppermost deck (which will be very visible on the finished model). I didn't always succeed; a close look in person will reveal some strange twists and angles in the framing. The aft end also took some creative fiddling to get right; a close look in subsequent photos will show that I had to graft another support beam onto the existing structure to support the deck properly. The good news is, as it always is for most models, is that such details tend to blend into the background of a finished model, and most viewers will never notice. But I do, and despite some un-Christmas-like language at the time, also consider such things part of the process of developing my skills. The end result will look good enough.
     

     
    Here's the outhouse structure, which hangs over the stern so that the paddlewheel helps with disposal. There are separate mens' and womens' chambers, separated by a laundry room in the middle. Two plans show two different ways to arrange these: one has the doors all at the front, the other has the outhouse doors on each side of the structure. I went with the latter, as I figured it provided a bit more privacy for the occupants of these public multi-holers. As it was, these weren't always good for dignity: one book notes that sometimes when repair work needed to be done on the paddlewheel during voyages, lookouts were stationed at the outhouses to prevent a mutual loss of dignity to those below and above. It wasn't clear to me which side the mens' and women's chambers should go, so I followed old practice and placed the womens' on the left and the mens' on the right.
     
    And here are a few views of the current status, showing the planked-in hurricane deck and the paddle-wheel support braces. I haven't installed the hog chains yet, as I think they'll be in the way of other work, but I do have the holes drilled in the decks to accommodate them.
     



     
    You'll also notice that the hurricane deck is a different color. There's no one clear answer on what color steamboat decks tended to be; some sources say they were painted or stained various shades of red, others that they remained natural wood. I suspect it varied quite a bit between builder, owner, and such. I went with red for the main & boiler decks because I like the visual contrast with the white hull & superstructure, but changed to grey/black for the hurricane deck and outhouse roof. In this case, I remember reading somewhere that these uppermost surfaces were sometimes tarred or otherwise sealed differently, and I think the different color helps establish that these areas are different than the lower two decks, serving primarily as a roof rather than a surface. And I think it adds a little more visual interest to the model. Without a clear answer, builder's choice takes precedence.
     
    If you're wondering, the main & boiler decks were stained with thinned Model Shipways paint, while the hurricane deck is rubbed with grey pastel. This is my favorite way to color wooden models, one I use a lot in model railroad buildings, as it keeps the grain of the wood rough and realistic and tends to naturally look faded in a way that paint & stain don't always do. 
     
    Next up: building the pilot house atop the clerestory and roofing/decking in that area, and adding the chimneys. Then I need to build the delicate railings that line most of the boiler deck; I'm not looking forward to that. But once that hurdle is past, the physical model is about done, and it's on to rigging the various hog chains, spars, and other lines around the boat. I'm certain I'll have this done by the end of January. In the meantime, here's the April Verch Band with A Riverboat's Gone:
     

  2. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from hexnut in Bertrand by Cathead - FINISHED - 1:87 - wooden Missouri River sternwheeler   
    Well, I'm definitely going to miss my personal goal of finishing this by the New Year, but it sure does feel like I'm getting there. In the quiet time around the holidays, I was able to finish framing and planking the hurricane deck, along with building the outhouse/laundry structure. 
     

     
    This framing was difficult, and I'm not entirely pleased with the results. It really tested my skill level to create a delicate web of beams, curving both with the port-starboard camber and the fore-after sheer, while resulting in a smooth support for the uppermost deck (which will be very visible on the finished model). I didn't always succeed; a close look in person will reveal some strange twists and angles in the framing. The aft end also took some creative fiddling to get right; a close look in subsequent photos will show that I had to graft another support beam onto the existing structure to support the deck properly. The good news is, as it always is for most models, is that such details tend to blend into the background of a finished model, and most viewers will never notice. But I do, and despite some un-Christmas-like language at the time, also consider such things part of the process of developing my skills. The end result will look good enough.
     

     
    Here's the outhouse structure, which hangs over the stern so that the paddlewheel helps with disposal. There are separate mens' and womens' chambers, separated by a laundry room in the middle. Two plans show two different ways to arrange these: one has the doors all at the front, the other has the outhouse doors on each side of the structure. I went with the latter, as I figured it provided a bit more privacy for the occupants of these public multi-holers. As it was, these weren't always good for dignity: one book notes that sometimes when repair work needed to be done on the paddlewheel during voyages, lookouts were stationed at the outhouses to prevent a mutual loss of dignity to those below and above. It wasn't clear to me which side the mens' and women's chambers should go, so I followed old practice and placed the womens' on the left and the mens' on the right.
     
    And here are a few views of the current status, showing the planked-in hurricane deck and the paddle-wheel support braces. I haven't installed the hog chains yet, as I think they'll be in the way of other work, but I do have the holes drilled in the decks to accommodate them.
     



     
    You'll also notice that the hurricane deck is a different color. There's no one clear answer on what color steamboat decks tended to be; some sources say they were painted or stained various shades of red, others that they remained natural wood. I suspect it varied quite a bit between builder, owner, and such. I went with red for the main & boiler decks because I like the visual contrast with the white hull & superstructure, but changed to grey/black for the hurricane deck and outhouse roof. In this case, I remember reading somewhere that these uppermost surfaces were sometimes tarred or otherwise sealed differently, and I think the different color helps establish that these areas are different than the lower two decks, serving primarily as a roof rather than a surface. And I think it adds a little more visual interest to the model. Without a clear answer, builder's choice takes precedence.
     
    If you're wondering, the main & boiler decks were stained with thinned Model Shipways paint, while the hurricane deck is rubbed with grey pastel. This is my favorite way to color wooden models, one I use a lot in model railroad buildings, as it keeps the grain of the wood rough and realistic and tends to naturally look faded in a way that paint & stain don't always do. 
     
    Next up: building the pilot house atop the clerestory and roofing/decking in that area, and adding the chimneys. Then I need to build the delicate railings that line most of the boiler deck; I'm not looking forward to that. But once that hurdle is past, the physical model is about done, and it's on to rigging the various hog chains, spars, and other lines around the boat. I'm certain I'll have this done by the end of January. In the meantime, here's the April Verch Band with A Riverboat's Gone:
     

  3. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from mattsayers148 in Bertrand by Cathead - FINISHED - 1:87 - wooden Missouri River sternwheeler   
    Well, I'm definitely going to miss my personal goal of finishing this by the New Year, but it sure does feel like I'm getting there. In the quiet time around the holidays, I was able to finish framing and planking the hurricane deck, along with building the outhouse/laundry structure. 
     

     
    This framing was difficult, and I'm not entirely pleased with the results. It really tested my skill level to create a delicate web of beams, curving both with the port-starboard camber and the fore-after sheer, while resulting in a smooth support for the uppermost deck (which will be very visible on the finished model). I didn't always succeed; a close look in person will reveal some strange twists and angles in the framing. The aft end also took some creative fiddling to get right; a close look in subsequent photos will show that I had to graft another support beam onto the existing structure to support the deck properly. The good news is, as it always is for most models, is that such details tend to blend into the background of a finished model, and most viewers will never notice. But I do, and despite some un-Christmas-like language at the time, also consider such things part of the process of developing my skills. The end result will look good enough.
     

     
    Here's the outhouse structure, which hangs over the stern so that the paddlewheel helps with disposal. There are separate mens' and womens' chambers, separated by a laundry room in the middle. Two plans show two different ways to arrange these: one has the doors all at the front, the other has the outhouse doors on each side of the structure. I went with the latter, as I figured it provided a bit more privacy for the occupants of these public multi-holers. As it was, these weren't always good for dignity: one book notes that sometimes when repair work needed to be done on the paddlewheel during voyages, lookouts were stationed at the outhouses to prevent a mutual loss of dignity to those below and above. It wasn't clear to me which side the mens' and women's chambers should go, so I followed old practice and placed the womens' on the left and the mens' on the right.
     
    And here are a few views of the current status, showing the planked-in hurricane deck and the paddle-wheel support braces. I haven't installed the hog chains yet, as I think they'll be in the way of other work, but I do have the holes drilled in the decks to accommodate them.
     



     
    You'll also notice that the hurricane deck is a different color. There's no one clear answer on what color steamboat decks tended to be; some sources say they were painted or stained various shades of red, others that they remained natural wood. I suspect it varied quite a bit between builder, owner, and such. I went with red for the main & boiler decks because I like the visual contrast with the white hull & superstructure, but changed to grey/black for the hurricane deck and outhouse roof. In this case, I remember reading somewhere that these uppermost surfaces were sometimes tarred or otherwise sealed differently, and I think the different color helps establish that these areas are different than the lower two decks, serving primarily as a roof rather than a surface. And I think it adds a little more visual interest to the model. Without a clear answer, builder's choice takes precedence.
     
    If you're wondering, the main & boiler decks were stained with thinned Model Shipways paint, while the hurricane deck is rubbed with grey pastel. This is my favorite way to color wooden models, one I use a lot in model railroad buildings, as it keeps the grain of the wood rough and realistic and tends to naturally look faded in a way that paint & stain don't always do. 
     
    Next up: building the pilot house atop the clerestory and roofing/decking in that area, and adding the chimneys. Then I need to build the delicate railings that line most of the boiler deck; I'm not looking forward to that. But once that hurdle is past, the physical model is about done, and it's on to rigging the various hog chains, spars, and other lines around the boat. I'm certain I'll have this done by the end of January. In the meantime, here's the April Verch Band with A Riverboat's Gone:
     

  4. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from druxey in Bertrand by Cathead - FINISHED - 1:87 - wooden Missouri River sternwheeler   
    Well, I'm definitely going to miss my personal goal of finishing this by the New Year, but it sure does feel like I'm getting there. In the quiet time around the holidays, I was able to finish framing and planking the hurricane deck, along with building the outhouse/laundry structure. 
     

     
    This framing was difficult, and I'm not entirely pleased with the results. It really tested my skill level to create a delicate web of beams, curving both with the port-starboard camber and the fore-after sheer, while resulting in a smooth support for the uppermost deck (which will be very visible on the finished model). I didn't always succeed; a close look in person will reveal some strange twists and angles in the framing. The aft end also took some creative fiddling to get right; a close look in subsequent photos will show that I had to graft another support beam onto the existing structure to support the deck properly. The good news is, as it always is for most models, is that such details tend to blend into the background of a finished model, and most viewers will never notice. But I do, and despite some un-Christmas-like language at the time, also consider such things part of the process of developing my skills. The end result will look good enough.
     

     
    Here's the outhouse structure, which hangs over the stern so that the paddlewheel helps with disposal. There are separate mens' and womens' chambers, separated by a laundry room in the middle. Two plans show two different ways to arrange these: one has the doors all at the front, the other has the outhouse doors on each side of the structure. I went with the latter, as I figured it provided a bit more privacy for the occupants of these public multi-holers. As it was, these weren't always good for dignity: one book notes that sometimes when repair work needed to be done on the paddlewheel during voyages, lookouts were stationed at the outhouses to prevent a mutual loss of dignity to those below and above. It wasn't clear to me which side the mens' and women's chambers should go, so I followed old practice and placed the womens' on the left and the mens' on the right.
     
    And here are a few views of the current status, showing the planked-in hurricane deck and the paddle-wheel support braces. I haven't installed the hog chains yet, as I think they'll be in the way of other work, but I do have the holes drilled in the decks to accommodate them.
     



     
    You'll also notice that the hurricane deck is a different color. There's no one clear answer on what color steamboat decks tended to be; some sources say they were painted or stained various shades of red, others that they remained natural wood. I suspect it varied quite a bit between builder, owner, and such. I went with red for the main & boiler decks because I like the visual contrast with the white hull & superstructure, but changed to grey/black for the hurricane deck and outhouse roof. In this case, I remember reading somewhere that these uppermost surfaces were sometimes tarred or otherwise sealed differently, and I think the different color helps establish that these areas are different than the lower two decks, serving primarily as a roof rather than a surface. And I think it adds a little more visual interest to the model. Without a clear answer, builder's choice takes precedence.
     
    If you're wondering, the main & boiler decks were stained with thinned Model Shipways paint, while the hurricane deck is rubbed with grey pastel. This is my favorite way to color wooden models, one I use a lot in model railroad buildings, as it keeps the grain of the wood rough and realistic and tends to naturally look faded in a way that paint & stain don't always do. 
     
    Next up: building the pilot house atop the clerestory and roofing/decking in that area, and adding the chimneys. Then I need to build the delicate railings that line most of the boiler deck; I'm not looking forward to that. But once that hurdle is past, the physical model is about done, and it's on to rigging the various hog chains, spars, and other lines around the boat. I'm certain I'll have this done by the end of January. In the meantime, here's the April Verch Band with A Riverboat's Gone:
     

  5. Like
    Cathead reacted to CaptainSteve in USS Constitution by CaptainSteve - Model Shipways - 1:76.8 scale   
    Arr …
    Avast and ahoy, Maties. Thanks fer droppin’ by fer a look-see, and a big Thanks to those o’ Ye who have hit the Like button (apologies to those who thought it was the Exit button).
     
    A belated Merry Christmas to Ye one an’ all, by the by !!
     
    Well, it be bein’ way too long since Our Hero was last postin’. Howe’er, that doest not meaneth that he has been slacking off … entirely.
    “In truth,” he didst declare-eth a tad somewhat too defensively, “I has been spending many a while staring at Connie’s shapely rear end and doing much thinkin’ and ponderin’.”
     
    But not much else, Ay, CaptainSteve ??
    “Err … that be,” he didst bluster. “I mean … mayhaps.”
     
    Now, whence last we didst leave Our Hero, he were workin’ on the second version o’ his stern timbers.

     
    “Problems didst occur-eth,” he muttered ‘neath his breath, “and modifications were of necessity.”
     
    Now, for others who wouldst wish-eth to do as CaptainSteve be doing, and wouldst modify thine own Model Shipways kit such that stern windows are featured, Our Hero explains further:
    “Essentially,” He were to begin-eth, by way o’ explanatory narrative, “I didst discard-eth the four kit-supplied frames, using just the back and the top o’ each frame piece. “

     
    Thus, Our Hero were to use-eth the empty frame templates from the kit to sketch and create a set of seven open frame timbers, thusly allowing for the opening-up of the Gallery area, and for the framing o’ six windows.
     
    “If Ye be examinin’ the four stern frame templates from the kit,” CaptainSteve continued, “then Ye shall be seein’ subtle variations atwixt them … “
     
    “Essentially, FRAME1, the biggest from the kit, becomes my middle Timber #1 …

     
    “... the FRAME2 template is duplicated to become Timber#2, and Timber#3 …

     
    “… the FRAME3 template is duplicated to become Timber#4, and Timber#5 …

     
    “… and lastly, the FRAME4 template is also duplicated to become Timber#6, and TIMBER#7.

    Using this system, Our Hero thus numbers his frames as such: 7, 5, 3, 1, 2, 4, 6.
     
    Once cut out, further modificationing were to prove-eth necessary. In particurly, the upper beam of each Frame Timber was extended, to allow for seating into the back of Bulkhead R. Additionally, a “footing” were to be formed for each timber, giving somewhere to affix the pieces to the transom.

    Furthermore, groovin’s for cross-beams were marked and cut, allowing for support and frame strength.
     
    Next he were to interdict, “I didst happen to read-eth somewhere in me travels o’ how the stern window frames on the USS Constitution were angled e’re so slightly in such a manner that shouldst an imaginary line be drawn upwards from each, all wouldst meet at a singular point at the very tip o’ the upper spanker boom.”
    (Jeez, stop to take a breath every now and then, CaptainSteve !!)
     
    Thusly, the footing o’ each frame piece has been angled e’er so slightly:Frames 2 and 3, by 3 degrees …

     
    Frames 4 and 5, by 6 degrees …

     
    Frames 6 and 7, by 9 degrees …

     
    “If Ye doth squint,” he explained, “ye shall notice that the upper roof beams in the next few pictures be just a tad short in length …”

     
    Hmm. ‘Twouldst appear-eth that yet another re-do be-eth featuring in CaptainSteve’s future …
     
    “But, afore that,” CaptainSteve didst announce. “And afore I continue to stumble blindly for’ard, I doth have some final pics with me latest re-do of the stern timbers dry-fitted into position …”

     
    Verily, the final product will look most different to the above pictures.
     
    “Fer one thing,” Our Hero tried most helpfully to explain. ”There will be cross-timbers.”
    And then, almost as an afterthought he declared, “And panelling … and doorways … and … and …”
     
    But fer now, Our Hero jus' be wondering if he be on the right path at this time …
  6. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from CaptainSteve in HMS Dragon 1760 by Siggi52 - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - English 74-Gun ship   
    Siggi,
     
    Apparently ropes (laniards or modern spelling:lanyards) were attached to the buckets. That line appears to refer to how the ropes were stored. A Flemish coil looks like this:
     

     
    and would be a very easy way to coil rope into a fire bucket for storage, as it would be out of the way but easy to pull out when needed (no knots). The English language loves to turn nouns into verbs, so in this case "laniards flemished close down inside" means that the laniards attached to the buckets were coiled tightly inside the bucket ("flemished"), disposing of the whole rope easily.
     
    At least  that's what it means to me. It might also help to know the rest of the next sentence, which begins "some ships that do not stow", as it might shed light on this, assuming that sentence tells what happens on ships which don't stow their buckets and laniards in this manner.
     
     
     
     
  7. Like
    Cathead reacted to mtaylor in HMS Dragon 1760 by Siggi52 - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - English 74-Gun ship   
    Siggi,
     
    I think that "flemished" for the lanyards the key.  If we assumed the lanyards are the handles, then the ends are flemished through the eye.  Have a look at the picture of the buckets and how the rope is attached.  I suspect that is the "flemished".  I did some Googling and the term generally is for when a rope passes through an "eye" such as that on the bucket and is how the rope is tied off.
  8. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from Siggi52 in HMS Dragon 1760 by Siggi52 - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - English 74-Gun ship   
    Heh, good question Mike. Perhaps they had drainage holes in the bottom? 
     
    Siggi, thanks for sharing the rest of the passage, I'm disappointed to be wrong that there's no further info there. 
     
    I'd love to see any other ideas, mine was just supposition based on my understanding of the language used.
  9. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from avsjerome2003 in HMS Dragon 1760 by Siggi52 - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - English 74-Gun ship   
    Siggi,
     
    Apparently ropes (laniards or modern spelling:lanyards) were attached to the buckets. That line appears to refer to how the ropes were stored. A Flemish coil looks like this:
     

     
    and would be a very easy way to coil rope into a fire bucket for storage, as it would be out of the way but easy to pull out when needed (no knots). The English language loves to turn nouns into verbs, so in this case "laniards flemished close down inside" means that the laniards attached to the buckets were coiled tightly inside the bucket ("flemished"), disposing of the whole rope easily.
     
    At least  that's what it means to me. It might also help to know the rest of the next sentence, which begins "some ships that do not stow", as it might shed light on this, assuming that sentence tells what happens on ships which don't stow their buckets and laniards in this manner.
     
     
     
     
  10. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from mtaylor in HMS Dragon 1760 by Siggi52 - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - English 74-Gun ship   
    Heh, good question Mike. Perhaps they had drainage holes in the bottom? 
     
    Siggi, thanks for sharing the rest of the passage, I'm disappointed to be wrong that there's no further info there. 
     
    I'd love to see any other ideas, mine was just supposition based on my understanding of the language used.
  11. Like
    Cathead reacted to Mike Y in HMS Dragon 1760 by Siggi52 - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - English 74-Gun ship   
    Hm, so the buckets were exposed to rain, and some rope was stored inside. Shouldn't it just end up with rotten ropes inside the wet bucket?
  12. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from druxey in HMS Dragon 1760 by Siggi52 - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - English 74-Gun ship   
    Siggi,
     
    Apparently ropes (laniards or modern spelling:lanyards) were attached to the buckets. That line appears to refer to how the ropes were stored. A Flemish coil looks like this:
     

     
    and would be a very easy way to coil rope into a fire bucket for storage, as it would be out of the way but easy to pull out when needed (no knots). The English language loves to turn nouns into verbs, so in this case "laniards flemished close down inside" means that the laniards attached to the buckets were coiled tightly inside the bucket ("flemished"), disposing of the whole rope easily.
     
    At least  that's what it means to me. It might also help to know the rest of the next sentence, which begins "some ships that do not stow", as it might shed light on this, assuming that sentence tells what happens on ships which don't stow their buckets and laniards in this manner.
     
     
     
     
  13. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from mtaylor in HMS Dragon 1760 by Siggi52 - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - English 74-Gun ship   
    Siggi,
     
    Apparently ropes (laniards or modern spelling:lanyards) were attached to the buckets. That line appears to refer to how the ropes were stored. A Flemish coil looks like this:
     

     
    and would be a very easy way to coil rope into a fire bucket for storage, as it would be out of the way but easy to pull out when needed (no knots). The English language loves to turn nouns into verbs, so in this case "laniards flemished close down inside" means that the laniards attached to the buckets were coiled tightly inside the bucket ("flemished"), disposing of the whole rope easily.
     
    At least  that's what it means to me. It might also help to know the rest of the next sentence, which begins "some ships that do not stow", as it might shed light on this, assuming that sentence tells what happens on ships which don't stow their buckets and laniards in this manner.
     
     
     
     
  14. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from Siggi52 in HMS Dragon 1760 by Siggi52 - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - English 74-Gun ship   
    Siggi,
     
    Apparently ropes (laniards or modern spelling:lanyards) were attached to the buckets. That line appears to refer to how the ropes were stored. A Flemish coil looks like this:
     

     
    and would be a very easy way to coil rope into a fire bucket for storage, as it would be out of the way but easy to pull out when needed (no knots). The English language loves to turn nouns into verbs, so in this case "laniards flemished close down inside" means that the laniards attached to the buckets were coiled tightly inside the bucket ("flemished"), disposing of the whole rope easily.
     
    At least  that's what it means to me. It might also help to know the rest of the next sentence, which begins "some ships that do not stow", as it might shed light on this, assuming that sentence tells what happens on ships which don't stow their buckets and laniards in this manner.
     
     
     
     
  15. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from Landrotten Highlander in HMS Dragon 1760 by Siggi52 - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - English 74-Gun ship   
    Siggi,
     
    Apparently ropes (laniards or modern spelling:lanyards) were attached to the buckets. That line appears to refer to how the ropes were stored. A Flemish coil looks like this:
     

     
    and would be a very easy way to coil rope into a fire bucket for storage, as it would be out of the way but easy to pull out when needed (no knots). The English language loves to turn nouns into verbs, so in this case "laniards flemished close down inside" means that the laniards attached to the buckets were coiled tightly inside the bucket ("flemished"), disposing of the whole rope easily.
     
    At least  that's what it means to me. It might also help to know the rest of the next sentence, which begins "some ships that do not stow", as it might shed light on this, assuming that sentence tells what happens on ships which don't stow their buckets and laniards in this manner.
     
     
     
     
  16. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from Dimitris71 in Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River   
    Cairo was an ironclad gunboat, so it stands to reason she'd need more power than a lightly-built riverboat intended for speedy passage of cargo and passengers.  
     
    I've visited Cairo at Vicksburg, it's a real treat to walk up to and around in person.
  17. Like
    Cathead reacted to ggrieco in Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River   
    Thanks Tom,
     
    Merry Christmas to you and everyone else that has been following and contributing.  I'm sorry that I haven't been more involved, the holidays have kept me away from the computer and I will be away for the better part of this next week.  I just wanted to thank everyone for the info and I am really looking forward to getting back into the lab next week to work on the flywheels and paddlewheels.  Yes  Keith and avsjerome2003,  the Cairo was of interest to me and I copied the safety vavles for Heroine but as you point out, it must have put out a lot of power.  I haven't had a chance to discuss it with Kevin but, I'm now leaning toward two boilers for Heroine.  The attached photo is from Ft. Gadsen in Florida.  The Paddlewheel flanges in the photo are almost exactly what we recovered from the Heroine.  The drive train seems comparable to Heroines except for the lack of a flywheel and throw-out bearings.  The vessel was a sidewheeler with paddlewheels approximately the size of Heroine's.  I think this might be good evidence that Heroine only had two.
     

     
     
    I hope everyone has a wonderful New Year!
     
    Glenn
  18. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from Canute in Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River   
    Cairo was an ironclad gunboat, so it stands to reason she'd need more power than a lightly-built riverboat intended for speedy passage of cargo and passengers.  
     
    I've visited Cairo at Vicksburg, it's a real treat to walk up to and around in person.
  19. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from ggrieco in Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River   
    Cairo was an ironclad gunboat, so it stands to reason she'd need more power than a lightly-built riverboat intended for speedy passage of cargo and passengers.  
     
    I've visited Cairo at Vicksburg, it's a real treat to walk up to and around in person.
  20. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from Jack12477 in Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River   
    Cairo was an ironclad gunboat, so it stands to reason she'd need more power than a lightly-built riverboat intended for speedy passage of cargo and passengers.  
     
    I've visited Cairo at Vicksburg, it's a real treat to walk up to and around in person.
  21. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from mtaylor in Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River   
    Cairo was an ironclad gunboat, so it stands to reason she'd need more power than a lightly-built riverboat intended for speedy passage of cargo and passengers.  
     
    I've visited Cairo at Vicksburg, it's a real treat to walk up to and around in person.
  22. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from wyz in Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River   
    Cairo was an ironclad gunboat, so it stands to reason she'd need more power than a lightly-built riverboat intended for speedy passage of cargo and passengers.  
     
    I've visited Cairo at Vicksburg, it's a real treat to walk up to and around in person.
  23. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from avsjerome2003 in Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River   
    Cairo was an ironclad gunboat, so it stands to reason she'd need more power than a lightly-built riverboat intended for speedy passage of cargo and passengers.  
     
    I've visited Cairo at Vicksburg, it's a real treat to walk up to and around in person.
  24. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from mirek in Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River   
    I'm not sure about the initial aspects of the procedure, but as far as removing the hot material safely from the boat, many boats had a special ash trough that allowed the hot coals & such to be swept/washed away from the boilers, either over the side or through an opening in the guards. Here is a picture of the brick-lined ash trough from my Bertrand build.
     

     
    As for boiler explosions, they were quite common on western riverboats, due to a combination of high-pressure boilers, limited or no safety equipment (such as dial pressure gauges), limited knowledge/training of the engineers running the boilers, and a commercial (and passenger) culture which favored speed and power over safety and caution.
     
    For a long time, the only safety valve on riverboat boilers was a simple weighted lever, which was very easy for an ambitious engineer to over-weight or even tie down, increasing the pressure in the boilers. With no clear testing or standards, no one really knew what pressure boilers could hold, and there was no calibrated way to measure pressure. Water levels in the boiler also couldn't be measured easily (again, no gauges), so this too was guesswork and instinct. Thus, if water levels got too low, or levels fluctuated as suggested for Sultana, boom with no warning.
     
    All of this was made much more likely by the river culture of the time, in which the fastest boats received premium rates and reputations, regardless of safety concerns. In addition, river conditions could lead to explosions, as when boats attempted to force a bar or round a bend under high-water conditions, needing every ounce of steam in the attempt. One particularly deadly explosion in central Missouri happened after a boat repeatedly tried to round a bend in front of a towns-worth of onlooker, failing over and over and being swept back downstream in embarrassment, before the engineer apparently tied down the pressure valve and went for it all. The boat blew up mid-bend, sending debris into the onlookers on the bluff and killing many passengers.
     
    Glenn, I'm curious how you know the Heroine had four boilers. The number varied from boat to boat; I was surprised to learn that Bertrand only had two. Also, do you know what kind of pump the water supply used?
  25. Like
    Cathead got a reaction from Bobstrake in Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River   
    In return, it's not clear (at least to me) how Jerome Petsche's reconstructions decided Bertrand had two boilers (they were salvaged shortly after the wreck, as I assume Heroine's were, iron being so fantastically valuable on the frontier). His drawings show them as such, but he doesn't discuss that aspect of the reconstruction in his book. It may have something to do with the dimensions and layout of the supporting structures for the boilers, which were preserved in the main deck of Bertrand and (I assume?) also on Heroine. A given width of support timbers may strongly suggest X number of boilers, given that most were made to similar plans/dimensions. Just to show the uncertainties involved, a privately-drawn set of Bertrand plans I initially started working with, before setting them aside as too inaccurate compared to Petsche's data, have Bertrand with three boilers. 
     
    It's all very confusing.
     
    Thanks for the pump info! I'm loving learning more about this boat through your work, and again apologize if I ever over-step my bounds.
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