Cathead

In this context, "western" means the river basins west of the Appalachian Mountains. When steamboat technology was developing in the early 19th century, this area (including the Ohio basin) was still the frontier, and nearly isolated from the developed part of the country along the Atlantic seaboard. Much of the design and technology that went into steamboat construction on the upper Ohio River, where almost all the boats used along the Mississippi, Missouri, and Ohio rivers (and their tributaries) were built, was fairly indigenous and not imported from elsewhere. This is especially true since conditions on these rivers were very different from most rivers draining east into the Atlantic. So we talk about "western river boats" to mean the unique set of designs and construction methods that arose in that region, distinguishing these craft from the very different boats built for eastern rivers like the Hudson. Even as late as the Civil War, this region was still considered the "West"; it wasn't until the development of railroads that the Mississippi basin really became integrated into the rest of the country.
 
It gets a bit messier once you go west of the Rockies, to boats operating on the Columbia and other Pacific rivers. But as far as I know, these mostly derived their designs from the original "western" boats and so still qualify as such.

Those windows...I'll need to wipe the drool from my keyboard.
 
What's your plan for running the chimneys through the boiler deck?

In this context, "western" means the river basins west of the Appalachian Mountains. When steamboat technology was developing in the early 19th century, this area (including the Ohio basin) was still the frontier, and nearly isolated from the developed part of the country along the Atlantic seaboard. Much of the design and technology that went into steamboat construction on the upper Ohio River, where almost all the boats used along the Mississippi, Missouri, and Ohio rivers (and their tributaries) were built, was fairly indigenous and not imported from elsewhere. This is especially true since conditions on these rivers were very different from most rivers draining east into the Atlantic. So we talk about "western river boats" to mean the unique set of designs and construction methods that arose in that region, distinguishing these craft from the very different boats built for eastern rivers like the Hudson. Even as late as the Civil War, this region was still considered the "West"; it wasn't until the development of railroads that the Mississippi basin really became integrated into the rest of the country.
 
It gets a bit messier once you go west of the Rockies, to boats operating on the Columbia and other Pacific rivers. But as far as I know, these mostly derived their designs from the original "western" boats and so still qualify as such.

Roger, do you know if similar designs evolved along the Missouri, where conditions were quite different, and even harsher, than on the Ohio? Given that most Missouri River boats were built along the upper Ohio, it's certainly logical that the design you describe was supplied to boats destined for the Missouri, but I could also see a new subdesign developing in that basin to meet unique local conditions. I've never thought much about this aspect of Western River steamboats before, and appreciate you bringing it up.

Mike, I agree with Chuck, and heck I could send you the plans I used for my Far West, as I don't need them anymore.
 
Anyway, great start, keep it up!

Roger, do you know if similar designs evolved along the Missouri, where conditions were quite different, and even harsher, than on the Ohio? Given that most Missouri River boats were built along the upper Ohio, it's certainly logical that the design you describe was supplied to boats destined for the Missouri, but I could also see a new subdesign developing in that basin to meet unique local conditions. I've never thought much about this aspect of Western River steamboats before, and appreciate you bringing it up.

Those windows...I'll need to wipe the drool from my keyboard.
 
What's your plan for running the chimneys through the boiler deck?

Yeah, Cathead, I agree - very interesting and I am going to do some checking on the sources Roger has cited.  I figured a boat was a boat - but being wider than average sure makes sense for the use.  The Chapelle book though is the one I do not have!
Kurt

I agree 100% with Cathead on the colors.  Red was by far the most common deck color though brown was also used.  Most hulls were white but black was also used.  Check the photos I had posted of the Chaperon to see the white hull, but the photo I posted of the model made by Sam Parent had a black hull and made a very attractive boat.  If you are going to model the Chaperon as the Chaperon then I would definitely go with the white hull but if you change the name use black or white.
Kurt

Several days ago there was a discussion on a build log regarding research for the steamer Chaperone and I questioned the absence of characteristic Ohio River yawl boats on a couple of well detailed models. It turned out that photographic evidence proved me wrong, but my question generated interest and a suggestion was made to move the discussion to this site, so here goes.
 
To me, most interesting thing about American Western Rivers steamboats was the way that innovators built these vessels to adapt to the then hostile environment that existed before the rivers were "tamed" with the current system of locks and dams. Conditions varied from very high water and swift currents to very shallow water. It was supposedly said that these boats could float on a heavy dew. In these low water conditions these boats using a system of heavy spars, tackles and their steam capstans could actually be lifted over sandbars.
 
Overcoming these navigational hazards also required a sturdy work boat to haul heavy hawsers ashore. Secured to large trees, these lines could warp the boats ahead. For this purpose, a specialized distinctive workboat called an Ohio River Yawl Boat was developed. Howard Chapelle described these boats in his American Small Sailing Craft. These boats were wide flat bottomed skiffs with considerable keel rocker and flaring top sides. This allowed the boat to carry heavy loads in very shallow water with ample stability.
 
Modellers wishing to include one of these boats on a steamboat model will find much information on the Internet. Googling Ohio River Yawl Boat will yield a number of interesting sites. First, there is a discussion on wooden boat.com, subheading Ohio/Mississippi River Skiff Yawl about these boats. Google books also has published Chapelle's small craft book. Both of these sources include Chapelle's drawings of representative craft. There is also an interesting article about Marietta, Ohio boatbuilder adapting this indigenous design to produce a inexpensive boat for high school age rowers.
 
Roger Pellett

Kurt, yes, there has to be a market and I'm certainly not a marketer and certainly not a neutral observer. Of course I think a nice steamboat kit would sell, I'm deep in the rabbit hole. I don't understand why there are so many more build logs of the AL kit than the MSW kit, when the latter seems so much higher quality and an equally interesting craft from a visual perspective.
 
Many kits naturally draw upon craft that are still in existence, like Constitution or various craft at Mystic. And the Civil War period is highly popular in general. Well, there are multiple river craft from that general period that have physical museums dedicated to them (Cairo, Arabia, Bertrand), existing remains to view, and in some cases even good plans (Bertrand and Far West at a minimum). If it's economically viable to offer models of Civil-War-era ocean-going ships, to my narrow eyes it seems viable to offer models of riverboats that are simpler in design and construction than most ships.
 
But I enjoy scratchbuilding, too, so this doesn't really affect me directly. I just have a hard time understanding why riverboats are beyond the pale when I look at how many other kits of truly obscure ships are out there.

Speaking from my own knowledge, many riverboats used a dark red paint on their lower decks, wheels, etc. And white is very definitely accurate. Though for true correctness you might stain the lower bit muddy!

Mike:
Do not dread planking this hull.  It's pretty straightforward.  I wet the planks that needed fitting for about 2 minutes, clamped them in place till dry and then glues them in place - no stress on the glue joints.  Just be careful with clamping force as the basswood can crush easily when wet.
Kurt

Mike,
 
    As an onlooker, I would second Cathead's opinion that scratchbuilding would be a good next step.  I recommend FAR WEST.  It is a simple Missouri River boat with alot of history.

I know that it is a very long way ahead, but, when you get to it there is a removable section of the side of the boat. It is there so you can take it off to be able to get to all the cabin sides etc to remove them. The problem is that the way OcCre designed the kit, if you do it their way you cannot remove all the removable section. I came up with a cunning plan which I am happy to share. For the sake of a bit of 'licence' on two pieces of rigging rope I managed to work out a solution. I have attached some pics which might help my comment more useful but I am more than happy to try and help if you want when you get there..
 

Cathead, all done with the best intentions and thanks for your advice re Kurt and Roger.
Kurt, sorry if I confused you about the roof. I made the comments from a couple of your photos not the drawings.
 
Anyway, I have been pushing on and now have all the bulkheads on the false keel lovely and square. Not that I can take much credit for that, I had to do very little adjustment as the pieces were so well laser cut. Putting the stringers on was therefore really easy. Also the lovely people who designed this kit had the excellent foresight to mark the fairing with laser lines. If you look at frames 4 and 5 which I have not faired yet you will see what I mean. I know heaps of folk have trouble with fairing - what a shame other kit manufacturers don't help like this.
 
So I just have to fair those last bulkheads and it will be on to the job I always dread the most, hull planking.
 
Some pictures on the progress thus far.
 
 
 

Hi, friends!
 
I want to give you a preview of a new feature we are adding to the build logs section. Right now we are in the process of adding the word "FINISHED" to each completed build log immediately after the builder's username. Titles of finished logs will now look something like this:
 
HMS Doohickey by allthumbs - FINISHED - 1/50 scale
 
Why are we doing this? Because it makes it easier for you to use our search feature to find only finished models if you wish to do so. Plus, it eliminates the need for a separate forum for finished models. Here's how to do it:
 
1) Start in the Build Logs for Ship Model Kits forum.
2) Up by the search window in the upper right corner, click the little gear symbol to pull up the advanced search options.
3) Enter the name of the ship you're looking for and the word 'finished'.
4) Select the "all words" and "only search in titles" options.
5) Hit the SEARCH NOW button
6) Presto! You'll get a list of finished models.
 
Wanna test drive? Try searching the term Constitution using the above directions. If you want to see all finished models, just search the term 'finished' by itself.
 
Narrowing your search to finished builds is useful for finding builds that illustrate later steps of construction, such as rigging. That way you can skip past builds that end at earlier stages of construction.
 
Once we get all the kit builds tagged appropriately, we will add the finished tag to the scratch build section as well. We added the word in all caps so that finished build logs will stand out if you decide to browse logs the old-fashioned way.
 
Enjoy!

Finally,  the main deck structure is framed and planked.  Just a few more details before moving to the boiler deck.
 
 
Port side framing.  I just noticed that I haven't finished the framing of the outhouse at the stern.

 

 

 
 
Milling the window frames.  The mill is a 1 mm ball nosed mill.

 

 
 
After milling, I took the back side off with the thickness planer.  I'll clean it up and square the corners with a file.

 
 
Test fit of the first frame.  The windows will ge glazed with mica as per druxey's tip.  The mica will be sandwiched between a pair of window frames.

 
 
Starboard side painted -- still need a few touch-ups.

 

 
 
Test fitting a couple more windows.

 

I'll follow along, and wish you much enjoyment from the project!

Mike, I'm not sure what it means to be a "friend" in this system but it sounds benign enough!
 
For reference, this site is where I ordered plans for the Far West. I'm sure Kurt, Roger, and others will be quite helpful if and when you want to start looking at ideas. In the meantime, sorry for contributing to the takeover of your log, and look forward to the resumption of the topic at hand.

While I've never handled the AL kit, to my eye it looks toylike; out of scale and inaccurate. An attractive model can be made from it, just not a realistic one. So it depends on what you want.
 
If you're really into realistic steamboats, there are a number of craft with good plans available that you could scratchbuild. From what I've seen, your skills are more than enough for that undertaking.

I'll follow along, and wish you much enjoyment from the project!

I thought I'd add a couple pictures of the sanding jig.  The dark brown curve is just a piece of wood the same dimensions and arc as the beam.   Currently it's set up for the top of the beam.  If I rotate it 180 degees, I'll be able to to the bottom of the beam.   The sanding drum is turning about 5000 rpm and barely touching the wood, but two passes and the wood is clean and the slight angle on the cut edge left by the laser cutter is removed.
 

 

Progress of sorts.
 
Back on Version 1, I didn't do anything to the hold area.  However if one looked closely down the main hatch, the frames could be seen.  So this time, I've planked the area there.  I also have some hogsheads and barrels that I'm thinking of placing just in case someone peeks.  That's basically it for the hold.  The plans do show two platforms but nothing as to access.   The admiral agrees with this... also the rest of the plan....
 
Currently, I've cut my deck clamps for all four decks (lower, gun, and the quarterdeck and forecastle).  They're soaking and will be heat bent to shape.  I'm checking the inside again for a fair run for the planks and clamps.  Found a few spots that need some touch up with the sanding stick.  I've got a jig made up with the glue drying for removing the char from 75 deck beams that I ordered from Chuck back before I bought my laser.   Hopefully that won't get too monotonous... 
 
I'm also fiddling with the stern carvings in my "quiet" moments....  
 
The rest of the plan..
As far as details on the lower deck.. there's a gunroom at the stern but nothing in any of the plans on the doorway nor for a scuttle to the deck above nor what is in the gunroom.  I'll be referencing Hermione for this as the Belle Poule plans don't go below the gundeck.  Forward of the gunroom I'll add the 4 officers rooms, two storerooms, and two breadrooms.   And of course, the oven and hatchways. 
 
I'm also adding the bulkhead just behind the foremost hatchway with two doors (left and right to avoid the hatch.  I'm not sure what was stored in that area even though there's six rooms in that cramped area labeled "storeroom".  So I'm winging it a bit.  To the stern, I'll add the 4 officers rooms, two storerooms, and two breadrooms.   And of course, the oven and hatchways.  
 
There seems to be some subtle pressure from the Admiral on this suddenly... I think it's from earlier this week when I showed her the galleries and the little plaque.  Now shes' already started talking "display case"...   I keep telling her, it will be done when it's done...   
 
Once more, dear friends... into the breach.
 

 

Mike, I'm not sure what it means to be a "friend" in this system but it sounds benign enough!
 
For reference, this site is where I ordered plans for the Far West. I'm sure Kurt, Roger, and others will be quite helpful if and when you want to start looking at ideas. In the meantime, sorry for contributing to the takeover of your log, and look forward to the resumption of the topic at hand.