Cathead

Cathead:
One point that was covered is that there must be a good market to make the mfg take the risk.  There are not enough of us building riverboats to be considered a viable market.  The Chaperon kit is the sole kit with good scale fidelity and good engineering and I think the sales of it have been good but I don't think that Marc's going to do another riverboat kit soon - if ever - as there just aren't enough of us to matter.
Here are some photos of what I think is the best engineered riverboat kit I have ever seen - and built.
 
It's a 1/48 scale waterline kit by Train Troll - I got it at the NRG Conference in Mystic last year.  Kit name is the Smokey Duck. Train Troll will be a vendor at the 2016 NRG Conference in San Diego in October.  Laser cut parts that are by far the best of any kit I have worked with or examined.  His market is mainly RR modelers - a much bigger segment of the modeling world than we are.  I think when more boat builder see this guy's stuff he's going to become better know to us.  Check out the web site.  Every one of his models is great and the detail stuff he has is outstanding.
 
Kurt

Very nice indeed. I like how subtle they are; the pattern blends into the hull without dominating it. And that first photo of USS Porcupine gave me a chuckle.
 
I'm curious: there are a few stretches where there are none, why is that? For example, in your last photo, upper middle, right along the waterline there aren't any on either side of the line, and in the photo above that there aren't any along the waterline in a stretch at upper right.

Very nice indeed. I like how subtle they are; the pattern blends into the hull without dominating it. And that first photo of USS Porcupine gave me a chuckle.
 
I'm curious: there are a few stretches where there are none, why is that? For example, in your last photo, upper middle, right along the waterline there aren't any on either side of the line, and in the photo above that there aren't any along the waterline in a stretch at upper right.

Thanks again to everyone for your encouragement and likes.
 
So goes the treenails. I went with the popular consensus of the #2 pattern and so far looking good. After doing the small mockup I saw how easy it was to mess up on hole placement. I ended up drawing a grid on the hull and marking every single hole. I did each section, port and starboard, at the same time so everything would be symmetrical.
 

 
After I glued in a few hundred, then I'd clip off the extra length and move on to the next section. Once that phase was completed I followed up with a very sharp chisel, cutting the treenails flush with the planks. Then a light sand and follow up with a little wax. Now I move up to the deck.
 

Yeah, that's been my guess, too. I brought up the idea of a good scale steamboat model in the "kit makers" thread, with examples of boats that have plans and good information available, but neither responded. As a writer and educator, I'd love to work on the instruction manual for a good steamboat kit.

Here's a question I've been pondering for some time, though I don't want to offend anyone: Why are many steamboat kits so bad? To my eyes, at least, some of the kits I see look terrible. The AL King of the Mississippi, for example, looks very out of proportion with inaccurate detail. I can't look at it without seeing a child's toy, even when the modeller has done a very nice job. It really makes me wish I had the skill set and resources to design and offer a good steamboat kit.

Yeah, that's been my guess, too. I brought up the idea of a good scale steamboat model in the "kit makers" thread, with examples of boats that have plans and good information available, but neither responded. As a writer and educator, I'd love to work on the instruction manual for a good steamboat kit.

Here's a question I've been pondering for some time, though I don't want to offend anyone: Why are many steamboat kits so bad? To my eyes, at least, some of the kits I see look terrible. The AL King of the Mississippi, for example, looks very out of proportion with inaccurate detail. I can't look at it without seeing a child's toy, even when the modeller has done a very nice job. It really makes me wish I had the skill set and resources to design and offer a good steamboat kit.

This model is not painted.  When complete, most of the model will be natural wood.  When I completed planking the hull with the thin walnut strips; I felt that the look of the unfinished planks was dull and not visually exciting.  I decided to stain the planks darker and apply a glossy polyurethane finish.  I used a dark walnut stain and it did come out a little darker than I anticipated but I still think it is better than the unfinished look.  What do you think?
 
I added the nails and deemed the hull  complete enough to move onto the main deck.

People aren't being unreasonable, they're doing exactly what they were asked to do by the topic, sharing what they'd like to see. Most of us don't know anything about the business side of kit development (which is why I tried to ask about it earlier), so how do you expect respondents to magically produce only practical answers?
 
Look, no one understands businesses they aren't engaged in. Among other things, I'm a vegetable farmer, and farmers market customers always want their produce organic, perfect, and cheap. Well, you can't have all three. Organic and perfect, it won't be cheap. Organic and cheap, it's going to have bug damage. Perfect and cheap, it ain't going to be chemical-free. But people who have never grown a vegetable in their life, or even people who have a home garden, have no mental structure for evaluating the actual business of vegetable production.
 
So there's no need to get huffy about modellers saying what they'd "like" to see, especially when that's what was asked for. If we can get a nice explanation from the developers of what actually goes into the business model of kit development, maybe then we can give more "realistic" answers. Until then, just take the feedback here at face value as a narrow sampling of a limited community of dedicated modellers and get what value you can from it.

Thanks, Kurt. Ironically, I just passed through Branson on Friday coming back from a quick visit to in-laws in Arkansas, and I'll miss the September St. Louis event because we'll be away on our annual vacation (in Maine this year, hoping to visit BlueJacket). But these are things we plan ahead for and it's a lot harder for me to take isolated trips for personal stuff like shows. Oh well. I know there's a small show in Columbia later in the fall, may try to hit that one.
 
Sorry to derail the thread. Back to riverboats.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm afraid I don't get out much these days, for reasons of workload and budget, and don't think I could justify a trip to model show more than a few hours away. Would love to, but it'd be hard.
 
Do IPMS shows accept wooden models?

Thanks, Kurt. Ironically, I just passed through Branson on Friday coming back from a quick visit to in-laws in Arkansas, and I'll miss the September St. Louis event because we'll be away on our annual vacation (in Maine this year, hoping to visit BlueJacket). But these are things we plan ahead for and it's a lot harder for me to take isolated trips for personal stuff like shows. Oh well. I know there's a small show in Columbia later in the fall, may try to hit that one.
 
Sorry to derail the thread. Back to riverboats.

How I made the ship oars with my wood mini lathe  
Some days ago I was asked to prepare a tutorial about the method I used to prepare the 30+ oars of the Gokstad Viking ship. During the session I build the last five oars still needed I took, after each important step, an image of the work done. This in order to make (I hope) easy to understand how I worked and the correct usage of the lathe for this task.  
Image 01 shows the raw material I used to build the oar: a rod of beechwood with diameter +/- 4mm. The total length of each rod is in my case 18mm circa and each oar has four segments of 13mm (handle, +/- 1.5-1.7mm diameter), 30mm (not to work on), 82mm (to be reduced at 2.5mm diameter), and the remaining (blade, not to work on for the moment). Each segment is marked on the rod with a pencil before starting to work on the lathe.     
 
01 Tornio/10_zpslvyqlcxx.jpg

 
The tools used for this task: mini sanding blocks of different grade, chisels of different shapes: everyone will find the better suitable for him or for the task. 
 
02 Tornio/15_zpswkv2wz7r.jpg

 
Insert the rod into the lathe clamp after having previously drilled a small hole on the tip close to the handle side. Clamp the rod 20mm after the end of the 13+30mm markers. Block the stable tool support as close as possible to the rod. 
 
03 Tornio/20_zps0cdgbgg3.jpg

 
Position the tailstock with the quill travel, center the small hole on the tip and block it.
 
04 Tornio/25_zpsfgbeqfhn.jpg

 
Power on the lathe and reduce the diameter of the rod as shown below with your preferred tool. Personally I use first the chisel and later the sanding blocks to refine.
 
05 Tornio/30_zpsw25jxosg.jpg

 
Poweroff the lathe and extract another 2mm rod from the lathe and clamp it again . .
 
06 Tornio/35_zpsrwk9niuu.jpg

 
Power on the lathe and restart the diameter reduction for the next 20mm segment . .
 
07 Tornio/40_zpsoypuqveo.jpg

 
Repeat the steps until you reach the end of the 82mm. segment. The reason I proceeded working only of 20mm segments is related to the flexibility of the reduced diameter area (about 2.5mm). If you work on longer segments you risk to break the rod and the complete work done is then lost.
 
08 Tornio/45_zpswnjneuau.jpg

 
09 Tornio/50_zpsj5xn71tv.jpg

 
At this point insert the rod into the lathe, close to the oar handle. Clamp the rod and position the tailstock again.
 
10 Tornio/55_zpsmgdzlrdj.jpg

 
Lathe the oar handle. The handle should have a diameter of 1.5-1.7mm.
 
11 Tornio/60_zpsuryuj1gr.jpg

 
Cut the excess tip, now no more useful and refine with sanding block.
 
12 Tornio/65_zpsfiqoqsl2.jpg

 
Extract the oar from the lathe; now this task is over and it remains only to shape the blade . .
 
13 Tornio/70_zpsgirr6tfm.jpg

 
All the oars are finished . . although the blade shaped tips are still to be done . . will be a matter for next messages.
 
14 Tornio/20160621_163501_zpsi2myuze1.jpg

 
That's all for now . . to the next progress step (blade tips).
 
Regards, Jack.Aubrey.
 

Thanks, Kurt. Ironically, I just passed through Branson on Friday coming back from a quick visit to in-laws in Arkansas, and I'll miss the September St. Louis event because we'll be away on our annual vacation (in Maine this year, hoping to visit BlueJacket). But these are things we plan ahead for and it's a lot harder for me to take isolated trips for personal stuff like shows. Oh well. I know there's a small show in Columbia later in the fall, may try to hit that one.
 
Sorry to derail the thread. Back to riverboats.

I would not recommend this.  I believe I would have been ill served if I had been forced to go into the kiddies pool until I learned how to swim when I first signed aboard.  Being able to see the various levels of accomplishment helped highlight what I was getting into and let me know there were many like me.  Meanwhile it also gave me a goal to strive for.
 
    Looking at the build logs of some of the more accomplished modelers helped me learn the terminology and gave me an appreciation for the quality that could be achieved.  I was also able to take away little pieces of "how to do it".  I may not be able to build a whole model like a master, but I can plank like one (that's my story and I'm sticking to it), or I can paint like one, or make thingamabobs like one.
 
    Throwing out a question while bobbing around in the main pool ensures that everybody sees it.  If there was just a beginners section, the question might only be seen by other beginners and those veterans who might specifically be there to do some mentoring. 
 
    I see nothing wrong with the way it is now.  Just my 2 euro's worth.

Cathead:
Yes, IPMS accepts wood models.  As each chapter is pretty much just loosely associated with the  IPMS-USA they all get their charter from the IPMS-USA and must follow their rules that include all models.  There are some that are less accepting than others but I think it's more an area interest in that there are IPMS car clubs where all the members model only cars/trucks and there are aircraft centered clubs too.  But nobody is turned away (at least to my knowledge - and I am sure the national group would not take kindly to hearing of such a practice).
 
The model shown on the current cover of the Journal was an IPMS winner - Best Nautical - at the 2015 Nationals and it took 2nd place in the Recent Master's Competition at the WI Maritime Museum's show.  20 years ago the thought of a plastic model on the cover of the Journal would have had some old timers having heart attacks.  The same sort of thing happened within IPMS when they opened their competitions to all media.  They had to with the use of photo etch, etc.
 
You can check the IPMS web site where they list all the shows scheduled.  You just missed a show in Branson, MO.  The IPMS-Gateway (St Louis) group has their show on September 10.  ipms-gateway.com/invite2016html  I don't remember where you are in relation to St. Louis but this might be something to put on your go to list.
 
Kurt

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm afraid I don't get out much these days, for reasons of workload and budget, and don't think I could justify a trip to model show more than a few hours away. Would love to, but it'd be hard.
 
Do IPMS shows accept wooden models?

Cathead:
Other than IPMS shows the model shows are few and far between.  Model boats/ships have won the top awards at the IPMS chapter I belong to about 4 or 5 of the last 6 years and one of the local club members attended an IPMS event the same weekend as Manitowoc a bit NW of Chicago and came home with 4 of the top awards.  So, while IMPS shows don't have a lot of ships/boats they know good models when they see them.
 
The only non IPMS shows I know about in MO are radio control boats in the St. Louis area by the St. Louis Admirals - I think their regatta is coming up in September.  They have a web site.  I used to belong and drove down to meetings twice a year in addition to the regatta.  The regatta's today are much smaller but they draw some outstanding boats.  The r/c models are very good and are judges on scale merits - but all must run on the water to be judged.
 
David is right, get on I55 north to 294 to Manitowoc next May and see a great show.
 
And check the MSW topic below where everybody can post notices of upcoming shows/contests.
NAUTICAL RESEARCH GUILD NEWS, Model Ship Clubs and Exhibitions and Events, Museums and Museum Ships
 
Kurt

Cathead we have modelers come all the way from New Jersey and Colo.  I think Missouri would be a straight shot.  Just avoid going though Chicago.
  I think you would have a blast and a nice road trip.
David B 

Crisper than a perfect pickle! Glenn, you're making me want to start another steamboat instead of the sailing ship I'd intended next.
 
Is the rising sheer at the stern gentle enough that regular wall planks just bend into place, or did you have to do any shaping?

Thanks everybody,
 
I can't tell you how much I appreciate the comments and likes. The building I work in has been abandoned for the summer -- everyone off working on summer projects. This last week I did not see a single person in the building. Great for progress but it is nice to have contact with individuals with the same interests. Thanks again.
 
Frank, it is your work that has inspired me to strive for clean joinery. Every time I check in on your build I am impressed with your attention to detail and precision.
 
Greg, I was able to do all the planking in two days. I am alternating between this model and the second model. I would glue on one strake with Titebond, clamp it, work on the boiler deck framing for model two, return for the next strake etc. I think I'm wearing a circular trench in the floor of the shop. I watched the This Old House that you mentioned with the pre-fab house. My wife and I were so impressed that we ordered the catalog from O'Conner Homes. I actually mentioned to my wife as we were watching it that working there would be my dream job.
 
Mark, yes, the machinery is complete except for the chimneys, breaching and steam scrape pipe but those will go in after the boiler deck planking. I still need to and the deck bollards, tiller rope, hatch coatings and capstan. Hopefully, I can finish these up next week.
 
Cathead, shaping the planking was not necessary. The sheer is so slight that the planks sit nicely with very little bending. The shape is so simple that I feel a little guilty. Bertrand must have been much more of a challenge. I feel like I'm just planking a box.
 
Once again, thanks everybody.

Great flurry of images! Those Swiss images gave me heartwarming flashbacks to past travel there.
 
Kurt, thanks for sharing that model, too. How does one go about learning about model shows? Are there ever any in Missouri? The only groups I'm aware of in my state are plastic modelling clubs that really focus on aircraft and tanks.

Crisper than a perfect pickle! Glenn, you're making me want to start another steamboat instead of the sailing ship I'd intended next.
 
Is the rising sheer at the stern gentle enough that regular wall planks just bend into place, or did you have to do any shaping?

Crisper than a perfect pickle! Glenn, you're making me want to start another steamboat instead of the sailing ship I'd intended next.
 
Is the rising sheer at the stern gentle enough that regular wall planks just bend into place, or did you have to do any shaping?