dafi
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Everything posted by dafi
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That too is my understanding. As far as my knowlegde is, that with the Victory, the main stunsail booms were hinged to the main channels and the fore ones were stowed in the waist with the other spars. Possibly for not obstructing anchor work. The USS Constellation possibly had another arrangement. xxxCAPTAINdafi Thanks Ian!!!
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I vaguely remember some scenes in MaC where the booms where used also for the handling of the boats, when "parked" beside the ship. Was this a common use? Like the main one on Victory that is in a almost ready to use position? The other question concerns the downward lanyard. Where and how was this one fastened? Hooked into a bolt beside a gunport? Some sheeve going into the hull? XXXDAn
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If Victory kits are mentioned, I still miss the classic Heller one :-) By the form of the hull still the best one imho, best details for the scale, well to be done oob and if one wants to bash, there is plenty of opportunities. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/page-35 Cheers, DAniel PS: OK, forget the instructions ...
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A nice version from Bernd to be found here :-) RE: HMS Pandora, scratch, 1:85 Cheers, Daniel -
I think AOTS and McGowan/McKay give a nice overview about all the sails. I did not check if the details are fitting 100% but it looks like a great base to start with. I would not say that it is impossible to do the sails at this scale, as Blue Ensign nicely proved with his Praetorian. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/152-le-superbe-by-blue-ensign-heller-plastic-built-as-le-praetorian-after-boudriot/ If more details needed, contact me PM. Cheers, Daniel
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Do not apologize Geoff, that is the interesting bit. We model makers are very traditional - means stubborn - and once a thought is set, it is difficult to get it out. But it is worth rattling*** on those believes, or we would still use shrouds with differnt twists for starbord and port as mentioned in Mondfeldt´s "bible". Funnily we have a similar discussion about the color of the ropes in our german forum triggered by the brown ratlines of my build and also there the discussion goes away from the black and white thinking to a renewed written book: 50 Shades of Brown :-) It does not solve the initial question yet about the color of the ratlines. Even if tarred - what color does that mean, most probably not black ... XXXDAn PS: *** no pun intended ;-)
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On top of it the Vic has synthetic fibres. All references should show natural fibers to give a comparison. The colour of the synthetics is a pure design-thing, I do not think that they are tarred or any other substances applied. Perhaps they are still served to avoid chafing, but no reason to protect them against rot ;-) I think the biggest challenge for us is to come away from the thought that tarred means greasy-sticky-thick-black stuff around the rope. Look at the second picture of my entry #38 and you know what I mean. I think that there should be still lighter tarred versions available. Cheers, Daniel
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That´s what I started in the lower deck :-) It is nice, to look through but not having the guns run out like most of the builds. It also gives nice look-throughs with the open ports on the other side. I like the idea that in the upper deck three different ways of lashing the guns has to be shown one beside the other :-) Cheers, Daniel
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Hello Kevin, the guns that do not have a gun port lid are lashed in a run-out position as far as I know, as seen today on the V. in P. The guns in the cabins are usually secured alongside the bords fwd/aft, the other ones most possibly the usual way pointing upwards. Does this help? Cheers, Daniel
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Some picture I found years ago on the net, if I remeber well from the "original" rig of the Batavia replica. Unfortunately no idea who to give the credits for ... From a stay Tarred twine XXXDAn
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Thank you Popeye, that was the part I had in mind and could not find any more. I think there are even contemporary sources that mention the tarring, I believe there was another mentioning in a log entry while the time of Glorious 1st of June or on the road to Trafalgar. Now come the second interesting question: What colour did a tarred ratline show? My personal guess is that it was a light brownish drab darker than the running rigging but much lighter than the shrouds. Is there anybody who has knowledge upon the old craftsmanship of rope making? Any experimental archeologist? Cheers, Daniel
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Very much to be seen: The higher use of brown rigging line in the french modeling à l´arsenal :-) Thanks for showing! XXXXXXDAn
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One blasphemous question: Was there perhaps more than a black and white world that we ship modelers usually dwell in ? Does tarred automatically means pitch black? For the hemp often stockholm tar was used. Depending on how hot the destillation was done, it was from brown to black, if diluted by spirits it was even getting quite clear. And also if applied cold or hot made a difference upon the appearence. Also wide spread was the use of other tarred things, in AOTS Bellona the tarring of the hammock crane covers is mentioned and if I understood well, even rain coats could have been tarred. And if one states that tar is not to be applied where things are held in a bare hand, here is a small feature for the baseball fans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_tar see Use of pine tar in baseball ... ... perhaps the tarred ratlines were much a lighter colour in appearance and perhaps the tar even helped too to have a good grip? And weren´t the tarred hands and feet even a feat for the press gangs to find sailors on the dry? Because of these thoughts I decided to opt for darkish brown on my shrouds and a lighter brown for the ratlines as contrast to the untarred (?!?) running rigging :-) Cheers, Daniel PS: Written parallel with Frankie´s wonderful post! By the way, already someone else wondered about black and white ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lobyPxNisJ8 Enjoy!
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The bloodshed was minimal - at least among the rabbits in the small house in the background of the pictures ;-) XXXDAn
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Today was girls-out-day :-) My sweet little Vic was seeing her big cousin Royal William from kay. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3174-hms-royal-william-by-kay/page-4 Also Edgar the ship´s cat found its way to join the meeting :-) Also both proud dads ... ... were well prepared :-) :-) :-) And then also came Robert*** to join the party ... http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1749-hmy-royal-caroline-1749-by-tarjack-made-from-bone-m-1-50/page-14 ... envy and grudge started to take its toll ... ... and a hard carnage about the meet started ... ... just luckily there was enough for everybody in the end ;-) Thanks @kay and @Tarjack Truely yours dafi *** See also Robert Volk and Peter Davies-Garner book in German: http://www.amazon.de/Arbeitstechniken-für-Schiffsmodellbau-Robert-Volk/dp/3881807047
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Stowing the anchors
dafi replied to dafi's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
I also saw references to more chains being used for security in case of combats. On the other side Nelsons last order was "prepare to anchor after the fight". What did this mean? Already bringing up the anchor cable ?!? Very strange idea to have those prepared and then shot through ... In the meantime I prepared the stream anchor lashing 2.0 :-) As usual, looking around long enough reveales some hints, here Laverys Arming and Fitting page 55. It makes more sense to place the smaler one arm on arm, so no rotating, easy to lash and also the gun port gets a clear view. But still I am a little unsure for the weight hanging on the cannels. I would guess it is a third of weight of both anchors, it is held nicely by the timberheads, but still there is a nice amount on the edge of the thin board, the iron bracket being a bit to the side. I found older sytems on contemporary models with on rope comeing from the timberhead and going round the shaft (appearently without any further lashings) and back to the waist. I would not have dared that :-) XXXDAn
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I like this :-) Daniel
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Merci Mark! Cheers, Daniel
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Nice build :-) Cheers, Daniel
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Some more weekend tinkering. First a small sweet part, a new tie for my little shipyard worker? No a small loop for the surplus rope on the clamp behind the shroud :-) The other ones were left a tad longer. But it was a tough job to place them behind the ratlines. And here the new lashing of the stream anchor 2.0 If one looks long enough, then suddenly: Lavery´s Arming and Fitting page 55, and this makes much more sense. The stream anchor sits neatly arm on arm, can´t rotate, easy to lash and even clears the gun port :-) Grüßle, Daniel
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...okokok... ... they got me, better saying my natural laziness :-) Was hard enough to put the lanyards around the buoy so I used plain rope ... ... even though I knew better that it was meant to be served. So they got me ... ... but I covered the rope with several coats of diluted white glue and splashed some black paint onto it. Perfect for the scale and thickness of the rope :-) Still discussing the color of the buoy rope: The Vic in P. shows light rope and also plenty of contemporary models do ... ... but also plenty show dark ropes. Also in the literature plenty of hints of serving the buoys lanyards, but no mentioning of tarring the buoy rope ... ... but still have luckily the time to research for the big model that´s why I do it :-) Cheers, Daniel
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Thank you Sirs, very appreciated! And before the admiralty kills the buoy believing it is a cockroach with hairy legs I prefered fixing it fast :-) There it hangs on the shrouds ... ... the ropes in nice turns ... ... under the influence of modelmakers gravity ... ... down to where it is fixed on the anchor. And lucky too I was, luckily :-) When I made the buoy I just guessed its size using pictures of the Vic in P. and gave it 1,5 m. Then got panic and searched through the literature which would be the correct size. Took a while until I found in Lee, that it should be a quarter of the shaft´s length. Hastily measured the anchor - 60 mm so my 15 mm are just about fine :-) Cheers, Daniel
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Stowing the anchors
dafi replied to dafi's topic in Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings
Hello Allan, thank you a lot, I have both books, as well as Nares, Brady et al. Also McKay describes several times the set up, but always just the front anchor and the catting, but I find no real detailed clue how the aft one is lashed to the channel. If it is shown, I habe my doubt that that is sufficient, especially with the bigger rates ... Schrade, Marquardt show also no news, just Arming and Fitting page 55 shows a version where the aft anchor is shown. Interestingly it shows the stream anchor also on the starboard side. Here it is interesting, that the arm of the smaller one lies upon the arm of the best bower, thus preventing the small one to rotate. Cheers, DAniel -
... my thinking Jan, exactly my thinking ... ... XXXDAn
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Feeling a bit of a worried mind about the traditionally shown way of stowing the anchors. As seen on the Vic in P. come some loops around the stock and leading to the timberhead ... ... a chain around the shaft and a loop that fixes the palm on the small platform. And now the tricky questions: I wonder about those lashings of the stock. Only some turns around stock (or shaft) up to the timberheads? Please consider that still the weight is transmitted over the "thin" boards of the channels with almost no further support? And then the stream anchor on top? And should the stock of the stream anchor not be lashed onto the stock of the best bower? Would also avoid the steam anchor to turn around and give better view for the gun ... ... so I keep wondering ... ... what would be the correct way? Daniel PS: That the stream anchor usually was carried on the port side I wished to be excused in this display :-)
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