Deperdussin1910

Saw this last weekend at the Mariners Museum and thought the readers of this thread would like.

Saw this last weekend at the Mariners Museum and thought the readers of this thread would like.

This paint thread reminded me of old discussions about the evolution of how colonial Williamsburg changed it's mind about "historically accurate" paint colors.  Basically, they'd been focusing their color palate on faded paint chips.  More scientific computer analysis brought in brighter colors and context to indoor and outdoor paints.  More info here:  http://makinghistorynow.com/2014/08/a-house-of-a-different-color/
 
Side bar:  There is always the problem of some historic districts with large personalities in charge demanding strict adherence to certain colors.  Until shown, those are inaccurate colors.  Science is dead certain about something...until other science dis-proves it. 

Erik,
 
Sorry or the late reply. I did manage to take a few shots today. However, the new site pushes a reddish/pink hue on all of my photos. . I wonder if anyone else has the same issue.
 
I really need to get started on the stand and case. If I don't, the dust will take over and eventually hide the ship completely.




Mike

This paint thread reminded me of old discussions about the evolution of how colonial Williamsburg changed it's mind about "historically accurate" paint colors.  Basically, they'd been focusing their color palate on faded paint chips.  More scientific computer analysis brought in brighter colors and context to indoor and outdoor paints.  More info here:  http://makinghistorynow.com/2014/08/a-house-of-a-different-color/
 
Side bar:  There is always the problem of some historic districts with large personalities in charge demanding strict adherence to certain colors.  Until shown, those are inaccurate colors.  Science is dead certain about something...until other science dis-proves it. 

This paint thread reminded me of old discussions about the evolution of how colonial Williamsburg changed it's mind about "historically accurate" paint colors.  Basically, they'd been focusing their color palate on faded paint chips.  More scientific computer analysis brought in brighter colors and context to indoor and outdoor paints.  More info here:  http://makinghistorynow.com/2014/08/a-house-of-a-different-color/
 
Side bar:  There is always the problem of some historic districts with large personalities in charge demanding strict adherence to certain colors.  Until shown, those are inaccurate colors.  Science is dead certain about something...until other science dis-proves it. 

As geochemist I always try to dig deeper into these things ... Red is used here in Europe too to paint whole houses or the timbers of half-timbered houses. Particularly the country-houses of Sweden in some regions are known for this. The colour there is known as Falu Röd = the Red from Falun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falu_red). Falun was one of the big copper-ore producers since the Middle Ages or even before. Apparently, the pigment is derived from the tailings of copper-ore processing and contains finely dispersed iron-oxides, mixed with accesories, such as copper- and zinc-compounds, perhaps also some aluminium-compounds.
The hue of these iron-oxide based pigments depends on the amount of water in the crystal assembledge and, hence, on the amount of firing. Higher temperatures of firing turn yellow ochre into more reddish to brownish ochres. As noted above, the type of binders and fillers further allow to modify the hues.
Unlike these mineral iron-oxyhidroxide pigments that were cheap and are stable in the light, most organic red dyes were expensive and are not so stable.

I did some research on American paint history, and came up with this narrative. Commercial paints really didn't come onto the market in a widespread fashion until the late 19th century. Before that, paints were hand-mixed (such as on a farm) or at least made in smaller batches locally using grinders. Red was commonly made from a base of linseed oil (produced from flax, a common farm crop), which had an orange tinge. To this was added milk for texture and iron oxide to deepen the color. As a geologist, I agree with Wefalck that iron tends to produce an orange-red rather than a deep brown-red.
 
Several American paint companies offer "historic" collections that were developed with the help of various preservation trusts and other organizations. For example, this collection from Benjamin Moore is supposedly based on 17th-early 20th century colors (i.e. before modern paint chemistry). I was immediately struck by the fact that all of the red shades in this collection do, indeed, have an orange tinge to my eye that fits the narrative about linseed oil and iron oxide. My guess is that their "Audubon Russet" or "Mayflower Red" might be good matches for steamboat red.
 
Given that the vast majority of riverboats in middle America were built on the upper Ohio River, close to extensive sources of iron in the mountains to the east and south as well as extensive sources of milk and flax in the farmlands to the north and west, it makes sense that steamboat red would have followed this palette. But I'm just theorizing based on internet research here, I'm no expert in this regard.
 
EDIT: Mrs. Cathead just asked what I was researching, and pointed out that we have linseed oil, milk (from our dairy goats), and iron oxide (from our bedrock and soils as well as, you know, farm rust) on hand. I may just have to play with mixing up a small batch of "historic" paint to see what I can produce. It'd be pretty neat to color my Arabia with a historically accurate stain.

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 245 – Main Topmast Stay
 
First some backtracking.  The first picture shows a sheer stave being lashed to the fore topmast shrouds. 

I initially omitted these but reconsidered after being prompted by a comment (Thanks, Scott) and checking through some sources.  This is a 1½" diameter wood stave as opposed to the served 1" iron poles on the lower shrouds. The excess ends and the loose lashing ends will be removed later.  This picture shows the starboard topmast backstays.  The next picture shows the 10½" backstays on both sides placed over the masthead.

 Before securing these at the channels below, I decided to install the 9" main topmast stay - for two reasons.  First, it will be easier to use the backstays with their lanyards for final tensioning rather than the forward stay that loops through shackled bullseyes on the deck.  Second, I have been anticipating a difficult task in fixing this stay at the lower end and wanted to get on with it.  In the next picture, the stay is looped over the masthead and being marked at the limits of the upper serving where the two legs will be seized.

 The lower ends of both legs of this stay are also served from abaft of the foremast, down through the bullseyes, and back up to the ends of the seized legs – as will be seen below.  The next picture shows one of the long lower legs being served.

The needle through the rope marls the end of the served length and will allow the thread to be pulled through the rope at that point to fix the end.  The next picture shows the lower ends being fastened to the shackled bullseyes.

Making these ends fast in the tight space was even more difficult than I expected, mainly because I did not allow sufficient diameter in the bullseye holes to easily pass the served line.  I spent almost an hour getting the port leg through the bullseye, including refitting the bullseye into the shackle several times.  The picture shows that side seized and the stay being pulled through the starboard bullseye.  After enlarging this bullseye hole at the start, this side took about a minute.  There is a moral to this story.
 
The next picture shows the completed lower end.  There are four seizings on each lower leg and simulated leathering in the area of the rubbing battens on the mast.

 Another concern I had about this arrangement was clearance between the four large, doubled lines and their fixings in the deck, as well as clearance around the mast.  This all worked out as planned - fortunately.  The next picture shows the upper end of the stay.
 
The next picture shows the full completed stay.
 
With this stay in place, belaying on the fore fife rails may proceed without having to thread these large lines through later, meaning that work can now begin on the yards of the foremast and their many running rigging lines.
 
But first, completion of the main topmast backstays that are temporarily clamped in the picture.
 
Ed

frolick...I hope all is well.
 
"The larger windows have naval upper and lower half-lid-and-bucklers-style ports, just like Constitution had."  If you ever get the chance, I'm sure several of us would enjoy seeing pictures of your naval preparations.

Since this thread is for Steamboats and other Rivercraft, I'll add Show Boats.  My favorite is the James Adams Floating Theater​​ that was a barge towed by two small tugs on the Chesapeake Bay and North Carolina Sounds.  But there were more on the western American rivers.

talos...excellent information.  I really liked the period artist's sketch representing the 1813 colors of the USS United States! 
 
Birch, Thomas, 1779-1851, artist

I crewed on this vessel.  Let me tell you, the first few times going up the rig are breath taking.  I got used to it.  And remember, the rig is moving around even more than the ship.  Doing the same at night with a star filled sky...PRICELESS!

I crewed on this vessel.  Let me tell you, the first few times going up the rig are breath taking.  I got used to it.  And remember, the rig is moving around even more than the ship.  Doing the same at night with a star filled sky...PRICELESS!

frolick...I hope all is well.
 
"The larger windows have naval upper and lower half-lid-and-bucklers-style ports, just like Constitution had."  If you ever get the chance, I'm sure several of us would enjoy seeing pictures of your naval preparations.

frolick...I hope all is well.
 
"The larger windows have naval upper and lower half-lid-and-bucklers-style ports, just like Constitution had."  If you ever get the chance, I'm sure several of us would enjoy seeing pictures of your naval preparations.

Glenn H.,  I look forward to seeing pictures of your progress on SoL AMERICA.

Great work on a wonderful project!!! 

Great work on a wonderful project!!! 

Great work on a wonderful project!!! 

Excellent discussion.  I'd say this information is "copper bottomed"   (I've known of the expression.  But, I don't think I've every heard anyone use it...to my regret.)

I'll chime in to add in the "it depends".  American privateers were a way to make a patriotic investment for potential financial gain.  Civic pride may have deemed some decoration necessary.  Or some decoration may have been added to thank an investor.  That kind of thing goes on today and I feel it may also have gone on back then.

One reason that American Revolutionary War privateers might carry decorations, would be to blend in with the rest of the sea traffic. There is nothing more suspicious that a bland, austere ship edging down on you, giving you an early chance to make your escape. So both merchant built conversions like the Oliver Cromwell (ex-Juno) , and purpose built privateer like the Rattlesnake, were richly adorned, just like the average merchantman would be. 
 
But by 1812, however, the 'baltimore clippers' were so fast and weatherly, that it didn't much matter. Their rig alone would have given them away. The few surviving plans and paintings show them to be rakish, mostly black, plain and sinister looking. The general naval and private style of that period was to replace full figureheads with busts or fiddleheads, and to substitute the stern figures with scroll work and rope tracery, in the "French Fashion". 

I'll chime in to add in the "it depends".  American privateers were a way to make a patriotic investment for potential financial gain.  Civic pride may have deemed some decoration necessary.  Or some decoration may have been added to thank an investor.  That kind of thing goes on today and I feel it may also have gone on back then.

Excellent discussion.  I'd say this information is "copper bottomed"   (I've known of the expression.  But, I don't think I've every heard anyone use it...to my regret.)