leclaire

I wanted to share a project that I have been anxious to get started on for a few years now. When we built our house back in 2019, the Admiral was gracious enough to let me use one of the spare bedrooms as a shipyard in a temporary basis. Well, temporary has turned into a four year homestead. Back when I had first planned an out of the way place to move into, my initial thought was to purchase an unfinished out building and then finish it out the way I wanted. Well, not sure if you have priced any of these new out buildings, but they are ridiculously high, at least around here they are. A nice 20'x12' unfinished wood framed storage shed will set you back about $10K to 15K. Way to rich for my blood. I even looked at used ones, which are cheaper, until I pay someone to move it for me. So I decided to utilize a 12'x20' back corner of our barn. This was agreed upon with the Admiral and so plans were finalized and materials were priced and budgeted. Unfortunately, right after the pricing was done, we had a freak storm roll through and dumped 8" of rain on us in 5 hours. This caused the creek that runs through our property to flood and wash all the leaves, branches and other debris up against the fences and rip them all out of the ground. Well, the shipyard funding had to be used to replace about 400' of fencing, posts and toprails. Then Covid hit and lumber prices skyrockets and again the shipyard was put on hold. Well since that time I have finished up an a couple of builds and found myself complacent in my temporary(permanent) home. But now with lumber prices finally back down to a somewhat manageable cost and being inspired by other land based projects, one in particular @Cathead Outdoor kitchen build has got me chomping at the bit to get off my backside and get this done. So I have put my Caroline N project on a temporary hold while I spend time out in the barn, before the Texas heat kicks in, realizing my plans for permanent shipyard. 
 
So without further ado, here we go.
 
This is the planned corner of the barn where the shipyard will be.

 
Plans that I drew up back during the initial planning stage.

 
Day 1, the materials have arrived. Of course it rained the day before delivery, making things nice and muddy for the delivery driver. The forklift managed to dig some nice ruts in the ground, but the driver was able to get everything unloaded. Now I have a side project of filling in and smoothing out all the ruts and re-growing the grass. But anyway, the materials made it so time to get started.

 
Day 2: Moving all the junk that has accumulated in the corner out and putting up the first wall. As you can see in the below picture, I was so anxious to get started I didn't take the time to get everything out of the way yet.

 
Day three: I bribed my sons and son in law with beer and food to come give me a hand getting the walls up. Cheap labor but very helpful.

Still on day three, more of the wall frames going up.

 

 

Day four:
With my labor team exhausted, it was up to me to trudge on. Now that I had the framing done, I was able to work on the outside walls of the shipyard. I figured what better way to wall in a shipyard than with shiplap.

 

 
Day five. Electrical work. Didn't have a lot of time this afternoon to do much, but was able to get most of the electrical wiring and boxes done and the recessed lighting installed.

 
Day six: Now to the real fun, fiberglass insulation. Even this picture makes me itch. So I gear up in an old flight suit, a throwback from my Air Force days of which I can't believe I can still fit in, and start hanging insulation.

 
That is as far as I have gotten for this week. More to come as I progress.
 
-Brian
 

I think it's hard to do unto others as we'd have them do unto us. It's hard for me not to see Likes as somehow lesser than a written comment, yet my personality really struggles with writing lots of generic "Looks nice" posts if I don't have something specific to say, and so I work hard to remind myself that a Like is a completely legitimate response. Also, sometimes nobody knows the answer to your question. I know I've felt bad about not responding to a question in a build log before, but if I don't feel I can add anything helpful, it doesn't feel right to take up space saying "Beats me".
 
Finally, I struggle to decide where the line between constructive criticism and nitpicking is. We all have different standards for "good enough" and photos can often be very unforgiving, so I don't know how or when to point something that looks wrong to me but the builder might be fine with. I'm also not such a good builder that I'm always comfortable attempting to critique others' work, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard. It's a difficult situation to parse.
 
This also goes back to the tension between the two roles of build logs: as a live community experience of a model's progress, and as an archive of the work that was done. In the former role, lots of comments are welcome and even psychologically beneficial. In the latter, lots of comments are a PITA, as anyone reading through a past log has to wade through lots of irrelevant content. The only other online forum I frequent (a baseball site) has the opposite problem: all comments are essentially live-streamed (they aren't numbered and tagged as at MSW), making it really easy and fun to interact with people but nearly impossible to find past content again. Neither approach is perfect.

One thing Ive seen over and over, within this forum and in others, is that many common questions arise that typically already answered at length in other places.  Any trip to another forum and you will see that asking a question like this normally is immediately followed by some snark comment about you not doing any due dilligence or research.   One thing Ive always appreciated about this forum is that despite some builders clearly not bothering to read other logs, they STILL get lenthy anwers and help from some of the same people whom I know have answered that same question a half-dozen times or more...  so really, I see nothing wrong with how anybody does anything around here.   This forum is already far better than many others...   no complaints at all. 
 
For me, I often totally forget the like button, and actually regret not utilizing it more just to let others know that the work they put into their logs is appreciated, is being read and is still worth doing.   As a relative newb, I rarely have anything useful to add, so try to remember that many of the likes your getting might be from folks not nessesarily ingoring your question, but maybe just are not able to answer it (or if like me, like your question because they themselves have the same one...).  
 
Plus, who am I to critisize your work?  An interesting phenomenom I noticed having read (I think) almost every Longboat build log is that the same people will comment "beautiful job" and "clean work" even though clearly one builder is light years better or cleaner.   To me this is not a dishonestly but rather quite helpful, not only to the builder but also to the continued interest and growth of the hobby.   Truly good criticism comes across in a way that is hard to distinguish, and I personally appreciate the subtlety and the respect people of all skill levels within this particular community show to each other.  
 
Honestly...  this is without a doubt one of the best forums I have ever been lucky enough to discover.   No ego's, clean language, genuine interest in the work and best of all: lots of help....

The pilothouse roof is on.  
 
For the roof supports I used 1/32 birch plywood.  This is much stronger than the 1/32 basswood that I had used for the superstructure panels.

The roof panels are 3/84 maple veneer.  I soaked then in water so I could bend them at the base of the roof.  The panels were standard with a little trimming to fit.  

The finished product after sanding, sealing and painting.  I still need to add the filial on top and make the stirs to the pilothouse

For the next project, I will start at the stern of the deck and build all of the attachments; verge pole, water tank, rafts and safety planks, and five boats.  Some of this will go quickly but the boats may take some time.  
 

I assembled the pilothouse.  Again, took longer and several attempts. Still not really satisfied with it but I will now finally start the roof.  I still need stairs to the door. The interior photo shows the wheel, part of the lazy bench and the radiator.  Speaking tube is hidden in this photo.  I am not certain if there was a compass.  There were references to Thistle missing its landing in the dark or in fog so I wonder if there was one or if it was not used. 


 

I have built the panels and the base along with the wheel.   
 
The wheel was "about six feet across" and Bates said 2 spokes per foot diameter so I needed 12 spokes.  This looks about right for the number of spokes per photos. Photos also had the wheel  about mid-height of the pilothouse windows so I needed to cut into the base to shorten the height of the wheel. Several other photos had the pilot standing outside the pilothouse on the port side while steering. The wheel is close enough to the windows to allow this.  
 
I intend to affix the panels to the base, add in all of the pilothouse parts and pieces (wheel, lazy bench, radiator, speaking tube &c.) and then start on the roof.  I expect the roof will take a few attempts before I get it right.  Some photos did show a visor but I have found none with breast board. I will probably include neither as the pilothouse windows will be closed. 
 
 

G'Day! I am back from over five weeks with Tassies, Aussies and Kiwis.  [a/k/a my family duties] The countries are wonderful but it is really the people that are the most wonderful. But care must be taken at the pubs with the locals and the consumption of "stubbies".
 
It may be another week or so before I can dig out and get back to modeling.
 
 

Hello Brian, I just read this thread from start to finish and I am in awe!  Every time I thought you were adding the last detail you would come up with more.  A truly inspiring build of heirloom quality.  I am just getting ready for my first, a simple steam launch and have learned so much by seeing how you accomplished the level of detail in your model.  Thank you so much for sharing and I am now headed to your next build.
 
Denis

I doubt the ship was dry docked for that amount of time. That would cost a fortune, and cost the commercial shipyard a lot of lost business having a dock occupied for that amount of time. Tied up at a lay-by berth is what they’re referring to.
 
Modern dock supports are steel with wood bolsters bolted in place on top.
I did read that there were high winds at the time the ship was knocked off the blocks so it’s possible that either the blocks were not in the right place, or the ship shifted during the pump out and didn’t land correctly on the blocks. I wouldn’t speculate any further until the MAIB or whichever investigation authority is overseeing this incident, publishes its report.
 
Andy

Interesting question. At almost 80 I am not going to be doing a lot of scratch building (or any for that matter). I have several kits going at the moment and will be lucky to finish all of them before the old hands and brain get to the point where it is time to quit making a mess of things and driving myself crazy. I have a dremel (not a lot of $$) with drilling stand (again not expensive) as well as a disc sander from Menards ($39.00) and use both of them on each build. Other than that there is no need to spend big bucks on more sophisticated machinery. Long winded way of getting to the point - where are you in the pursuit of this wonderful hobby? A long way to go? Then get the best you can afford to make the journey as good as it can be. Otherwise.......... 
 
Bob

Interesting question. At almost 80 I am not going to be doing a lot of scratch building (or any for that matter). I have several kits going at the moment and will be lucky to finish all of them before the old hands and brain get to the point where it is time to quit making a mess of things and driving myself crazy. I have a dremel (not a lot of $$) with drilling stand (again not expensive) as well as a disc sander from Menards ($39.00) and use both of them on each build. Other than that there is no need to spend big bucks on more sophisticated machinery. Long winded way of getting to the point - where are you in the pursuit of this wonderful hobby? A long way to go? Then get the best you can afford to make the journey as good as it can be. Otherwise.......... 
 
Bob

Interesting question. At almost 80 I am not going to be doing a lot of scratch building (or any for that matter). I have several kits going at the moment and will be lucky to finish all of them before the old hands and brain get to the point where it is time to quit making a mess of things and driving myself crazy. I have a dremel (not a lot of $$) with drilling stand (again not expensive) as well as a disc sander from Menards ($39.00) and use both of them on each build. Other than that there is no need to spend big bucks on more sophisticated machinery. Long winded way of getting to the point - where are you in the pursuit of this wonderful hobby? A long way to go? Then get the best you can afford to make the journey as good as it can be. Otherwise.......... 
 
Bob

Interesting question. At almost 80 I am not going to be doing a lot of scratch building (or any for that matter). I have several kits going at the moment and will be lucky to finish all of them before the old hands and brain get to the point where it is time to quit making a mess of things and driving myself crazy. I have a dremel (not a lot of $$) with drilling stand (again not expensive) as well as a disc sander from Menards ($39.00) and use both of them on each build. Other than that there is no need to spend big bucks on more sophisticated machinery. Long winded way of getting to the point - where are you in the pursuit of this wonderful hobby? A long way to go? Then get the best you can afford to make the journey as good as it can be. Otherwise.......... 
 
Bob

Interesting question. At almost 80 I am not going to be doing a lot of scratch building (or any for that matter). I have several kits going at the moment and will be lucky to finish all of them before the old hands and brain get to the point where it is time to quit making a mess of things and driving myself crazy. I have a dremel (not a lot of $$) with drilling stand (again not expensive) as well as a disc sander from Menards ($39.00) and use both of them on each build. Other than that there is no need to spend big bucks on more sophisticated machinery. Long winded way of getting to the point - where are you in the pursuit of this wonderful hobby? A long way to go? Then get the best you can afford to make the journey as good as it can be. Otherwise.......... 
 
Bob

Interesting question. At almost 80 I am not going to be doing a lot of scratch building (or any for that matter). I have several kits going at the moment and will be lucky to finish all of them before the old hands and brain get to the point where it is time to quit making a mess of things and driving myself crazy. I have a dremel (not a lot of $$) with drilling stand (again not expensive) as well as a disc sander from Menards ($39.00) and use both of them on each build. Other than that there is no need to spend big bucks on more sophisticated machinery. Long winded way of getting to the point - where are you in the pursuit of this wonderful hobby? A long way to go? Then get the best you can afford to make the journey as good as it can be. Otherwise.......... 
 
Bob

Interesting question. At almost 80 I am not going to be doing a lot of scratch building (or any for that matter). I have several kits going at the moment and will be lucky to finish all of them before the old hands and brain get to the point where it is time to quit making a mess of things and driving myself crazy. I have a dremel (not a lot of $$) with drilling stand (again not expensive) as well as a disc sander from Menards ($39.00) and use both of them on each build. Other than that there is no need to spend big bucks on more sophisticated machinery. Long winded way of getting to the point - where are you in the pursuit of this wonderful hobby? A long way to go? Then get the best you can afford to make the journey as good as it can be. Otherwise.......... 
 
Bob

"Sir, would you please stop crawling around on your hands and knees and peeling back the carpet"  

These boats were completely welded, no riveted seams.  During WW II Dravo Corporation pioneered the technique of “upside down” construction at their Neville Island (Pittsburgh area) shipyard to minimize the need for overhead welding.  In some cases this involved building the entire hull of a 175ft Navy PC patrol craft upside down and then rolling it over.  These and other advanced fabrication practices would have spread through the Ohio Valley including JeffBoat by the time that Caroline was built.  
 
About 1980 I visited our Neville Island Yard to see a multi head panel welder that they were using. This could weld several vertical stiffeners to a flat steel panel simultaneously.  Hull panels were butt welded and stiffeners added with fillet welds.  Welding was done by the MIg process.  Not all stiffener welds were continuous.  The machine could be programmed for start and stop fillets.  Testing was by high pressure hose.  No leaks OK.
 
So, what’s the point of all this?  With this type of modular construction heavy manual weld seams with heavy reinforcement on the outside of the hull were minimized. Also, the yards had optimized weld procedures to control heat and, therefore, weld shrinkage.  If this interests you I believe that there are a number of papers presented at SNAME (Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers) meetings. These may be available on line.  I would, therefore, suggest that you go lightly on showing external weld seams.
 
 There is also a specific type of model that I’ll call the “Office Model.”  These were and still are professionally built models built for vessel owners.  A subset are built for naval vessels and are prized by high ranking officers.  By convention these do not show weld seams, riveted lapped plates, etc.  Since this is being built for the boat’s owner you might take this approach.
 
Roger

The hurricane deck is now attached. I used Midwest 1/64 birch plywood, scored and painted white on the underside, spray adhesive and tracing paper painted grey on the top. You cannot tell from the photo but the top is lined to simulate the canvas seams.

Now I need to build and then add numerous things to the deck: stacks & pipes, a bell, pilothouse, boats, rafts, water tank, verge and numerous other small items.  The I can add the hog chains and complete the facing.  

Happy to help out John, glad to see that you were able to find some local and avoid that international shipping. It definitely can get pricey.
 
If you are looking for my construction of the paddlewheel, take a look at post #129 on page 5 of this build. That is where it starts and runs for a few posts. As for the dimension of the paddlewheel, in 1:48 scale the outer (larger) rings have an outside diameter of 139mm while the inside (smaller) rings have an outside diameter of 91mm. If you also take a look at post #490 on page 17 of this build,, I have some close up pictures of the paddlewheel frame on the Cairo display that I took last year, you can use for a reference of it's construction.
 
-Brian

Hi Eric!
 
Thanks much.  This is what I did to build them.  I know there are better methods, but it worked for me.  Thistle's railings were much simpler than much of the bric-a-brac on larger steamboats.  Photos on my first post show how straightforward it truly was. 
 
I used the jig and templates below to build the railings.  
The jig on the lower left was used to file cutouts for the railings on the 1/16" square stock used for the spindles and stanchions.  It also provided the correct height for both the spindles and stanchions. The spindles and stanchions were then inserted into the Boiler Deck & Stair Railings templates.  The lower railings were 1/16" square stock cut down on my Jarmac to 1/32 x 1/16 and then inserted into the filed cutouts.  Easy.  The top rail was 1/16 x 1/8 that had rounded edges and was finished with boiled linseed oil.  It fit across the top of the template. Again easy.    The rounded section at the bow required bending over templates and hand fitting.  Took longer but still came out okay.  
 
Again, there are many ways to achieve this but it worked well for me. 
Thanx again, LJP

I have completed the railings and the transverse carlings.  Jigs and templates made this process a whole lot easier. Thistle is actually and finally starting to look like a sternwheeler.
 
My next step will be to add the hurricane deck. The paper cutout on the deck is for the pilothouse.  The pilothouse build will really be interesting.  The pilothouse roof actually had two different styles.  I will use the post-1901 style as shown on the plan in the background as this was the one in use for my time period.  The earlier version had a lip at the bottom of the roof.
 
One of my challenges is that as I look at my Thistle photos for the umpteenth time, or as I get new ones off of eBay, &c., new details or changes are noted.  The parts and pieces will be "circa" historically accurate but will be an amalgamation of several different photos and years. Part of the challenge is that there is no single photo that shows all of the detail needed to build the model.  But I am extremely grateful that there are that many photos, unlike some sternwheelers that have a single or no photo at all.

Brian - I have to say that your idea of "not a lot of progress" is sure different than mine. Looks like a whole lot of cutting and gluing to me. I just spent two full days getting the paint job on the cannons for my Philadelphia to look halfway realistic. Keep up the good work.
 
Bob

Brian - I have to say that your idea of "not a lot of progress" is sure different than mine. Looks like a whole lot of cutting and gluing to me. I just spent two full days getting the paint job on the cannons for my Philadelphia to look halfway realistic. Keep up the good work.
 
Bob

Brian - I have to say that your idea of "not a lot of progress" is sure different than mine. Looks like a whole lot of cutting and gluing to me. I just spent two full days getting the paint job on the cannons for my Philadelphia to look halfway realistic. Keep up the good work.
 
Bob