hamilton

Hi there: I'm working on the Corel Greyhound, but using Goodwin's Anatomy of the Ship HMS Blandford as my guide. Goodwin's book is great, but using it has raised a point of confusion for me. Corel's kit design has the ship's boat (a pinnace) mounted on spars that are placed foreward on little brackets on either side of the belfry, and aft on a gallows bit just before the main mast. Goodwin's book has a different belfry design (the belfry is positioned slightly to port) and there are no gallows bits, but sheet bits before the mast... Goodwin's book seems to trump Corel's instructions/design at many points, but he also gives no indication of how to mount the ship's boat....does anyone have any idea how this might have been done on a 20-Gun frigate of 1720? Any and all suggestions welcome. Thanks a lot in advance. hamilton

Hi Augie: Thanks for the visit! And sorry I haven't dropped by your Syren log for a while! I promise to dedicate some time to it tomorrow! I'm used to homework - giving and receiving - I teach at a university so the concept is familiar! Bye for now hamilton

Hi Blue Ensign: Thanks for the tips! Yes, I agree that the double-black wale with the filling strake looks really nice. At this point, I would like to try to emulate the finishing of the ship that appears on Goodwin's cover (though I may have to subcontract for the decorative scrolls and such). My 4-year-old son was trying to convince me to carve the lion's-head figurehead....but the last thing I carved ended up looking something like a bean, so I don't think that's in my future. The crowsfeet scare me a bit at this scale, but I will give the a shot and see how it goes...Can you tell me if they're considered standing or running rigging...? Black or hemp? Anyway thanks for reading! hamilton

Hello Harlequin: Thanks for the encouragement. The Goodwin book on the Blandford has been a real breath of fresh air I have to say. I think it will be fun to try to incorporate some of the details he shows on the Blandford - in fact, it's possible that this build might turn into the Blandford in the long run.... One photo in Blandford's book shows a model of a 20-gun frigate with the sweeps run out. I find the look of this so captivating that if I can get up the courage I may actually take the time to carve 36 sweeps at 1:100 scale to add this other bit of interest to the model.... Anyway, my limited life experience has shown me that what happens in the world of ideas so often stays there, so who knows....Anyway - what's up with that Bellona! My patience is wearing thin for an update! hamilton

As if the last post wasn't enough - I'll also update a bit of progress - I spent last night prepping the centre keel 1. carving out the gammoning hole 2. Drilling a bobstay hole 3. Marking and carving the rabbet joint 4. Cutting out the seat for the figurehead from the knee of the head After leafing through Goodwin and Lees, I'm going to add two more features this evening and then do some reading: 1. Drilling a second bobstay hole 2. Drilling a hole at the top of the stem for the main stay collar That will be that - nothing really glamourous, but the books have made me a little more inspired for this build after the great disappointment I've been feeling given hurdles this kit presents...and I'm getting excited to make some modifications and bash this kit up a bit....bye for now hamilton

Well a bit more progress on the Greyhound to report....but first, I thought I'd show off a couple of new acquisitions These both came in the mail today - and the timing couldn't be better - it's meant to rain all weekend, so how better to while away the hours.... I've leafed through both already and can see that the Lees in particular will continue to be an invaluable resource. The Goodwin book has been illuminating as well on a few specific points: 1. The open bulwarks at the waist, with the frame timbers used as stanchions for the rail - a feature I may use on this build 2. A series of oar sweeps following the waterline at the level of the lower deck - I'm thinking of finding a way to frame these out and add them using the system Chuck Passaro suggests for the sweeps on the Syren 3. An outboard hatch just beside the outboard ladders at the level of the lower deck - presumably for hauling supplies in and out - I think I'll try framing and adding this, too. 4. an anchor lining on the forward channel - also an easy add 5. The main wale features a thinner filling strake, though the diagram says "c. 1719" - the solid built wale is also dated "c. 1730" - so it's a little unclear whether the solid built wale corresponds to the 1719 Establishment, or whether the filling strake would still have been used....any ideas out there? I kind of like the look with the filling strake.... 6. Crowsfeet on all three masts - which I'm not sure I can easily do at this scale, but which I'll try... 7. The belfry on the forecastle is towards the port side with one timberhead to the port side and three to starboard, allowing for ladders up to the forecastle port and starboard - I will definitely add these, as in the Corel plans, there is no indication of how the forecastle would have been accessible at all.... It's possible that if I want to stay as true as possible to the 1719 Establishment I'll have to add a solid wale and close off the bulwarks, but I'll need to do a bit more research on this - unless someone has a quick answer.... I've also noticed some discrepancies between Lees accounts of the 20-Gun ship of c. 1719 and the Goodwin text: 1. Lees lists 2 bobstays on a 20-Gun of 1719 - and while Goodwins drawings show two bobstay holes on the stem, he only puts one bobstay on... 2. Lees has guys p/s on the jibboom, with a running tackle eye-spliced to the spritsail yard, running through pendant blocks spliced to the end of the jibboom, back through blocks on the spritsail yard and held fast on bow timberheads 3. Lees belaying illustration for a 20-gun ship of 1719 has a very different deck arrangement than the Blandford/Greyhound. His illustration shows a vessel that clearly has a square beakhead bulkhead and a foremast on the forecastle, while the Blandford and the Greyhound have a rounded bow and the foremast on the main deck - though in other elements, the two books agree so some sense might be cobbled together from both 4. Goodwin has main sheet bitts as well as the main jeer bitts - something missed by Corel, but also represented differently by Lees. I think I'll follow Goodwin here. 5. Lees illustrates horses on the bowsprit that run through a stirrup spliced to the forestay and held fast to a bow timberhead with a deadeye-lanyard set-up. I had thought of adding footropes to the bowsprit, but since neither Lees nor Goodwin mentions these, perhaps there were none...I'm not entirely sure what function the horse played....any ideas? Anyway - sorry for the long post! I guess I'm just excited to have these new resources to peruse....bye for now! hamilton

Thanks for this detail Harlequin! This strategy makes a lot of sense. I'll be returning to this for sure when the time comes.... hamilton

Thanks Harlequin, but don't worry too much about it. I will cross that bridge when I get to it...I had the same problem envisaging the stern area of my Toulonnaise a while back, but once I started things got clear....this is a pig of a kit, though....I'm reminded of a quote from a movie I once saw about a crazy ring - "how can something so small cause so much fear and doubt?" True perhaps of many a model! hamilton

These are perfect - thanks Harlequin! Great job, too! Can't wait to see your Bellona as it develops! Quick question - are the angled planks attached directly to the stern face of bulkhead 13? I'm guessing they must be...I just can't imagine having that much space to work with down there myself, considering how much I've had to shorten the main deck at the stern....I also think I'll have to plank this area before second planking on the hull, again for structural reasons.... As I said, I think I might have to modify my planking at stern/counter, since I had to modify the main deck at the stern to accommodate bulkhead 13...here's a shot or two to illustrate. You can see how the stern edges of the main deck and quarterdeck are now at quite a remove - the plans show the transom running parallel to bulkhead 13, but this will not be the case on my build....unless I modify the quarterdeck as well, which will shorten the model by about 3-5mm.... You can also see how little room there is for the transom supports underneath the main deck extension...I'll have to modify these, and this will also reduce the space available for the curve of the counter....all in all, I'm not sure I made the right choices in modifying the main deck - though the only other choice I had would have been to build an entirely new centre keel, which is well beyond my skill (apart from having no tools for such work)..... Anyway, thanks so much again for the pics - they clarify a lot! hamilton

Thanks for the tip Harlequin: Yes there's a lot of prep to do here! I will certainly darken those frames! Now that I've dry fit everything and marked the bearding and rabbet lines (mostly at a guess), I've noticed that a couple of the forward frames are also well short of the mark..... Also - Harlequin, I've been trying to puzzle out the stern and transom area, specifically trying to imagine the planking of the lower transom (below the decoration) and the counter. Do you think you could post a shot here of the transom on your Greyhound so I can have a peek at how you did it? I'm just a little worried, since after my modification of the main deck at the stern (so that it would fit onto bulkhead 13) the counter area is now too short or that I'm going to encounter some further problems down the road.....always a possibility! Anyway thanks again for the tip and in advance for the photo! hamilton

Great description, Janos - thanks a lot! hamilton

This sounds like a simple yet very effective method - the benefit of the adhesive seems obvious - now that someone has pointed it out to me! I'll give this a try hamilton

Well, I have taken a bit of time this morning juggling work and modelling and have managed to quickly shape the bulkheads to fit the skinny lower deck piece, and widen out the bulkhead slots on the deck for dry-fitting... Of course this revealed a number of other issues with the kit design - some minor, like these: And some seemingly major, like this: It's clear that the bulkhead slots on the deck will need to be modified to fit bulkhead 13. However, given the amount of widening that needs to be done, I'm worried that this will create a lot of instability in the stern framing (those little slots at the aft end of the deck are for the vertical stern frames)....sheesh, Corel! What were you thinking?! Anyway, I would rather this log not turn into a running set of complaints about the quality of the kit....at least these kinds of things present a decent challenge - perhaps a little more "stimulating" than the (probably non-existent) "perfect kit".... Here are a couple of photos of the dry fit to this point....just to add some sense of progress here.... hamilton

I nominate Harlequin to start the whiskey tutorial! As for cutting new bulkheads....that would be tough....if there were an accurate (or any) drawing of the hull lines included on the plans I could probably sort it out, but the main issue is tools - I'm a dining room table modeller, so for the present anything involving plugs and copious amounts of saw dust is not something I can really do.....soon though....soon....For now it's shimming and filling....but thanks for the encouragement Augie - it's much appreciated! hamilton

Thanks Augie and Harlequin: Augie - yes, something is definitely not right! If you look at the picture that shows the tops of the bulkhead frames, you'll see that they are all more or less level (though as I mentioned a lot needs to be done here), but at the bottoms of the bulkhead, these two (9 and 10) are roughly 3/16" higher than they ought to be..... Harlequin - your solution makes sense. I've done this same thing on a number of builds, though never with such a gross error. It's going to take a lot of .5mm planks to build this area up, but that is probably the best way to keep the general contour of the bulkhead and thus the lines of the hull....like you, I will proceed with making the framework and not deal with these until I have to at the first planking - when I'll probably also discover some other minor errors. Maybe it's time I learned how to drink whiskey..... hamilton

Hi there: I've officially begun the Greyhound and can already say that I feel driven to drink, just as Harlequin predicted!! Here's a digest: 1. I used the kit-supplied templates of the CNC parts (sheet 4 of the plans) to ascertain how much trimming and shimming the bulkheads needed (given how profoundly off the plans were with respect to the keel, I didn't even bother with that - I'm just going to take the CNC keel as-cut as my baseline reference point and go from there). They all needed something more or less - not unexpected in any kit, I suppose. Here's a representative sample 2. I then began to dry-fit the bulkheads to the keel - focusing my efforts solely on getting a good fit between these parts & not really paying attention to the outboard parts of the keel, the inner parts of the bulkheads (which define the rather skinny lower deck), or the inboard bulkhead extensions. Not to say there isn't any work to be done there - as you can see from this shot 3. It took a couple of evenings work to dry fit all 13 bulkheads. Everything between bulkhead 1 and 8 seemed alright, but when I fit bulkhead 9, I noticed something - the bottom of the bulkhead was significantly higher than the bottom of bulkhead 8, even though both should have hit a (currently imaginary) bearding line at an equal distance from the bottom of the keel...when I first fit it, I thought that there was no way that the bearding line should be sweeping up at that point on the hull... 4. When I fit bulkheads 10 and 11, I could easily see that something was wrong - the bottom of bulkhead 10 was at the same level as bulkhead 9, but bulkhead 11 struck at that same imaginary bearding line as bulkhead 8 had done....Check it out. Having built a number of kits before I've had to do my fair share of shimming the outboard edge of bulkheads to get an even flow of planking, but nothing like this!! My main concern now is that, with no line drawings provided with the kit, I actually have no idea how to shim up these bulkheads and maintain a clean flow of the planking....And if I just follow the bulkhead templates they tell me that these bulkheads are correct, when clearly they are not!!! Another worry is that once these 2 bulkheads are "corrected", I will also need to "correct" the bulkheads aft...not a "worry", I suppose, but just a lot of niggling work with no reference to work from! If this were my first Corel kit I would probably never buy another....Anyway, advice, encouragement, and mail order alcohol (same day delivery if possible) are all welcome at this point..... hamilton

Hello everyone: So I've completed my revision of the detailed parts list, rigging table and belaying plans for the Corel HMS Greyhound. I would like to offer these to anyone entering into this build (free, obviously), if you would like. I can't promise they will be useful, since they come out of my brain in relation to the inadequacies of the Corel kit as I have perceived them...but they may be of help.... Anyway, if anyone wants these, send me a PM and I'll send them on as PDFs. hamilton

Great job on the companionway! And on the build on the whole. hamilton

Excellent work Harlequin! I hope I can get mine looking this good. I admire your tenacity in re-doing things that you're not entirely satisfied with - too often I just decide to live with them! I'll try to take a page from your book. Anyway - really nice to look at! hamilton

Well, Harlequin, I never properly learned how to drink whiskey - though I know my way around a Tom Collins or a Manhattan....we'll see how bad it gets! Augie - I have to say that I'm surprised with the low quality of this kit. I've built 3 Corel kits (the Brittany Sloop, the Flattie and the Toulonnaise) and I have the Bellona up on the shelf. The ones I've built were really top notch and the Bellona certainly is of very high quality all around. It seems as if the Greyhound was a bit of a rush-to-market or something - hastily put together and so rather sloppy. The illustrated instructions remind me of the booklet that came with the ME/Amati Bluenose I built last year - also vague and frustrating, though on a much less complicated build. If Corel beefed up the plans (adding at least 3 sheets - one separating out the hull profile/deck plans to give more construction details and showing the bow and stern; one for standing rigging and scale mast details; one for running rigging and spar details) this would be a great kit. The quality of the wood and fittings is up to the usual Corel standard. A bit more effort would make this a truly excellent kit.... Anyway, now that Harlequin has pointed out his attempts at using other ship's boats, I'm worried that the one I ordered won't work out....oh well! It's only $8 right? I can't allow myself to have ME on speed dial or I'd be building my boats out a cardboard box.... hamilton

Hi Harlequin: Thanks for the encouragement! Most definitely needed with this kit! But you're right - I think it will look great with a few "improvements". I've actually ordered a small plank-on-frame ship's boat kit from model expo which is roughly the same size (about 1/16 off the size of the metal boat included with the kit). It only cost $8.00 so I figured, why not! I was already ordering extra 1/8" eyebolts, black rigging thread, shroud cleats, and a bunch of other stuff, so.... I was actually thinking of dealing with that forward rail by tracing the pattern and cutting it out of a slightly thicker-than-it-has-to-be sheet and then sanding it down to a more appropriate thickness...or perhaps doing it in 2 port and starboard sections and just filling the gap between them. One part of the kit that is extremely vague and that I haven't come to terms with yet is the bowsprit seating....It appears that the bowsprit just kind of goes into the deck....but there is very little guidance from Corel on this....I may throw you a question or two when the time comes, hope you won't mind the interruption to your Bellona (which I'm really looking forward to seeing, by the way). Thanks again and bye for now - maybe eventually I'll actually start building this kit!! hamilton

Good evening! Well, against all sane advice I've pressed on with my complete revision of Corel's documentation. I have now finished my revised parts list and my preliminary rigging tables (the latter is subject to change based on what I learn from the literature I've ordered....). Here are some highlights: 1. Corel's instruction booklet gives no indication of the size/length or features included on the masts & spars, so I've added all of those to the list 2. I've also added some features omitted altogether (like spritsail yard jeers, some cannon rigging elements, etc.) 3. I've allowed for the scratch building of several parts (the ship's boat, the f'csl rail, e.g.) - breaking these parts into components 4. The rigging plan is sequential and individualises each rigging element (block, ringbolt, timberhead, deadeye & sheave) I'm not sure that what I've done will be useful to anyone but myself, but if anyone is interested in having it just for reference, I'd be happy to share - send me a PM with your email and I'll get them out (not sure where to "publish" them here and given that it is very "kit specific" I'm not sure how appropriate it is to do so.....) The major issue with my revisions is that they make Corel's plans and instructions superfluous, so it would be hard to use both this and the Corel stuff at the same time. I had thought for a while of redrawing the plans, but I have only done this in order to develop a belaying plan (in 2 sheets, one for the deck and one for the inboard and outboard bulwarks). I figure that if you ignore the numbers on Corel's documentation and just take measurements where necessary these should work.... Anyway, perhaps it's nuts to spend so much time doing something like this, and I guess it probably wasn't necessary to have such an extreme reaction to a poor set of plans/instructions...but I already feel better about building this kit now that I've done this - and I found a great number of errors and pitfalls that I feel I can work around having done such a detailed review of the kit.... Here are a couple of shots of the deck plan that I made this evening to map out the belaying arrangement based on Corel's drawing and my parts list/rigging table....it's pretty rough....but... hamilton

Definitely one to follow! I'm tempted to start my Bellona now so I can have someone to build with! But I don't think I have the skills yet to match the beauty of this ship....I'll be following this with great interest! hamilton

Hi Dave: Though my name's hamilton, I've never been to Hamilton - I was born in Montreal, grew up in Fredericton, New Brunswick and have lived for the last 17 years (minus 4 between Montreal and Seoul) in Vancouver. As for Lees, thanks for the references! I just got an email saying that the expected delivery date is April 27!! How will I wait? Anyway, maybe I'll do some yard work for the next month to pass the time..... hamilton

Thanks a lot Jay - the funny thing is I was looking for this thread last week when I was finishing off a build and wanting some suggestions for rope coils! It'll definitely come in handy on the next one. hamilton