Don9of11

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This is an interesting post as I have often wondered about my own 74 project and plans I'm developing, where I am following the information found in the Shipwrights Vade Mecum as the principal source, Ree's Naval Architecture and others. Some of these sources are public domain and I'm not tracing or copying from any existing drawings but drafting everything from scratch. A very interesting topic indeed.

This is an interesting post as I have often wondered about my own 74 project and plans I'm developing, where I am following the information found in the Shipwrights Vade Mecum as the principal source, Ree's Naval Architecture and others. Some of these sources are public domain and I'm not tracing or copying from any existing drawings but drafting everything from scratch. A very interesting topic indeed.

Its really  a VERY simple answer.  Dont Use the Ancre plans at all. Dont use the Ancre drawings at all .  You can learn a great deal from those books as a reference and source of inspiration but rather than replicate them and adding more to them....simply pick a 74 gun ship other than those from a plan by La Charpente....get the original drafts of a similar 74 and draft your model plans from them, using the knowledge you have gleaned from the Ancre books and other sources while avoiding any copying/duplication at all.  Thus you will have created an original Kishmul set of plans that are entirely your own.
 
Otherwise you would be really walking a thin line ....If you have the knowledge and skill to fill in the blanks that are missing from someone elses efforts....then certainly you would also have the chops to not use someone elses efforts as a starting point, and instead...simply flush out a whole new project from A thru Z ......rather than take A thru M from someone else and then supplement with your own N thru Z.    
 
Chuck

I'm not that familiar with Adobe Illustrator but as with any software there is a learning curve. It might be best to work on something simple until you learn where the tools are that you will need. As far as the file size and depending on how large the image or pdf might be, you could import small sections, draw them and slowly piece your drawing together.

Saturday 28 JAN 2017
 
It has been I while since I posted any progress... it goes rather slowly.
I've been putting more hours into a paper for work than into my model... plus I am getting injections in my left eye to correct a condition with my vision.  It has affected modelling and  my day job.  I spend hours reading engineering drawings and documents.
 
I have branch retinal vein occlussion caused by macular edema.
I have a fluid build up (bump) at the back of my eye very near the focal point that causes lines and print to pull together.
I occasionally still see a fine black dot due to my last (first) injection.  Two more to go and hopefully the fluid pocket is gone and things reshape back to near normal or better yet.. normal.
 
Modelling isn't a race but it does keep calling me downstairs.

Most likely you are dealing with a copy of a copy of a copy and as such nothing is likely parallel or straight. I found the best thing you can do is establish your perpendiculars, the correct length, breadth and depth of your ship and scale your plans to fit as best you can to those parameters. You'll then need to make some assumptions and educated guesses, create you own water lines and diagonals and make the best of it. In the end your plans will be fair and workable.
 
Warning... with CAD there is a danger of wanting make everything supper accurate and super fair. Little deviations here and there can slow your work down to a crawl and drive you mad...lol.

You cant use auto trace...its just not accurate.  It also creates too many nodes in your lines.  Unfortunately there are no shortcuts and these "quick-fix" auto functions are just a way to do the job quickly and rather sloppily.  The only way you will be able to really do an accurate job is to import the image and trace over it while making corrections yourself.  Then as Druxey said, use diagonals and waterlines to fair and correct your traced lines.   It is a very time-consuming process but its the only way you will be sure its correct before you start making sawdust.
 

 
I usually import an image and scale it to whatever the scale is I am working on...say 1:48.  But others find it easier to make the drawing full size so they can use the real measurements from Steele or a builders contract.  I use Corel Draw X8.  It works great and once you become proficient with using the dozen or so tools and functions needed it goes well.  You can use small tricks and methods to speed up the process.  I have taught several people over the phone how to use CD and in person.  I can usually get them to the point where they can work on their own with good results in just a few hours.  But they must understand lofting and fairing and ship design before they start using the software or the lack of architectural knowledge usually does them in.  Its easy enough to learn the software....much more difficult and time consuming to learn and understand how draft frames and proof out and fair your lines, along with adding all of those important details not shown on an original draft or simple plan original.
 
In the image posted above for example, you can see the original draft I will begin drafting and tracing over.  Also added to the workspace is an image of a similar contemporary model.  This is also scaled up to the same size as the draft.  Rather than flip back and forth to a photo on a different file or on paper, having the photo right above my work is an excellent and convenient reference.  I can quickly examine the contemporary model for features not shown on the draft or incorporate and design my parts to mimic those on the model.  For example, I can quickly use the model to design the joints between the stem and keel to closely mirror that models construction because its right above my workspace and not shown on the draft.
 
I usually have many more draft copies and photos in my workspace than shown here but this is how I work up a set of plans....once at a pont to fair the frames or correct inaccuracies in the draft I can hide those images while I create my own half-breadth plan or whatever third view I need to prove out my lines.   I use waterlines and diagonals to correct my frames while creating my own Half breadth view from the body plan and sheer plan I traced.  
 
Chuck

I'm not that familiar with Adobe Illustrator but as with any software there is a learning curve. It might be best to work on something simple until you learn where the tools are that you will need. As far as the file size and depending on how large the image or pdf might be, you could import small sections, draw them and slowly piece your drawing together.

Most likely you are dealing with a copy of a copy of a copy and as such nothing is likely parallel or straight. I found the best thing you can do is establish your perpendiculars, the correct length, breadth and depth of your ship and scale your plans to fit as best you can to those parameters. You'll then need to make some assumptions and educated guesses, create you own water lines and diagonals and make the best of it. In the end your plans will be fair and workable.
 
Warning... with CAD there is a danger of wanting make everything supper accurate and super fair. Little deviations here and there can slow your work down to a crawl and drive you mad...lol.

I'm not that familiar with Adobe Illustrator but as with any software there is a learning curve. It might be best to work on something simple until you learn where the tools are that you will need. As far as the file size and depending on how large the image or pdf might be, you could import small sections, draw them and slowly piece your drawing together.

Generally I like working with out the dremel. I find when I do detail work I like a tool that is about the size of a pen or pencil and I can control the amount of pressure I use. I guess because I can feel the wood and it's resistance to my pressure. A dremel is a little bigger and much heavier thus making it a little awkward and the feedback of the motor makes it almost impossible to feel the wood. There are some clever jigs that have been created that employ the dremel for a miniature lathe to a router. There is nothing wrong with your dremel, it's always a nice tool to have in your shipyard.

Generally I like working with out the dremel. I find when I do detail work I like a tool that is about the size of a pen or pencil and I can control the amount of pressure I use. I guess because I can feel the wood and it's resistance to my pressure. A dremel is a little bigger and much heavier thus making it a little awkward and the feedback of the motor makes it almost impossible to feel the wood. There are some clever jigs that have been created that employ the dremel for a miniature lathe to a router. There is nothing wrong with your dremel, it's always a nice tool to have in your shipyard.

Generally I like working with out the dremel. I find when I do detail work I like a tool that is about the size of a pen or pencil and I can control the amount of pressure I use. I guess because I can feel the wood and it's resistance to my pressure. A dremel is a little bigger and much heavier thus making it a little awkward and the feedback of the motor makes it almost impossible to feel the wood. There are some clever jigs that have been created that employ the dremel for a miniature lathe to a router. There is nothing wrong with your dremel, it's always a nice tool to have in your shipyard.

I needed to make a half dozen fire buckets for my project so I took a few photo's to show how I made mine. Once I had a size in mind I made a pattern and cut some thin brass to that shape. I than tinned opposite ends and opposite sides. So that when the brass is rolled into a cone the tinned ends will be face to face. I used a tapered dowel to help form the rolled cone shape for soldering. The rolled forms are a little long/tall for triming down later. Using a block of wood with a hole drilled just shy of bucket height and snug at the top i than placed a ring of wire around top of bucket and soldered in place. using the tapered dowel while soldering ring in to place helped line things up. Should come out looking like this. the next step was to cut out small disc of brass that was just a bit bigger than the bottom of bucket. with the disc on the end of the tapered dowel a bucket was lower over the end and pushed the disc to the bottom of bucket but not clear thur. Just enough of a lip to solder it in place, Some clean up with files and paper is next. Lastly some paint and install handle. Not sure when it became the practice of painting fire buckets red or if there ever was a rule to do so. 

Brian
 
Since I am currently rigging my Model Shipways Niagara, I felt compelled to put in my two cents worth. First off, your Niagara is wonderful and I hope that you get back to it. I can tell you that it does not take much in the way of rigging to bring out the magnificent beauty of the ship.
 
I have followed your build log very closely to guide me through the hull and deck construction. Your work is exquisite.
 
I have complained about the rigging instructions in my own log for the very reason you identified at the beginning of this post. Sheet 5 and 6 are indeed hard to follow since all of the sails are overlayed onto the rigging plans. But it caused me to do my homework. I had to learn how a ship works, and how and why a ship is rigged the way it is. Most of that was done on this forum. As a model ship builder thinking about doing future projects, it is an exercise worth the effort.
 
I decided that I had to make a plan.  I decided to do ALL of the standing rigging FIRST.   That is all of the shrouds and stays. I decided to start with my bowsprit and foremast , working from the bottom up on the foremast, and inside out on the bowsprit. Parcelling out the standing rigging from the integrated plans is a little easier than it first seems. If you start there, take your time, and like me, refer to the wonderfully descriptive build logs on this forum, I believe you will succeed, and the farther you go, the more skill and confidence you will gain. AND more importantly, your ship will begin to really look great. 
 
The running rigging was a bit more complicated. However, start with a plan. I broke the running rigging into two categories. The lines that attached to masts and yards (lifts, halliards, braces, slings) which I decided to do ALL of, and the lines that attach to sails (sheets, buntlines, clews, reefs). The plans are pretty good when it comes to the running rigging that attaches to the masts and yards.  It is there, albeit, buried underneath some of the sail diagrams. As far as the rigging that attaches to sails (when you decide to rig without sails), there is nothing, other than a reference in the instruction manual advising us to tie the ends off on the yards somewhere???
 
I have seen Niagara builds that totally omit the running rigging that attaches to sails. They look great. I decided to do some of this rigging, focusing on the clews and sheets.  i just tied them off on the yards.  I don't know it if is right, but it looks ok to me. And it adds another layer of running rigging that looks great on the ship.
 
 I am a true journeyman in this hobby, who makes all kinds of mistakes all of the time.  However, if you decide to embark on the rigging on your Niagara, and I truly hope you do, I would be more than happy to help you as best I can. I have tried to take good photos of my rigging experience, and label each of my posts to help future Niagara builders to find a particular part or exercise. 
 
And finally, let me say this.  Once you tackle the Niagara rigging plans, and get some experience, you will find ALL future plans, for whatever ship you work on next, to be a lot easier to follow.

Here's a method of sorting and storing wood I came up with over the holidays:
 
At work, I found a cardboard box that was used to ship a computer keyboard - it's long and not too tall.  I cut the top lid off, and then cut that lid into strips about an inch wide.  Then, I glued those strips into the bottom of the box to create channels - apply some labels and most of my wood is sorted.  Cheap and quick to create.
 
If I find another box, I can make a second one and just stack them together.
 

 

Here is my solution.
 

I just finished laser cutting the Yellow cedar he dropped off yesterday.  The Alaskan Yellow Cedar is such a wonderful wood to laser cut.  The parts are for a second barge I am building which will be made entirely out of the yellow cedar.  I hope to have pictures real soon but I am really enjoying working with it.
 

 
If you are looking for a light golden/yellow wood that is easy to work with I do recommend you give the yellow cedar a try.   The top board has some Wipe on Poly on the end.    It makes teh color come out nicely. I should have the planking done this weekend so you guys could have a better look at teh stuff as part of a model. 
 
Chuck

Please welcome and thank Wood Project Source for becoming a sponsor of Model Ship World.  WPS supplies milled wood sheets and strips along with carving blocks for many hobbies.  Their specialty is Alaskan Yellow Cedar Sheets and Carving Blocks.  Other species like Yellow Heart, Purple heart, Butternut, Applewood, Dogwood and Mahogany are soon to follow.

 

They also carry the staples for our hobby like Boxwood, Swiss Pear and others.  They are just finishing up their new website so please have some patience with them as they continue adding more wood species and products to their online store.  They have many more than I listed.

 

I have personally bought from them many times as they are close by and I gotten to know the owner.  I have bought some Yellow Cedar and Boxwood from them and will say that I am very happy with the quality of the wood.  They have fantastic prices and they are the lowest I have seen for some wood sheets.

 

Please join me in welcoming them as a sponsor of MSW.

 

Visit their site and check them out.  I am grateful they decided to become a sponsor and didnt hesitate after I asked them about it.

 

www.woodprojectsource.com

Chuck, these carvings look very thin. What precautions did you take to keep from breaking them?

Most likely you are dealing with a copy of a copy of a copy and as such nothing is likely parallel or straight. I found the best thing you can do is establish your perpendiculars, the correct length, breadth and depth of your ship and scale your plans to fit as best you can to those parameters. You'll then need to make some assumptions and educated guesses, create you own water lines and diagonals and make the best of it. In the end your plans will be fair and workable.
 
Warning... with CAD there is a danger of wanting make everything supper accurate and super fair. Little deviations here and there can slow your work down to a crawl and drive you mad...lol.

Most likely you are dealing with a copy of a copy of a copy and as such nothing is likely parallel or straight. I found the best thing you can do is establish your perpendiculars, the correct length, breadth and depth of your ship and scale your plans to fit as best you can to those parameters. You'll then need to make some assumptions and educated guesses, create you own water lines and diagonals and make the best of it. In the end your plans will be fair and workable.
 
Warning... with CAD there is a danger of wanting make everything supper accurate and super fair. Little deviations here and there can slow your work down to a crawl and drive you mad...lol.

Most likely you are dealing with a copy of a copy of a copy and as such nothing is likely parallel or straight. I found the best thing you can do is establish your perpendiculars, the correct length, breadth and depth of your ship and scale your plans to fit as best you can to those parameters. You'll then need to make some assumptions and educated guesses, create you own water lines and diagonals and make the best of it. In the end your plans will be fair and workable.
 
Warning... with CAD there is a danger of wanting make everything supper accurate and super fair. Little deviations here and there can slow your work down to a crawl and drive you mad...lol.

Most likely you are dealing with a copy of a copy of a copy and as such nothing is likely parallel or straight. I found the best thing you can do is establish your perpendiculars, the correct length, breadth and depth of your ship and scale your plans to fit as best you can to those parameters. You'll then need to make some assumptions and educated guesses, create you own water lines and diagonals and make the best of it. In the end your plans will be fair and workable.
 
Warning... with CAD there is a danger of wanting make everything supper accurate and super fair. Little deviations here and there can slow your work down to a crawl and drive you mad...lol.