Tony Hunt

Like Clipperfan, I recently visited the Mystic Seaport and got to admire Ed's wonderful model of Young America.  It's even more impressive in real life (which is really saying something!) because of the fine scale - the detail and sense of grace that he has achieved at 1:72 scale is amazing.

I think Howard Chappelle redrew this plan and published it in one of his books - probably The American Sailing Navy?

3 hours ago, Maxthebuilder said:

simply outstanding and so beautiful , a work of art.

I second that motion!

Aha. What a modern yachtsman calls a preventer. Why didn't I think of that?  I've used one hundreds of times!

Dr PR, I agree with all you've said too!  There were so many variations on the theme, it's impossible to name them all, and yes, many nautical terms are used interchangeably. Especially in different regions that have different traditions. I think my main point is these schooner courses were running sails, set when the wind was coming from astern.

On 5/28/2025 at 7:39 PM, Ian_S said:

...In my case, I'm more interested in the small coastal trading topsail schooners in Australia & NZ  about the end of the 19th century up to their demise (as topsailers) in the 1930s.

That's my first post here. For the record I am a researcher and not a ship modeller, but I can see the point of modelling as a kind of test to see if you've really thought through the technical details to the point that the whole article is fully resolved.

Ian Scales PhD

Canberra, Australia

Hi Ian

Nice to see another Australian researcher here!  My main interest is pearling luggers, but I've spent a fair bit of time on the Australian merchant schooner fleet too. And various other things - easily sidetracked, I am. 😀

On the subject of courses on schooners, and the rig of schooners vs brigantines, I've always been of the understanding that schooners don't carry courses, in the true sense of the word. I understand a course to be a permanently-bent part of the suite of sails on a square-rigged mast. They are typically wider than they are deep, which means that they have relatively short leaches. This allows them to remain set even when the ship is sailing into the wind, with the weather tack hauled forward by the bowline to keep the weather leach taut. The foremast of a brigantine is primarily a square-rigged mast, with the lower mast rarely more than ~30% of the total height of the mast.

By comparison, the foremast of a schooner is primarily a fore-and-aft rigged mast, with some square sails added, and the lower mast is relatively tall, usually at least 50% of the total height of the foremast.  For this reason, the lower squaresails sometimes set by topsail schooners are almost always much deeper than they are wide. This means it would not be possible to have the sail set acceptably if the ship was beating into the wind, as the long leach would inevitably twist and flutter. Spinnakers have the same problem on modern yachts.  Consequently, these square lower foresails (for want of a better name!) were only ever used with the wind coming from abaft the beam - i.e. as running sails.  On schooners, the primary sail on the foremast is the fore-and-aft sail, either a gaff foresail or a staysail if it's a staysail schooner.

On references, my favourite schooner book is Basil Greenhill's two-volume work, The Merchant Schooners. 

There are quite a few photos of these vessels in various collections, there surely must be one that shows one of these lines in use. Especially since they would most likely have been used when in port, where photographers most often lurked.

It seems to be a 20th century innovation. This picture of the Hally Bayley from the A.D. Edwardes collection (probably late 19th century) doesn't seem to show them.

I love a puzzle, and those are really intriguing images - both paintings and photographs. 

In some of the photos the forward end of the line appears to be attached to the outside of the hull approximately at the line of the deck edge?

I've no idea what they could be for. Fascinating!

PS -  I like Jim Lad's suggestion. Better than anything I could come up with!

It's starting to look magnificent Valeriy! Such a beautiful hull,long and lean.

I suspect the top-down view (plan view) may be drawn at the level of the deck (i.e. the top of the wale), not the level of the sheer strake. Hence the discrepancy.

That's a big moment in any ship model's life.  The equivalent of launch day! Congratulations. I hope you had a glass of champagne handy when you finished?

Gotta love a single!  Interesting wheel configuration, alloy front and wire spoked rear. Don't see that often.

I think the headlight might need a new globe, too! 😃

Unbelievably beautiful craftsmanship. It hurts my eyes to look at it! 😀

It is indeed a wonderfully detailed image from a very useful vantage point - if only you could trust the details!  In addition to the anomalies you point out, the cross-wise planking on the poop seems a bit strange too!

What a superb model. Thanks for sharing the build with us Valeriy, it has been a pleasure watching every step of the way.

Superb work Ilhan.  The cabinetry is wonderfully regular and symmetrical. Just like the real thing!

Those jibs look very realistic indeed. Nice work!

Great pictures Valeriy. They really illustrate how things worked. So valuable when building a detailed model like the SS Blagoev.

Looking good!

Valeriy, those tiny hooks for the cargo handling equipment are fabulous!  I really admire your propeller soldering jig too.  The SS Blagoev is looking almost complete - how much more to do before it's finished?

Jmiba, can you suggest a good tutorial to use to get started 3D modelling ships in Blender?  There are way too many on Youtube to choose from!

Thanks Terry, Jmiba and CCClarke for your replies.  Interesting insights!  I'll give it a crack and see how far I get.

Hmmm. Methinks I haven't explained myself very clearly!  I'll try again.

The idea was to create a sketched 3D rendering of the hull, using the photos to get the shape approximately right, then use the clever ability of the 3D software to view the resulting 3D shape from the same viewpoint as the photographer who took the picture and overlay the rendering onto the picture.  Kind of like the beautiful 3D rendering of the the pearling lugger PENGUIN (see below, done by a real Naval Architect, not me!) but much simpler.  Any discrepancies between the rendering and the photo could then be noted and adjusted, until the two aligned perfectly. Yes? No?  It won't work for the underwater shape, of course, but should be possible for everything above the waterline.

She's fairly typical for that period and that location. A lot of the early luggers were remarkably small. A surprising number were built overseas, in both Singapore and Hong Kong, and also in New Zealand.  I guess Hong Kong isn't much further from Darwin than Sydney is!

I think you could certainly use some of the plans already in existence as a starting point, then use the photos to refine them. There was a wider range of shapes and styles of pearling luggers than most people appreciate, and the point would be to create a series of small waterline models that illustrated that range of diversity.  Yet another project for the future! 🙄