gulfmedic1

As stated above it takes a library, albeit a small  one to get started.  Great advice has been given above.   I highly recommend Goodwin's The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War and Brian Lavery's The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War 1600-1815.  For rigging, there are several, but the best by far, and I think many would agree, when it comes to explanations and accuracy, is David Lees' The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1860. 
 
There are also free sources that are useful.
The formulas in Lees' book for sizing masts, spars and lines have been put into a spread sheet by the late Danny Vadas and available here at MSW in the Articles data base.  It is spot on except for the period from 1670 to 1711 where he did not use the right initial formula so everything is completely wrong for that time span and should not be used.
 
To learn how to properly plank ships of that era the 4 part You Tube Video by Chuck Passaro and the article Primer on Planking by professional ship modeler and author David Antscherl, both of who are members here,  which can be found here at MSW in the Articles data base are hard to beat.  
 
Even if you are kit building, these articles and books will help you immensely.  
 
And there are thousands of free low resolution contemporary plans and photos of models on the RMG Collections site as well as free high resolution versions of nearly 1000 of these (along with about 2000 low res) on the Wiki Commons site.   https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ship_plans_of_the_Royal_Museums_Greenwich
 
It is all part of the journey and should be a most pleasurable one.
 
Allan
 
 
 
 

Thank you all very much 

I do like the time line 1700 to 1800

As Jaager points out, it does take a library.
 
If like many forum members, you are interested in Nelson era sailing warships, an oldie but goodie is Longridge’s The Anatomy of Nelson’s Ships.  The book is greatly enhanced with George Campbell’s excellent drawings.  The book describes construction of a model of HMS Victory so it blends modelmaking techniques with Victory’s anatomy.
 
Roger
 
 

I’ve written a new book entitled “ship Models from the Age of Sail: Building. And Enhancing Commercial Kits” that might be helpful to you.  It was just published by Seaforth Publishing in the UK and Naval Institute Press in the USA.
 
it’s more about kit building so describe planking and rigging, and name kit parts.  For the names of actual ship timbers in detail, then Peter Godwin’s books are best. 
 
cheers,
 
Kerry Jang

Afternoon everyone,
Well its been quite a while since I have been on here. I started the Phantom back around 2014 and quickly realised I had no idea what I was doing and no Idea about wood working. Of course life happened and the build went to the wayside. 
 
Now my son has left home and joined the Navy, my daughter is growing up, so I have a bit more time to myself now and have an outlet to escape to. I am in the process of setting up my build desk in my sons room. (dont worry I still have his bed so when he comes home hes not on the floor) lol. Since Ive been gone I actually have done quite a bit of wood working from wood turning, building and carving. So I think Im a little better prepared for my build, note I said "little". I reorder the plans for the Phantom due to the ones I had got messed up pretty good. As soon as I get the build desk fixed up Ill start posting pics of where I am in the build and go from there. Its good to be back with such a great group of people.
 
 
thanks Scott

I also would recommend Monfelds as your first book purchase. I have a dozen or so books and more often than not I find what I'm looking for in his book.
Richard

It takes a library.  It helps if you specialize as to era and ship type i.e. wood vs steel   sail vs steam
 
To dip your toe in:

Historic Ship Models
by Wolfram zu Mondfeld
 
Neophyte Shipmodeller's Jackstay
by George F. Campbell
 
The CD sold here covering the back issues of three journals  have much information.
 
 
 

The best general reference I've found is zu Mondfeld's Historic Ship Models.  It concerns mostly warships of English, French, and American ships.  It has some errors but it's good starting point.  
 
As for hull planking and shaping on model, you would probably want a different book if practical advice (how-to) is needed.

absolutely beautiful work

Afternoon everyone,
Well its been quite a while since I have been on here. I started the Phantom back around 2014 and quickly realised I had no idea what I was doing and no Idea about wood working. Of course life happened and the build went to the wayside. 
 
Now my son has left home and joined the Navy, my daughter is growing up, so I have a bit more time to myself now and have an outlet to escape to. I am in the process of setting up my build desk in my sons room. (dont worry I still have his bed so when he comes home hes not on the floor) lol. Since Ive been gone I actually have done quite a bit of wood working from wood turning, building and carving. So I think Im a little better prepared for my build, note I said "little". I reorder the plans for the Phantom due to the ones I had got messed up pretty good. As soon as I get the build desk fixed up Ill start posting pics of where I am in the build and go from there. Its good to be back with such a great group of people.
 
 
thanks Scott

Dave we were given quite a revealing presentation about 2 years ago by a modeler who had developed a plan, defined the materials set and wrote the construction manual for a model available on the market today. The creator related that it was an iterative process in which he saw numerous deviations in many aspects of his design. A number of the deviations were with the manufacturing process i.e compromises in parts for whatever reason. He took much heat from the community at large for the deviations.
 
Why do I bring this up? Older kits and their drawings suffer some of the same ills, possibly more. Supposedly prestigious archival drawings and renditions in some repositories have been challenged by researchers. I came across this on my abandoned build of the Corel HMS Unicorn. When a design is reduced to a kit there are so many ways things can get out of wack that it isn't even worth listing them. Presently, I am working on a 1980's era model, a very expensive one, and I am finding drawing errors, omissions and the like.
 
We all have become more astute at this pass time and have imposed higher standards on what we accept as "bible". My advice to you is to establish a datum with the body plan. Let the given dimensional data guide you on what you pick as the reference. Have the drawing scaled to meet those dimensional requirements. Redraw/recreate the profiles to the correct scale if you need. Corel Draw is a handy way to get you there as you can scan in the profiles and manipulate them. Of course there is always the research avenue to aid you in resolution of inconsistencies. Perhaps the Peabody Museum may have some drawings you may avail yourself to as I see a reference on the drawing to East Boston.
 
Joe

Afternoon everyone,
Well its been quite a while since I have been on here. I started the Phantom back around 2014 and quickly realised I had no idea what I was doing and no Idea about wood working. Of course life happened and the build went to the wayside. 
 
Now my son has left home and joined the Navy, my daughter is growing up, so I have a bit more time to myself now and have an outlet to escape to. I am in the process of setting up my build desk in my sons room. (dont worry I still have his bed so when he comes home hes not on the floor) lol. Since Ive been gone I actually have done quite a bit of wood working from wood turning, building and carving. So I think Im a little better prepared for my build, note I said "little". I reorder the plans for the Phantom due to the ones I had got messed up pretty good. As soon as I get the build desk fixed up Ill start posting pics of where I am in the build and go from there. Its good to be back with such a great group of people.
 
 
thanks Scott

I looked at the thread for ship building books, theres a lot of stuff there. Is there a good book on solid hull ships

Where at in La are you located Zach, Im in central La

Hey Gang,
Hope everyone is doing well in 2022!  I wanted to share a little bit about two Christmas gifts I got for my wife (and myself =).  One is the Patrick O'Brien Series, which is a beautiful collection of tales including Master and Commander, etc.  A lot of complaints have been made regarding the print size and the thin paper, but it is quite an amazing compilation of sea novels set in the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic Wars, and centered on the friendship of the English naval captain Jack Aubrey and the Irish–Catalan physician Stephen Maturin.  I also bought her A Sea of Words: : A Lexicon and Companion to the Complete Seafaring Tales of Patrick O'Brian, written by Dean King, John Hattendorf, and J. Worth Estes.  Surprisingly, she actually loved these gifts!  They both are truly beautiful works, and the Sea of Words is full of useful information regarding nautical terms, etc., with awesome drawings (albeit few and far between).
 

 

 

Sorry for the questions, Its been a while since Ive been on the site. What is Chucks syren company is there a link

Your jigs for making the rivit heads on the copper look like they are nails or pin but when I look at the copper plates they have outward rivits but your tool you used to mass produce them look like your stamping on the copper side not the tape side so wouldnt the rivits be indented sorry if im looking at it wrong

The copper plating of the hull is finished. After
experimenting with different nail patterns I finally settled for one. The
following images show the hull preparation, the production of the nail head using a variation of
Alan’s method with the diabetes needles, and the resulting copper plating.
 

I first prepared the hull by filling every hole with wood
filler, treating the hull with MinWax Sanding Sealer and sanding it down to a
very smooth finish.


To produce the nail head I designed the desired pattern with
MS PowerPoint, shrank it to the right scale and printed it out (image 2.1). I
glued the image of the nail pattern on a piece of 3mm thick balsa wood which in
turn was glued to a thin piece of plywood. I made sure that no glue was between
the balsa and the plywood under the area where the printed image of the nail
pattern resided. Using a #80 drill (~0.3 mm diameter; Micro-Mark) and a micro
pin chuck (Micro-Mark) mounted in my drill press I drilled the holes for the
nail pattern (image 2.2). The soft balsa wood allows the thin drill to proceed
without bending. Once the drill hits the hard plywood the drill channel in the balsa
wood acts as a guide for the thin drill ensuring that it enters the plywood
without being deflected or bent. Next I removed the metal needles (~0.3mm
diameter) from the plastic heads of the diabetes needles bought at Wallmart
with a pair of pliers and inserted the needles into the drilled holes (image
2.3). Pushing the balsa wood surface against a flat piece of metal ensures that
all needles end in the same plane (image 2.4). The needle ends sticking out of
the plywood side were glued together with JB Weld (image 2.5). Now the nail
head can be cut out according to the drawing glued on top of the balsa wood.
The balsa wood surface is then sanded down until all needles show a complete
diameter perfectly aligned in the balsa wood plane (image 2.6). As a next step
the balsa wood can be separated from the plywood (for this reason it is
important to have no glue between balsa and ply wood underneath the nail
pattern drawing, see image 2.7) and the nail head is finished.
 
 

Experimenting with different nail patterns. The 3 nail heads
in the front were used for my model – one for starboard, one for backboard, and
a symmetric one for the dress belt.
 

The “Sensipress” (Micro-Mark) came in handy for the copper
plate mass production.
 

Resulting copper plate pattern.
 
 
Here are some additional views of the copper plated hull:
 
 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much Druxey, Chris, Steve, Patrick, John, Keith and Moab.  I truly appreciate your support, interest and generous comments.
 
And as always, thanks to everyone stopping by and hitting the like button.
 
 
More Pilothouse Roof Stuff
 
Unfinished from a previous post is a rain slicker that I wanted to hang on the pilothouse coat rack.  I received some great suggestions from Druxey and Chris on possible approaches, but I just couldn’t get it right.  I ended up using polymer and even though I’m not thrilled with it, I’m going to surrender and call it done.  At just over ½” tall, this is the result.

The navigation lights are made of styrene and approximately 1/4" tall.  I begin with the basic size and proportion requirements.
 

From this I select the four different shapes and sizes of styrene that will be needed – 2 tubes, a rod and some flat stock.
 

The rod and tubes that were selected are roughly the correct sizes and closely fit into one another.  This defines the top of the housing.
 

A window is cut from the largest tube and the flat stock is used for banding.
 

The interiors are painted red and green and colored 0603 SMD LED's are soldered up and inserted.  Clear Gallery Glass is used to hold them in place and simulate the lenses.
 

Directional light blocking boxes (I don’t know the proper term for these) are made up, painted and weathered.  The NAV lights are glued in.
 

The searchlight is made up of styrene and brass.  The bullet shaped housing is formed of .01" styrene.  The tip of an ordinary construction nail was filed and polished to the desired shape.  It was then heated and the styrene formed over it.  A white 0603 SMD LED is inserted.  It is painted with enamel and weathered with acrylic.  A water based weathering is used so as not to effect the underlying enamel.  
 

An air horn is made up which scales to about 18” in length.  It too is made of styrene.  The cone of the horn was made of a tube that was a larger diameter than required.  The tube was heated in the middle and pulled to form the cone shape.
 


Painted

A pair of 1411 LEDS is placed up between the roof rafters for general interior illumination.
 

Everything glued onto the roof.
 
 
 There will also be a pair of brackets attached to the roof for holding a dory.  But I’m holding off on that until the dory is made.
 

Thanks for stopping by and taking a look.
 
Gary

Thank you John, Keith, Druxey, G.L., Maury, Valeriy and johnp76 for your kind comments.  I really appreciate it.
 
And thanks to all for stopping by and hitting the like button.
 
That's a good suggestion Druxey, I'm going to give it a try. Thanks.
 
 
Pilothouse Roof #1
 
One of the first decisions I made in modeling this boat was the time period in which it was built.  I chose the 1920’s to early 1930's for a couple of reasons.
 
First, it was during this time period that these Western-rig boats were developed and came into wide spread use in southern New England.  The inshore fishery was abundant and fish landings were strong.  So there's an element of historical nostalgia to it.
 
Second, the era predates exterior plywood.  Manufacturing of plywood as we know it today dates back to 1905, but waterproof adhesives wouldn’t be developed until 1934.  So wooden boats were still being stick built with solid wood.  And I prefer the detail and visual interest of individual boards to sheet goods.
 
Images of boats from the 1950’s and 60's show mostly pilothouses with simply constructed flat roofs.  This is possible due to the extraordinary strength and durability of marine grade plywood combined with epoxy coatings.  In contrast, the drawing below shows how earlier cabin roofs were constructed.
 
The curvature of the rafters gave the roof strength of the arch, water shedding and esthetics.  Waterproofing was typically achieved through a covering of canvas/pitch or a rubber membrane.  The 1 x 1 strips secured the edges of the covering.  
 
I began by making the eleven arched rafters.
 
By creating a circle in CAD that describes the arch, I was able to bend material for all the rafters at one time.  I cut the individual segments and positioned them on a template drawing.  These rafters are placed on one foot centers which seems a bit of an overkill, but as a mechanical engineering friend of mine would say "when in doubt - make it stout.”
 
 
I then planked the top and added the fascia.
 
I’m going to simulate a rubber membrane roof covering.  I did not sand or level the roof surface because I want the individual boards to show through the “rubber.”  The surface was painted black and tissue paper will be used for the covering.
 
A thinned down PVA mixed with charcoal colored acrylic paint was liberally applied to the roof.  The tissue paper (gift wrapping type) was applied to the wet roof and then more of the same PVA mix applied to the tissue.  I jabbed at the tissue with a stiff paintbrush to create the wrinkling effect.
 
Edge trim was added and white pigment powder scrubbed in around the perimeter.
 
Roof scuppers were added to the aft corners.
 
Next post will be navigation and search lights.  Thanks for stopping by.
 
Gary
 

Pilothouse Interior #3
This update will complete the pilothouse interior.
 

There will be a separate switch somewhere on the display base to operate an interior cabin light, so I need to provide some interior details.  The question for me is always - how much detail is enough?  The level of detail found in the real world is simply way beyond my ability to recreate.  So instead, I try to suggest detail and depend on the mind’s eye to fill in the rest.
 

I began with the door, which will be open.
 

I drew it up along with a bolt pattern for the strap hinges that would typically be attached to the rails on the reverse side of the door.  The door swings inward and up against the wall so the hinges won't be visible and therefore have zero detail.
 

I first made up some hinges from styrene.  They are scale 4” wide.
 

The door itself was made up from four strips of wood glued to three rails.  It was then positioned on the backside of the drawing template so I could mark the hinge bolt locations. 
 

Once the door was colored, I blackened the pinholes that simulate the hinge carriage bolt heads.  This was done by poking a very fine dressmaker’s pin into the tip of permanent marker then placing it into the hole and giving it a little twist.  A pinhead is used for the doorknob.
  

The hinges look too large to me.  After the exterior siding and door trim are placed, I'll re-evaluate.  If they still look too large I’ll try coloring them to contrast less with the jamb.   
  

Under the window is a coat rack.  I intend to hang a coat or rain slicker there, but simulating material with the correct texture and drape at this scale is a challenge and needs some rethinking.  So for now, it remains empty.
 

I made a cabinet with a flat upper drawer for charts and what not.
  

I installed the cabinet and added a top and a few rolled up charts.  Also shown here is a fold down seat for the skipper and a vertical grab iron between the windows.
 

This model will be displayed as a vessel under repair.  And repair work requires repair parts, which often come in corrugated boxes.  So I’m going to place a couple of them under the coat rack.  I’ve played around with different ways to model small boxes before and always come back to the most simple - folded paper.
 

So I start with a drawing of an unfolded box complete with printing. 
  

The most difficult part of this process is getting the color right.  Using gauche in a very watery mix of yellow ochre, burnt sienna and grey produced an acceptable result.  Any color medium that doesn’t bleed the lettering will work.
 

I then cut the "boxes" from the paper and folded them up.  But simply folding and stacking them produced disappointing results.  They looked like what they were - little pieces of folded paper pretending to be boxes.  They need to look like they have weight.  So I modeled the larger box to look as though it had been wet at one point and the smaller box was thrown on top. 
  

The cut out in the floor provides access to the engine room, galley and berths.  There is a ladder/stair that descends down, but only the top tread is visible from any cabin opening - so that is where the modeling stops.
  

That completes the interior and I’m glad to be getting out of such cramped quarters.
  


Thanks for taking a look.
 
Gary
 

looks good

wooo hoooo pirate ship