Kusawa2000

Just a quick update....Today I completed the qdeck rail on the starboard side.   Uneventful and all parts were laser cut.
 
I will detail the step by step.  All Parts are laser cut in groups.  I thought it would be easiest to build if completed in sections.  The laser cut parts for each group are labelled as such...M-1 and O-1 and L are the parts for the first section....then working your way aft you will use the parts M-2 and O-2 for the second section etc.
 
The first section of rail is the most finicky but I will try and explain.
 
The first section of rail (parts L, M-1 and O-1)  
First I glued the various parts together in the photo below.  Just like the fcastle rail,  finish the timberheads on all four sides.  Then glue the fancy curved pieces to the notched rails so after painting them black you wont see the seams.  

Once painted black, the first lower section was dry fit on the drift in the waist.  Dont glue it on yet.
 
But you will also notice in that same photo,  the longer post and short post on the qdeck sheer.  These are actually painted ahead of time and glued in position.  I found it easier to have these glued in place so the the assemble behind it can be slipped into position.  This is the other assemble we made earlier.
 

To complete this first section of the fancy rail, dry fit this section on the cap rail.  Dont glue it on yet.  
See below.  Note how the forward end connects with the lower rail on the drift.   These should look like one continuous rail.  I added some wiggle room so you can sand the aft end of the lower rail so it will be flush.   That is why you shouldnt glue any of them in yet.  Mark it with a pencil and sand the aft end until its flush and looks like one rail.  This will be easier to understand as you guys are also doing it...I understand that it is difficult to write about but you will see what I mean once you get to this step.  
 
When you get everything to fit nicely,  you can glue it all in position permanently.

Then moving aft it gets easier.  Each additional group just contains two longer uprights, the rail, and two timberheads.  
The photo below shows on of these sections already completed.  This was section 2.  Section 3 of the rail is in progress.
 

In the same photo above you will see the two longer uprights painted and glued in position.  Again,  I found it easier to complete this way.  Behind it you can see the center section with the timberheads waiting to be inserted between the two long uprights.
 
One NOTE....the longer upright in each group (in this case section 3) are different lengths.  The uprights get shorter as the work their way aft.  Make sure you glue them into position in the correct order.  Shorter ones are aft.  
 
Then add the center assembly which has been already painted.  Also make sure its facing the correct direction.   It will only fit one way.  The timberheads should be vertical and as such have angled bottoms.  Make sure each upright and timberhead are vertical and because of the angled bottoms facing the correct way.
 
The photo below shows the center inserted...
 

Continue in this fashion for all five sections of the rail.  Then the top rail can be added.  It comes in two sections. On fancy piece on the forward end and a long length of rail to the transom.  I found it easier to attach both pieces together and sand them.  Then pre aint it black.   You will have to adjust the aft end to fit against the transom stern frame.
 
Also note the fixed block that sits on the cap rail against the transom.  Your rail in the fifth and final section sits on this block.  A small laser disc is glued into the slot of the fixed block.
 

This can be finicky but manageable if done a section at a time.  Its not a plastic kit so you will have tweak the angles and shift some timberheads to get them to look just right.  Remember the timberheads and uprights on this rail should be vertical.   Make sure the longer uprights are all the proper height which they should be before you put that top rail on.  You dont want a wavy top rail.  So DONT sand their lengths at all.  They are all precision laser cut to the proper lengths.  Test the top rail before gluing it on.
 


This is a task that requires that you go slow....there are a lot of things to watch out for which wouldnt make any sense at all to you if I wrote about them now.  But once you start building this rail please dont hesitate to ask me a lot of questions.
 
Any questions or comments??
 
 

If anyone asks you why Monty Python is so funny even today, ask them to tell you about their worst story of customer service and then play them the "dead parrot sketch"... a lot of things just dont change.... 🙂 
 
Mike Draper

Yves,
I just watched the Wellington Trust video presentation on models in the collection of the Royal Maritime Museum by Curator Simon Stephens. He showed two photos of their magnificent model of the Bellona. They might serve as an inspiration, or might make you want to give up. They have been posting previous lectures here:
 
https://www.thewellingtontrust.org/whats-on/events-past-lectures-and-exhibitions/
 
Today's lecture was recorded and should be up soon.

Craig: You can also buy the sessions all together (which a friend of mine just did) or in batches (session 1,2 session 3,4 and then session 5) or separately. The shipping is cheaper if you buy all of the sessions at once. 
 

Planking of the hull is now over. Phew !!! That was a major task !
 

 
An enormous amount of sanding needs to take place but that will be for later.
 
Let's take a look at the instructions from CAF Model: 
 

 
The above steps have all be completed, although in a different order:
- Step 5
- Step 6 verification.
- Step 4 (minus part 24 which will be glued much later on).
- Step 9 (wales)
- Step 3 (planking of the hull)
 
 Hull has been planked and coated internally, with epoxy resin. The stern has been built (it was actually built before the planking) and the Part #25 has been glued. On the other hand, I am not placing part #24 yet, as it includes eight windows and would be automatically broken at this stage (not sure why the instructions only shows 6 windows...go figure....).
 

 
To coat the inside of the hull and protect the wood in the long term, I use an epoxy resin: easy to mix, odorless and fluid enough to be brushed inside the hull: 
 

 

 

 
Planking the hull was done in a very conservative way and I would recommend this approach. The wood strips provided in the kit are not of great quality. Quite a few strips did split, providing me with two nice triangular shapes, that can come handy occasionally. Technically, the planking would require a set of 25 planks from keel to wales and three sets of planks per side (Bow, stern and side), or the equivalent of 75 planks. CAF model provides exactly 150 strips of 3x8 mm wood. Some of the planks (a small number fortunately) were 10 mm wide, some were made of a very soft wood, some made of very hard poplar or white wood. Basically a lot of disparities in the strips.
 

 
Because of that, I went with a very conservative route and tried to use as much as possible the left overs and cuts. I managed to plank the entire hull with exactly 103 strips and have 47 left of various qualities.
 

 
The next set of instructions calls for the following: 
 

 
Although I have glued the rear decks, I disagree with the approach of gluing all decks at this stage and prefer to wait until the hull is completely done. After a thorough sanding of the hull, the flotation line should be marked and coppering (tiling - A) as well as a light second planking (0.4 mm thick) in the visible wood sections, should be made.
 
Step #9 has been done in part, as the wales (B) were glued before the start of the planking. Upper hull and channels (C) will come later (see below): 
 

 
I am going to take a break on this hull, in order to try to finish the 3D printed Corvette that I have neglected for a few months. In the meantime a few pictures of where we stand: 
 

 

 

 

 
Hope you are enjoying this massive build log.
 
Yves
 
 
 

Well it has taken me quite awhile but I have finally arrived to this milestone.
The last two frames went in early this morning... and everything looks much better.
Now to finish marking off the gun port locations, install chocks, etc., etc....
 

My lower mast tribulations:
 
I had previously made my lower main mast as per Steels, Mast Making (1794), Volume 1.1, Tables (dimensions) and plates (drawings) 2 and 3.
I began creating my fore and mizzen lower masts using calculations from formulae in the same publication while referencing plates 2 and 3.  This is when confusions began to arise.  Some calculation did not agree with the table figures and the figures did not completely agree with the descriptions.  For example, the bibs and cheeks are smaller on the drawing then as calculated.  Similar dimensional differences were realized with the main top (platform).
 
So I had to employ "artistic license" and massage the drawing so the two smaller masts didn't outshine the main mast that I'd already made.
Then came the length of the front fish.  Steels plates clearly show them extending below the orlop deck on the main mast, and not so clearly on the foremast for a 74 but quite clearly on a 36 gun ship, so I added it on my 74 foremast.  However there doesn't seem to be a front fish on the mizzen mast.
 
I checked other builds and most don't have this type of detail, or they show the improved shortened and narrowed paunch that came to be about a decade later.
 
I checked my books, the  Anatomy of Nelson's Ships by Longridge shows the short narrow paunch from a decade later.  AOTS Belona by Lavery (figures H) shows no front fish or paunch at all.  Masting and Rigging OESOW by Lee, which are observations on historic models, (section 1, Part 1, page 2) disagrees with Steels plates, stating the length of the older style front fish or paunch on the masts stopped above the upper deck. Then (page 3) states the mizzen mast was not fitted with a front fish as a permanent fitting, but did have a rubbing paunch (?).
I decided to make all my lower masts similarly.  My mizzen mast being so much smaller would have a less prominent front fish.  I also continued my woolding hoops to just above the partners (upper deck) on the mizzen mast, not as shown in Steels.
 
For those interested, below are my drawings for my lower foremast, mizzen mast and their tops.   My drawings print on 8-1/2" x 11" (A size) sheets of paper and are at 1:64 scale.  Each mast drawing is on two sheets that need to be taped together.  The "splice line" is clearly identified.
fore top layout.pdf mizzen top layout-Model.pdf Foremast Cheeks+Fish+Bands - sh 1 of 2.pdf Foremast Cheeks+Fish+Bands - sh 2 of 2.pdf Foremast Layout - sh 1 of 2.pdf Foremast Layout - sh 2 of 2.pdf Mizzen Mast Cheeks+Fish+Bands - sh 1 of 2.pdf Mizzen Mast Cheeks+Fish+Bands - sh 2 of 2.pdf Mizzen Mast Layout - sh 1 of 2.pdf Mizzen Mast Layout - sh 2 of 2.pdf

Henrik; Two things.. dont get stressed out about the overlapping of the plates.. the thickness of the plates that Caldercraft supplies its not possible. If you were using copper foil like from a stained glass shop it would work but not with the plates that come with the kit. Do make sure they are snug with each other so that the wood underneath doesnt show.. 
 
as far as the dimbles in the copper plates.. they are a bit more pronounced than they need to be. But I think they work for the Agamemnon. In the future if you feel they are too much you can substitute the copper plates with stained glass tape or take the existing plates and hammer the nails in a bit with a hobby hammer on a flat hard surface. it does make a difference. 
 
Good luck with your Aggy.. looking good! If you are in for more work you should add sails I have with my Agamemnon. 🙂 
 
Mike Draper

Henrik; Two things.. dont get stressed out about the overlapping of the plates.. the thickness of the plates that Caldercraft supplies its not possible. If you were using copper foil like from a stained glass shop it would work but not with the plates that come with the kit. Do make sure they are snug with each other so that the wood underneath doesnt show.. 
 
as far as the dimbles in the copper plates.. they are a bit more pronounced than they need to be. But I think they work for the Agamemnon. In the future if you feel they are too much you can substitute the copper plates with stained glass tape or take the existing plates and hammer the nails in a bit with a hobby hammer on a flat hard surface. it does make a difference. 
 
Good luck with your Aggy.. looking good! If you are in for more work you should add sails I have with my Agamemnon. 🙂 
 
Mike Draper

Hi
 
I am pleased to announce that after a long wait, the monograph of Mahonesa is now available at ANCRE.
This is a Spanish frigate from the late 18th century, built by the engineer Onorato de Bouyon, in the arseal of Mahón, on the island of Menorca, Baleares - Spain.
The monograph includes all the carpentry plans to be able to make a model of arsenal, a book of 170 pages with the history of the frigate, explanations for its construction, the comments of the plans and the disembodiment of all its rigging.
 
The purchase link at ANCRE:
https://ancre.fr/en/monograph/123-la-mahonesa-fregates-espagnoles-1789-9782382820131.html
Currently available in French, Italian and Spanish, 
Available in English from February 22, 2022
 

 
It was a long wait, but in the end it was published, I hope the work I have done with enthusiasm will be to your liking.
 
Adrián Sorolla
 
 
 
 

Chuck: Thanks for the reply! Will be looking forward to the release of chapter 3!
 
MIKE 

Chuck: FIrst.. I hope Santa was good to everyone and their tool drawer is nice and full.. 🙂 With the presents open and breakfast in my belly I had a chance to catch up on Chucks posts and I have one question. I assume the laser cut pieces for the galleries will be become available for purchase or do I need to turn on my carving (or lack of) carving skills? I assume if there will be a laser cut set it will become available with the release of chapter 3? As mentioned before.. amazing work.. its continuing to give me lots of incentive to get the Agamemnon done ASAP! 
 
Everyone.. have a merry Kris Kringle!!!
 
MIKE

Looks like a good time was had by all!!!!

Chuck.. thanks! The best solution is often the most obvious one.. 🙂
 
Mike Draper

Chuck: Do keep us posted on your success with the use of acid free tissue paper. Also, any thoughts on what adhesive to use? I always find that a bit of a challenge in getting a adhesive that provides a smooth adhesion. 
 
Mike Draper

So Chuck: in reading the posts, the intent with the friezes is that a downloaded file will be provided and we hard copy it at our end? And if that is the case I would be interested in what would be recommended for paper (or cardstock?) as well as adhesive. Reading these posts are a real incentive for me as I am making a push to get my Agamemnon done before I start the Winnie. At this point Im nearly done my ratlines and stays. Getting close to the final stretch. 
 
Keep this discussion going. Its been great reading! 
 
Mike Draper

The third quadrant has been completed: 
 

 
I know that a lot of experts will see my construction as blasphemy and heresy to what should be done. It is okay and I understand their point of view.
I did the best I could, knowing that this hull will be copper tiled and that most of the planking will be hidden. The most important for me was to embrace the shapes and curves of the hull and to make progress in a relatively decent amount of time.
 
The original planks are 8 mm x 3 mm of poplar/limewood strips. To accommodate the sharp curve of the bow in two dimensions/directions, I decided to slice each plank into two 4 mm x 3 mm strakes. It is a lot easier to handle and I built the planking from the whales up to the mid hull, like a stair with enough steps overlap. Once sanded, the hull is very round and still offers a decent level of sturdiness and solidity. A tiny amount of wood paste is necessary in some places to fill up some of the steps, so created.
 

 
From the keel down, the planking is placed directly against the bulkeads, until the strakes meet as pictured below: 
 
 
The overall results is rather nice (at least in my humble opinion) and replicates quite accurately the external curves of the ship. It is a lot of work as close to 40 small strakes had to be glued one after the other to create the bow: 
 

 
This is where I stand at this moment: 
 

 
I think I will be finishing the port side of the hull, before moving to the other side: 
 

 
Yves

Hi Allan   
 
Sorry senile  moment... I meant 1781....   haven't a clue where I got 1876 from...  that was a couple of years before I was born....
 
Many thanks for all the other very useful information
 
Jim
 

jim: Yes.. they are the upper and lower lines of the main wale.  And.. the two lines that are located where the chainplates meet is the upper wale. 
 
MIKE

Very promising kit. I like the details on the gun carriage wheels.
The 3D printed guns are very crisp and usually better detailed than brass guns. I understand that brass guns would impact negatively the final price of the kit with so much armament, and 3D printed guns will reduce, weight, cost and already have the right color.
 
Yves

This is the Speedwell.   The model on the bottom is Greg Herbert's model.  There is a lot of info available mainly because David Antscherl and Greg have already documented it in their two book series.   In addition there are plenty of original drafts and the Contemporary model. Making a kit with laser cut pieces and CNC carvings is a logical next step in my opinion.  I cant think of a better suited "learning" subject for a POF model.  Mainly because of its size and decorative appearance.  Plus the not to burdensome number of guns and two masted rig.  I figured why not do this one before it gets pirated so a legit version could be made available of it.
 
See here for Greg's beautiful scratch -built version.
 
and here
I am hoping because of the support and available resources that there will be a great deal of interest in such a project.  Especially if many have the books but not the tools or experience or confidence to build it entirely from scratch.
 
Not to gunk up this build log too much but please feel free let me know if this is a subject that could be of interest.
 
 

Currently under consideration....fully rigged.   Planked above the wales with frames exposed below.
 

Well, there is not much I can do at the stern at this stage of the hull building:
 

 
It is time to move the construction crew to the bow: 
 

 
Yves

Well er about that.....The prospect another huge undertaking is a worry of mine.  BUT, I may be taking the plunge into a Fully-Framed design for my next subject, whatever it will be.  I think there needs to be some more choices for model builders rather than just those POF kits from the east that are emerging.  If anybody wants to build a POF kit they are forced to only buy the stuff that comes out of China.  So I may be the first to develop a full kit done in a style that is different from those being made in China at the moment. I think I can do better.  We shall see how it goes over the next few months. 
 
I can tell you that tests are already underway.  But its still 50-50 which way I will end up going.  Not just a cross section either...but a full hull.  You have seen my other tests into this type of POF development by now.  There are more on the drawing table at the moment.  I think I should do this only because I am not getting any younger, LOL.  So I may as well get this out of my system before I get too old to consider it.
 

 

 
 

Jack: My mistake. Thanks for clarifying that point for me. You are correct that CAF is developing that project. You will certainly will have your hands full with the Cumberland, the HMS Victory 1765 and the HMS Princess Royal 1773. Its good to hear that you are making sure all your projects are legally licensed.
 
Do keep us posted on all of your efforts. 
 
Mike Draper