HMS Agamemnon by JamesT1 - Caldercraft - 1:64

[JamesT1]

Good afternoon all

 

Well after reading so many excellent logs for some fantastic models, I have decided to build my own and share the experience...

 

After a lot of reading research I decided to go with the Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon in 1:64 scale, please don't ask me for a reason,,, whilst reading through a lot I really liked the look of her, the more I read the more I liked,,, in addition I also liked the look of HMS Diana,, Diana will come later...

 

Whilst I am not a beginner when It comes to modelling, I am a beginner when it comes to wood and ships, so please shout out when you see where I may be going wrong… This log hopefully captures my experiences both with kit and what I do to resolve any issues, I create and resolve

 

So here goes,,

 

These are the photos for the checking of the main keel and the bulkheads. As I planned on cutting into the bulkheads I required them to be fairly easy to put on and take off

 

[JamesT1]

As per the guide, the first parts to be assembled were the attachments of the 'Bow', the ‘Keel’ strips and the 'Ruder Post'.

The first thing I noticed was the bow was not a snug fit,, there was a gap of about 2mm in the centre of the pieces when lined up with the main keel. To compound the issue the bow would move In both the vertical and the horizontal plain.

This lead to the question: Do I trim the Bow and if so , in what plain do I trim it to fit…..  whilst thinking about it I decided to look at the Keel strips and the Rudder post,, when dry fitting them I noticed they were a nice fit so decided the best plan of action was to fit from the rudder post forward…

This led to the bow fitting nicely at the top and at the junction with the keel strips this was glued in that position with the gap filled the following morning

JT

[stuglo]

I finished the Agamemnon last year, The Dianne was 2 projects before this. They are similar, so using this as an excuse, I didn't build with masting or rigging. I could also ship it to my sister in London. as the wife objects to my turning the home into a museum.

The kit itself is good, but like all ,the plans require much forethought, research and cribbing from others who have boldly gone before.

Two small points. 

I. I used urine (mine) on the copper- the result is good, but no better than the 3 years natural "weathering" that our humid climate works.

2. my use of glues CA and epoxy on wood to wood have not been particularly successful

Best wishes for a successful and satisfying build

Stuart

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by stuglo
poor spelling

[Henke]

Hi JamesT1,

 

Welcome to the Agamemnon club. Aggy is a very nice kit which will keep you occupied for many years if you have the stamina 🙂. You are a couple of months after my Aggy but with my slow building tempo you will probably pass me soon. As Stuart aka stuglo mentioned above, plans require much forethought (Not just this kit but all...) and sometimes instructions should not be followed. May I therefore suggest that you wait gluing the rudder post and aft keel strip until you have thinned down the false keel towards the rudder post and aft part of the keel strip. The false keel plywood has the same thickness as the rudder post (about 5 mm). When she is planked (double) you want nice transition between planking and rudder post and keel strip. First planking is 1,5 mm on each side and second 1 mm on each side. Towards the rudder post I would suggest that the false keel is gradually thinned down to towards 1 mm for the last 10-20 mm. Once at least first planking is finished you can glue on the rudder post and do the finishing touches to the transition between second planking and rudder post. I also post an earlier picture from my Agamemnon build to show what I mean. If you already have glued the the rudder post and keel strip to the false keel, take a sharp chisel and carefully separate the parts. I did it and it worked fine without causing irreparable damage to rudder post or aft keel strip.

I do not know why this is not explained in the instructions but maybe this is the wicked way the manufacturers differentiate the professional builders from us other ignorant amateurs by omitting useful information 🙂.

 

Regards

 

Henrik

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Henke
Bad spelling

[JamesT1]

Good evening all

 

Had to put my Aggy on the back burner for a few months,,  turned into a couple of years,,,  but back on it again.....

 

My plans are to put lights into the model,,, to that end I have been working on the gun deck... whilst this area will be enclosed some of the details should be seen through the gun ports (he said hopefully),, I also decided to practice my deck planking here where all my mistakes would not be seen (again he said hopefully),, one very obvious one if the bleed through at the ends of the planks..

 

The model supplied bulkheads have also been opened up,,, along with the bulkheads where the stern galleries are

 

 

She will get there

 

[JamesT1]

Good evening all

 

Lights are wired in,,,,   then noticed I had missed one in the middle of the gun deck,,, so this will be spliced in tomorrow

 

After that .....  now to start the planking

 

Does anyone know where I can find drawings or plans for the aft section of the Upper Gun deck,,,, I'm specifically looking for the layout of all the cabins and berths,, including the Captains Cabin

 

Many thanks

 

jim

 

[JamesT1]

Eventually the lights will be made to look like lantern,,,  some of my test ones looking through the gun ports,,,  including trying white lights.....

Edited November 18, 2021 by JamesT1

[JamesT1]

Gun ports and planking underway...

 

had an issue with the bulwark patterns,, parts 61 and 62 in the kit...  the plans show the leading edge near bulkhead 10 when it should be bulkhead 9...  after studying several build logs on here I think I have them in the correct place...

Edited December 3, 2021 by JamesT1

[Henke]

Hi Jim,

Your build looks very nice indeed. Just one little detail. It looks as if you have switched the bulwark patterns 61 and 62. I did the same mistake. I am sorry if my build log have misled you because I did the same mistake. The grooves towards the stern shall face inwards towards the stern gallery.

 

Anyhow, a very nice build and a new approach to the gun port openings compared to the way it is done in the instructions. Thanks for posting, Jim!

 

Best regards

 

Henrik

[JamesT1]

On 12/2/2021 at 4:55 AM, Henke said:

Hi Jim,

Your build looks very nice indeed. Just one little detail. It looks as if you have switched the bulwark patterns 61 and 62. I did the same mistake. I am sorry if my build log have misled you because I did the same mistake. The grooves towards the stern shall face inwards towards the stern gallery.

 

Anyhow, a very nice build and a new approach to the gun port openings compared to the way it is done in the instructions. Thanks for posting, Jim!

 

Best regards

 

Henrik

Hi Henrik

 

Many thanks for the information,,,  your excellent build and reports helped me immensely with the placement of part 61 and 62 however  putting on the wrong one was purely down to me not paying attention when I attached it///  I just picked up the wrong one without noticing......  I'm calling it a senile moment,, my wife calls it something else... 

 

Having built models for many years,, this is my first time trying something like this and having read many articles and watched numerous videos I decided to built it the way I like to built,,,,  adding detail and trying different things,,, I started the main gun deck gun ports using the locations for the backing plates for the dummy guns,, and worked from there...  once the planking and copper plating is complete then work on the interior begins

 

my main building interests are modern British armour and none of them are build "straight" from the box...  

 

Many thanks for your kind words and help....

 

Regards

 

Jim

 

[JamesT1]

Gun ports on the Starboard side completed with the 1st planking

[JamesT1]

Earlier in the build I had decided to leave off part 27 and 28...  The Stern Counters..  this is to help when it is time to build the cabin interiors,,,, I had also cut out the bulkheads for this at that time....

 

Leaving off part 28 the outer stern counters was probably a mistake...  as a previous post said I had an issue with the placement of the bulwark patterns,, parts 61 and 62 in the kit... I hadn't realised part 28 is used for locating the bulwark patterns,,, it turn out the bulwarks are now about 3mm too far forward and about the same too high.....   not the end of the world.....    so lesson learned ( apart from cutting through the light wires when trying to adjust),,, a bad day that day....

 

1st planking completed....  filling done and sanding mostly completed,,,,,  a wee bit more to do...  then onto main wale and 2nd planking

Edited December 10, 2021 by JamesT1

[JamesT1]

Started scratch building the cabins... just the basic at the moment, as the majority of the work will be carried out after the planking and copper plates are completed...

[JamesT1]

Planking all complete,,,( I hope)... after sanding it down I put a stain onto it,,, I'm hoping this will help when it comes to painting,,, water line marked up and started the 5 minutes job of putting on the copper plates.....

 

I've been wrestling with the notion of weathering her, however as this is by first build and I've never had to dirty up a wooden model I'm more and more leaning towards keeping her fairly clean,,,,  she will also be sitting in a basic dry dock when finished

Edited December 27, 2021 by JamesT1

[boris279]

Nice !! 
Looking forward to how you are gone copper the hull. 

[JamesT1]

Slow progress on the coppering,,, this is 2 days work...... 

 

After some errors in the early stages I'm finding it better if I work on 2 rows together working from the central point, to try and get the natural curve with the hull.... 

 

What I think is working for me is I use a spare plank piece to get the curve from the central sections and draw a line about 2 inches long then use that as the guide to start the 2 rows.....  end result will tell I suppose

 

Normally I'm in the model room working away whilst my wife is watching her soaps on TV......  yesterday I suggested I sit at the table doing the coppering (as its not a real messy job) and keep her company whilst she's watching them,,,,,,,  I don't know what part she regretted more after all the comments I was making about all the stupid things they put into these programmes..... 

 

I'm now barred from the room during these times....  I wonder if that means I can go to the pub whilst she's watching them and I'm not working on a model

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by JamesT1

[JeffT]

I remember doing this on the Conny. Its a painstaking process. I ended up filling some of the gaps with copper tape. Just overlapped the plates to pick up the rivets.

[allanyed]

 

Hi Jim and Jeff,

Jeff, you mention rivets but unfortunately most kits plating is wrong as rivets were never used.  Rather, nails were used with the dents going in, not sticking out. The photos in Jim's post above appear to have huge bumps sticking out. From Goodwin's The Construction and Fitting of English Man of War, pages 226-227 the plates were predominantly 4' 0" X 15" (0.75"  X0.23" at 1:64) with a 1.5" overlap both vertically and horizontally.  They were attached to the hull with sixteen 1/4" diameter nails horizontally and 5 or 6 vertically.  The nail heads would be about  0.008" at 1:64 scale. It may be better that the nails are not even shown at this scale as they would be barely visible, if at all.   I realize it is likely a kit error, but plain copper tape can be purchased to replace the plates from the kit for a more realistic look.

 

Allan

[Henke]

Hi Jim,

Your copper sheathing looks really good. The gore lines also look nice. Filling them is a bit tricky but I am sure you will sort that out. I just want to make a comment to what Allan and Jeff posted. The copper plates of Caldercraft are sometime criticized for for unrealistic and over sized nails Furthermore the corners are somewhat rounded which leaves tiny gaps between the plates unless you overlap them, which I did on my Aggy.

 

 

No overlap

 

Overlap

 

I got the idea from Mobbsie's fantastic Agamemnon build log a couple of years ago. Mobbsie did not overlap the plates as I have done but he commented afterwards that this could be done and maybe look better than not overlapping. I actually think overlap looks better although the overlap also looks unrealistic, but at least it is a way avoid the see through rounded corners of the Caldercraft plates. You have to lay the plates from stern to bow to get the overlap right so it is a little more difficult to have control of where to lay the gore lines compared to when you lay them working from the center as you did Jim.

 

Anyhow, I have not seen anyone else applying my overlap method (or should I say Mobbsie's to give him credit for the idea). Instructions says nothing of the kind. And, if anyone wonders, there are enough copper plates in the kit to overlap unless you ruin a lot plates whilst sheathing.

 

And , yes, the rivets are completely unrealistic in size and shape but it looks OK I think. We modelers we know there are rivets there, therefore we want to see them. It is like tree nails on deck planking. If I mark a visible tree nail, say 0.5 mm in diameter, that is equivalent of 32 mm in 1:64 scale or 45 mm in 1:90. Is that a realistic tree nail for deck planking?

 

Best regards and stay safe

 

Henrik

[Kusawa2000]

Henrik; Two things.. dont get stressed out about the overlapping of the plates.. the thickness of the plates that Caldercraft supplies its not possible. If you were using copper foil like from a stained glass shop it would work but not with the plates that come with the kit. Do make sure they are snug with each other so that the wood underneath doesnt show.. 

 

as far as the dimbles in the copper plates.. they are a bit more pronounced than they need to be. But I think they work for the Agamemnon. In the future if you feel they are too much you can substitute the copper plates with stained glass tape or take the existing plates and hammer the nails in a bit with a hobby hammer on a flat hard surface. it does make a difference. 

 

Good luck with your Aggy.. looking good! If you are in for more work you should add sails I have with my Agamemnon. 🙂 

 

Mike Draper

[JamesT1]

Good Morning all

 

I hope you all had a very nice Christmas

 

Many thanks for the information on the copper  plates.... for the Agamemnon I think I'm too far along to change how the plates are being laid...  I had looked at others who had overlapped the plates...  I don't know what it was but something looked a wee bit off in the 64 scale.... it may have been a combination of the overlap and the rivets that didn't look quite right to me ( it may have been as you are saying they are a wee bit over scale) but as I normally build in 35th and 24th scale I thought it was just how I was looking at things,,,

 

I currently have Diana impatiently waiting in her box so this is one area that will receive more attention with her.... maybe with Allan's copper tape or with Mikes idea of slightly hammering the plates first....

 

Allan if you use the copper tape method would you make small indentations in the tape to simulate the nail heads and give the impression of their presence

 

Jeff/Henrik,,, I had noticed the small gaps being left by the rounded corners of the plates plus some small errors on my part,,,  my plan for this is to give the area a wash in copper coloured paint to try and make them less obvious,,,, 

 

One thing I am thinking about is lightly sanding the plates once they are on the ship to reduce the size and prominence of the rivets, however as the copper is very thin it would be a easy to overdo this and ruin it..... I will put together a small test section and try it,,,  

do you know of anyone who has tried this in their models and what the effect was

 

Many thanks for the information and help

 

Have a Happy New Year All

 

Jim

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by JamesT1

[Kevin]

i found that applying a salt wash over the tiles helped tone down the rivets and therefore not looking so prominent, as the build progresses they tend not to look out of place anyway, if i was to do my Victory again i would go for the copper tape

 

[JamesT1]

A wee mistake on my part....when laying a length of plates I've only been looking at them from the broadside......

 

Looking at it broadside the bottom run of plates on the left look good....  but looking at it lengthwise its going off at an angle....

.   

Edited December 31, 2021 by JamesT1

[JamesT1]

14 minutes ago, Kevin said:

i found that applying a salt wash over the tiles helped tone down the rivets and therefore not looking so prominent, as the build progresses they tend not to look out of place anyway, if i was to do my Victory again i would go for the copper tape

 

 

Thanks Kevin,, your plates look fantastic.... 

 

I've never heard of a salt wash... can you tell me what it consists of please

 

Many thanks

 

Jim

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by JamesT1

[Kevin]

water and salt, apply slighly damp and leave to help oxidise the plates, taking the shine off, or go the other way and polish them up with a brass cleaner

[Kevin]

Just now, Kevin said:

water and salt, apply slighly damp and leave to help oxidise the plates, taking the shine off, or go the other way and polish them up with a brass cleaner, make up a test section and try

 

[JamesT1]

6 hours ago, Kevin said:

water and salt, apply slighly damp and leave to help oxidise the plates, taking the shine off, or go the other way and polish them up with a brass cleaner

 

Many thanks Kevin... I think I'll give that a try

 

All the best

 

Happy new year

 

Jim

[JamesT1]

Well I've reached the half way stage at last,,,,,.. filling in the gore lines appears to last forever.... especially getting to the narrow strips... for the other half I'm thinking of doing it a slightly different way in trimming the full plates slightly on the ends where required to try and get as many full runs as possible

[JamesT1]

After completing the port side I decided to try a different way os laying the copper plates for the Starboard side,, however I think I may have been a wee bit over enthusiastic and made an error...  

 

Working from the centre and up from the keel I laid them in layers, however at the waterline I laid then straight, resulting in a mismatch, circled in red..  I believe I should have just followed the natural curve of the plates up to the waterline...  so a wee bit of repairs to be done

[JamesT1]

error plates ripped off an replaced,,,   its getting there

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by JamesT1