Avi

I’ll add that @ERS Rich was super helpful, shared what the Model Shipways (which planks to the keel, as it is plank on frame) model describes. - keel to wales: 4 belts of 9 strakes each - wale: 7 strakes - thick stuff above the wales to lower gunport sill: 3 strakes - gunports: 4 strakes - above gunports to planksheer: 4 - planksheer (which is sill of spardeck gunports) - planksheer to main rail: 4 - main rail to top rail: 2 Interestingly, the MS has the following thicknesses: - 3/32” wales - 3/64” above the wales (no distinction between thick stuff above the wales, 3 strakes, and side planks above those) - 1/16” below the wales (no distinction between thick stuff below the wales, 3 strakes, and side planks below that) so it does recognize the different thicknesses, but treats them somewhat differently. I’m very grateful to @ERS Rich for helping share perspective. I think I’d like to get at least the wales a bit distinct, even if I cannot quite get the thick stuff above/below to be distinct from the side planks. I definitely will try to do the bands, though. Given that bluejacket is plank on solid hull, the actual thickness doesn’t matter, only the relative thickness. I’ll go hunting for some information on the actual thicknesses of the wales, thick stuff, and side planks on the real ship, to determine how much they “stick out” relative to each other. Divide by 96 should give an answer as to how much thicker the wales should be than the bands above or below. i may find this to be a fool’s errand, that the difference, scaled down to 1:96, is so tiny that I cannot make it happen. But I’d like that to be a conscious decision.

> shows 3 do you mean 3 thicknesses @KHauptfuehrer? It looks like there’s a “step” inwards between the wales and the next band up (“thick stuff above the wales”), that next band being 3 strakes. And it looks like there is another between that band and the gunport band. is that the “3” to which you refer? > really is your choice i know. But the more input I can get on how it really is and was built from experienced smart and helpful people like you, the more accurate I can make mine.

As I prepare to plank, it’s a long new journey, learning about some of the terms, how to bend planks, spiling, bands, etc Most of the guides here are for full on planking, ie keel to sheer (or wherever). They mostly discuss separating the section between wale and keel into 4 sections, etc. That isn’t very relevant here, as all of that will be under copper. Even above the waterline, though, I’ve found some conflicting info. the bluejacket guide states: > there are no thickened wale strakss that mostly fits with what is in the guide’s pictures. however, it doesn’t sit well with what is in “Anatomy of the Ship”. In multiple places (see picture), it refers to wales (about 5 strakes), thick stuff below the wales (3), thick stuff above the wales (3), and then side planks. Not quite sure what the right way to proceed is. Am I looking at 3 distinct thicknesses? Or just 1?

My problem: sanding my build scratches away paint. Working on the hull of my USS Constitution build, I sealed the wood, primed it with two coats, then put on two coats of copper below the water line and black above. Primer and paints are Vallejo acrylics Model Color. Once fully set (I waited days) I tried sanding to smooth down the paint where needed, etc. I used 2000 grit wet, which should be high enough. I moved very gently in circles, using only light thumb pressure. It didn’t go so well. It smoothed it beautifully, but also removed paint, to the point where I could see the primer or wood underneath. That definitely wasn’t the goal. what am I doing wrong? Isn’t high grit wet sanding supposed to be good at smoothing it without scratching away the paint?

Well I tried sanding to smooth down the paint. It didn’t go so well. Fortunately this will all be covered with planking or copper, so the blemishes don’t matter, but I would like to understand why, so I can get it right when it does matter. I tried wet sanding the copper and the black with 2000 grit wet. I moved very gently in circles, using only light thumb pressure. Basically trying to smooth out where there is buildup of paint, or raised anything (might be dust that got in). It smoothed it beautifully, but also removed paint, to the point where I could see the primer or wood underneath. That definitely wasn’t the goal. I will post a new thread to the painting techniques forum. Open to answers here as well.

Second coat of black, and two coats of copper (second coat of copper still drying). It looks like it could benefit from a third coat of copper, but since this is just the extra hiding under the copper plates, I will not bother. Both the areas - black and copper - could use some wet sanding of very high grit. I will get to it next week (take advantage of Christmas to New Years quiet time). I accidentally touched the stem with the black paint. I could sand it off, but it’s a hard angle, and since it will be covered anyways, it doesn’t matter. Side note: I really enjoy seeing the copper flakes in the paint.

Picture after first coat of black paint on topsides and interior. It’s taking some experimentation to find the right mix of paint and thinner, but as this will be covered with planks, it’s a good place. it clearly needs to dry, a light sanding, and a second coat. It doesn’t *really* need it, as planking will cover everything, but it’s good practice for ahead when precision will count more. You’ll see that I decided to paint the interiors of all of the gunports on both decks black. The manual is somewhat confusing, and implies that it might be white, but the current ship clearly has black in the pictures, I like the look, the manual wasn’t clear, and we don’t have any colour pictures from the early 19th century anyways. 😃 This isn’t my usual location, as you can see. Inclement weather, had to work indoors. It’s a good thing I’m using acrylic paints, and I put plastic sheeting to protect the table.

That is art right there. Absolutely beautiful @ERS Rich

The experiments were a good idea. no pics to post for now. I wiped the hull extra clean with microfiber cloth, then put on a coat of sanding sealer, let it dry, and sanded it with 400 grain. It was really interesting to see how it brought up the fibers and grain. I sanded one side, then brought it to my wife to compare the two sides. Was pretty cool. i decided on only one coat of sanding sealer here, as it is all going to be under the planks or copper. i added a single coat of Vallejo Medium Primer on the entire outside of the hull, and the inside of the bulwarks. I plan on sanding it after it dries, but as it says it takes 12 hours to cure, I’ll let it sit a day. I had to experiment a bit with thinning. At first I thinned it 50/50, but it gave barely any coverage at all. I remembered that it is supposed to be the consistency of milk, and realized that the primer itself already is that consistency. Further, it says on the bottle that it can be loaded into an air spray can as is, so I guess it already is pretty thin. i did the rest of the first coat without any thinning, got much saner coverage. It still isn’t a smooth grey cover, which surprised me as it is unthinned primer, so I guess it needs another coat. Tomorrow I will sand it lightly and add another coat. After that dries, I’ll give it another light sanding, then paint. I’m happy to hear thoughts about what to expect after a coat of primer on top of sealed wood.

Got in touch with the local manufacturer, turns out his product is sort of sealer that gets absorbed plus varnish in one, definitely not intended for painting or any other layer on top. Back to square one. I may have to suck it up and either buy the DecoArt or the Varathane or the Mylands. Mylands is cellulose, so thinning will be smelly. So is the varathane. Oh well. UPDATE: The Varathane is water-based, easy to clean up, no spills. I know, not as good as the cellulose, but good enough for my usage for now; trade-offs. Local importer was out, along with most of his retailers, but one still had. Ordered it, should show up in a few days.

I also am going the Vallejo route; it was just the easiest high quality to acquire here in Israel. Although I do travel regularly to the US (well, depending on covid restrictions), and lots of Amazon ships here, most paints do not. As for the Clou, I have not found it outside of Germany either; I looked in Israel, UK and US. How would I evaluate the quality of a local/imported brand? Or find the right USA-based ones to order on Amazon? So far, I’ve seen a lot on the decoart Americana multi purpose sealer (which is ~$5 for the 8oz bottle on Amazon but doesn’t ship here, and is about 2x that here), and then larger ones like 0.5L mylands and some local ones that come in litres or more. and I have found the rustoleum varathane premium sanding sealer

Do you mind linking to some sample brands?

If I get what you are saying @wefalck, any combination will do in the end: paint straight on the wood with lots of coats and sanding, primer straight on the wood with several coats and sanding and then the paint, sealer in 1-2 coats with sanding and then paint, sealer and then primer (if needed because of the specific paint color) and then paint. All will stick well. It is just a question of what combination works for your needs in terms of minimizing wasted coats as well as covering up imperfections. What you put on top of the paint, if anything, is there to protect the paint itself, for which I have varnish (and can get the recommended wax, although that’s glossy). Is that about it? What do you use for sealer?

Ouch. Just discovered this thread, which left me even more confused. So I can deal, or not seal; use the primer as a sealer, or not. Or I can use the poly varnish as a sealer coat. The more I learn, the more confused I become.😕

Oh yes. I’ll look into renaissance wax. But isn’t that more of a glossy? speaking of which, although a bit off topic, I’ve been thinking about how to protect the copper plating over the years. Due to oxidation, it’s likely to turn green. I’d heard about people putting a coat of copper paint on it. I’m wondering if gloss varnish or renaissance wax would help.

I think my favourite suggestion you had was not to worry too much, just experiment away on scrap wood. 😀 any particular sealer?

Thanks for the detail @vaddoc so you recommend a sealer and a primer? Or the sealer instead of the primer? It was @MrBlueJacket who said he always uses primer but not sealer, at least on the hull. He does sand lightly in between coats, too. > thin to a consistency of milk whole milk, 2% or skim? Each has a different consistency. i think your point is that if I make it too thin, within reason, it just means more coats, but no other downsides. If it’s too thick, then I’ll have many issues. also, do you thin primer? I’m guessing same consistency target as paint? finally, any particular recommended sealers? Thanks!

This has been a first class helpful thread. Thank you all for contributing! I’m about to start painting on my build. I’ve been shaping the hull, cutting gunports, adding keel, etc for most of this year. I plan on planking, first going to paint the hull black, so anything visible between planks looks like pitch, and copper on the bottom. I have Vallejo Model Color paints, as well as their thinner and varnish (matte and gloss). Some questions: - the bluejacket person said he usually puts several coats of primer (sanded lightly between coats) directly on the hull, no sealer, then paints. This thread implies sealing first (or instead) would be better? Or is it just various techniques? - how much do people thin their acrylic paints? primer? varnish? - I was going to paint the planks, but I prefer to stain them directly, so it keeps the wood look. This ship will be handled. Should I varnish after? How would that affect the look? thanks to all.

One last picture before I start with painting. I’m really liking how nice this looks with the gunports! I’ll be following @MrBlueJacket’s suggesting of priming and then painting the hull before planking and coppering. A few coats of primer, lightly sanded in between coats, directly on the wood, then the paint. Black on the inside of the bulwarks and outside above the waterline (“topsides”?), so that any gaps between planks look like pitch in the seams, and copper below the waterline, so any gaps don’t show at all. I’m using Vallejo acrylic Model Color paints and will be hand brushing everything. I have their thinner, so I’ll have to experiment to get the right viscosity. I hear a lot about 2:1 paint:thinner, or even 1:1. I also have to figure out whether to thin the primer, and if so, at what ratio. I’ve been browsing the topics on painting at MSW, lots of interesting info, nothing definitive for me though.

Having reread the manual, that “hump” is the ⅛” I left “above the gundeck”. I assume that is to ease constructing everything at the stern. Either way, the gundeck clearly is at the level of the top of the block of wood (which fits with the conveniently pre existing camber), so I will file those two doorways down further, hopefully getting a decent height. Done. The bottoms of the doorways are just above the top of the wood block deck area, which should leave just enough room for the decking itself, and a bit of a door sill. And they measure out precisely at ¾”, scale equivalent of 6’. No idea if that’s what it actually was in 1812, but I’m happy with it. On to sanding, then it’ll be time to learn how to use the paints.

Gunports all filed out. Basically flat file for the size and sides, careful usage of square file for the corners. Looking closely, these are not quite done. I still need to sand them down, both for fine touch of shape and for smoothness. One interesting point is the last “port” on each side, which isn’t really a port at all, but the doorway into the quarter galleries. It doesn’t appear on the plan profile, but does on the deck layout. The width is somewhat less than a gunport, using the deck plan it comes out to 7/32”, which I transferred as is. One of them came out slightly larger, but as it is a doorway, and will be behind the quarter galleries, I don’t care. To calculate the height, I filed the bottom of one down until a bit below the level of the gunports, which should be close to the gundeck, then upwards a reasonable amount without hitting the spardeck or weakening the wood in between the doorway and the gunport opening above. I then measured it and transferred to the other side. I would have liked to make it exactly ¾”, which at 1:96 scale is exactly 6 feet, but didn’t have the headway. Then again, the bottom actually is not level with the gundeck now, but with the extra “hump” of wood left athwartships at the stern. So I might have room to file these down further and get my full ¾” (or closer). I need to read ahead to see how the “deck” surface of the pre carved hull, the gundeck itself, and the extra “hump” come together.

Yeah I had to adjust it a bit while clipped on as I worked through it, but it worked out pretty well. Busy expanding the gunports to the appropriate size. It is a slow process, done about 10 out of the 34 so far. But they look great when done.

And with all of the gunports cut out! As mentioned above, these are far from final. Next step, I will use the gunport lid to get the right size and shape (square 😁) for each port using files, mainly flat and square. Then sand them down.

Gundeck gunports nicely marked, thanks to the @mort stoll template system. Proceeded to begin to cut out the gunports. The manual recommends using a 1/16” drill bit to drill in each corner and the centre of each gunport, then connect them with a keyhole saw. I did that, then realized that my saw is just slightly bigger. Fortunately, I had put my drill holes inside of the outline, with some room to spare, expecting to file the ports up to size. I went back and used a 3/32” drill bit, which did the job nicely. I then cut between the holes with my keyhole saw. That popped a small misshapen block of wood out from each. Then I filed the ports. be careful to leave a little extra room so you can expand the hole if needed. so far, I have done only four on each side. They aren’t remotely finished. They almost certainly are too small, not to mention in desperate need of sanding. My plan is to get all of the ports to this state, and then I will file them until one of the gunport lids just fits. Even messy and small, I included a photo to capture the progress.

That was a genius idea @mort stoll Look at the attached picture. I cut the tip of my template out at the top of the bulwark (ie bottom of the caprail). For the bottom, I cut the bottom loosely well below the gunports, and then cut out each gunport with a nice sharp xacto knife. I can just clip it to the hull, aligning the top of the cutout to the top of the hull, and just mark out the gunports. the bridle port is almost all the way at the bows, and so distorted by the curve, so I didn’t cut that one out. But it should be easy to extend the line just for that one port.