Jaager

This discussion has me wondering a bit more about scale effect as it applies to color.  
I am wondering if @ 1:600  the black would look better if it were actually a very dark grey.
If it is an Atlantic Ocean vessel,  just a slight hint of green in the dark grey?

This discussion has me wondering a bit more about scale effect as it applies to color.  
I am wondering if @ 1:600  the black would look better if it were actually a very dark grey.
If it is an Atlantic Ocean vessel,  just a slight hint of green in the dark grey?

This discussion has me wondering a bit more about scale effect as it applies to color.  
I am wondering if @ 1:600  the black would look better if it were actually a very dark grey.
If it is an Atlantic Ocean vessel,  just a slight hint of green in the dark grey?

This discussion has me wondering a bit more about scale effect as it applies to color.  
I am wondering if @ 1:600  the black would look better if it were actually a very dark grey.
If it is an Atlantic Ocean vessel,  just a slight hint of green in the dark grey?

India ink is very small particles in water - maybe graphite? - carbon anyway.   When I was a pup, a drop on a microscope slide was a method of displaying brownian motion.
It is essentially a dye.  It penetrated porous surfaces and stays behind when the water dries.  Plastic (your type -styrene) has no pores.  The ink is just a dirt layer on the surface.  There is no chemical reaction involved.  Paint involves a chemical reaction.  Your clear finish also involves a chemical reaction.
From your description - a speculation: the carbon particles suspend in the water solvent of the poly finish and interfere with the polymerization reaction.  It may never dry or if dry the incomplete reaction may leave mostly poly monomers which are essentially just another dirt layer.  In this case, the product is named after a reaction that does not occur, so it is nor poly at all.
 

D.,
If you have not already done so, I suggest that you read the pinned post just above this one:
 
For Beginners -- A Cautionary Tale
 
May your attendance here be long and rewarding.

D.,
If you have not already done so, I suggest that you read the pinned post just above this one:
 
For Beginners -- A Cautionary Tale
 
May your attendance here be long and rewarding.

D.,
If you have not already done so, I suggest that you read the pinned post just above this one:
 
For Beginners -- A Cautionary Tale
 
May your attendance here be long and rewarding.

D.,
If you have not already done so, I suggest that you read the pinned post just above this one:
 
For Beginners -- A Cautionary Tale
 
May your attendance here be long and rewarding.

John,
Your diagrams in post #1 and post #4  are quick and dirty POB kit shortcuts .
The final appearance would be essentially the same as actual practice.  But what you show is very different from actual practice.
The actual waterway is a thick and wide timber,  with 5 surfaces in cross section.  It butts against the inside face of the top timbers.  It has a slope or bevel on the top inside corner.
The kit saves itself lot of work by calling a triangular strip of wood - the waterway.  It is just the bevel of the waterway.
The margin plank ( and the waterway ) sat on a mortise/notch cut into the top of the deck beams.  The margin plank(s) are about twice thickness of the deck planks.  They add strength at the side and lock the waterway in place.   On the surface, none of this is seen.  The kit uses deck planking as the margin plank.  I hope your drawing is not to scale.  The margin plank needs to be wide enough to take the nibs.  The deck planks should be 10" wide at the maximum.  A smaller ship may only have one strake of margin planking?

The spirketting as a sort of inside wale.  It provides strength and is also subject to stress from the forward cannon trucks.  It actually sits on the waterway and reaches the underside of the gun port sills.  
The inside bulwark planking starts above the spirketting and is maybe about one half the thickness.
 
In Gary's post #3,  the four strakes of top and butt are on the main (gun) deck of a frigate.  They lay under the monster size guns. I can imagine the on recoil that those guns may hop as well as jerk on the rope springs and ring bolts at the spirketting.  Planks with added thickness and interlocked joinery for the stress there.  I doubt that is detail would apply to Lady Nelson.

John,
Your diagrams in post #1 and post #4  are quick and dirty POB kit shortcuts .
The final appearance would be essentially the same as actual practice.  But what you show is very different from actual practice.
The actual waterway is a thick and wide timber,  with 5 surfaces in cross section.  It butts against the inside face of the top timbers.  It has a slope or bevel on the top inside corner.
The kit saves itself lot of work by calling a triangular strip of wood - the waterway.  It is just the bevel of the waterway.
The margin plank ( and the waterway ) sat on a mortise/notch cut into the top of the deck beams.  The margin plank(s) are about twice thickness of the deck planks.  They add strength at the side and lock the waterway in place.   On the surface, none of this is seen.  The kit uses deck planking as the margin plank.  I hope your drawing is not to scale.  The margin plank needs to be wide enough to take the nibs.  The deck planks should be 10" wide at the maximum.  A smaller ship may only have one strake of margin planking?

The spirketting as a sort of inside wale.  It provides strength and is also subject to stress from the forward cannon trucks.  It actually sits on the waterway and reaches the underside of the gun port sills.  
The inside bulwark planking starts above the spirketting and is maybe about one half the thickness.
 
In Gary's post #3,  the four strakes of top and butt are on the main (gun) deck of a frigate.  They lay under the monster size guns. I can imagine the on recoil that those guns may hop as well as jerk on the rope springs and ring bolts at the spirketting.  Planks with added thickness and interlocked joinery for the stress there.  I doubt that is detail would apply to Lady Nelson.

John,
Your diagrams in post #1 and post #4  are quick and dirty POB kit shortcuts .
The final appearance would be essentially the same as actual practice.  But what you show is very different from actual practice.
The actual waterway is a thick and wide timber,  with 5 surfaces in cross section.  It butts against the inside face of the top timbers.  It has a slope or bevel on the top inside corner.
The kit saves itself lot of work by calling a triangular strip of wood - the waterway.  It is just the bevel of the waterway.
The margin plank ( and the waterway ) sat on a mortise/notch cut into the top of the deck beams.  The margin plank(s) are about twice thickness of the deck planks.  They add strength at the side and lock the waterway in place.   On the surface, none of this is seen.  The kit uses deck planking as the margin plank.  I hope your drawing is not to scale.  The margin plank needs to be wide enough to take the nibs.  The deck planks should be 10" wide at the maximum.  A smaller ship may only have one strake of margin planking?

The spirketting as a sort of inside wale.  It provides strength and is also subject to stress from the forward cannon trucks.  It actually sits on the waterway and reaches the underside of the gun port sills.  
The inside bulwark planking starts above the spirketting and is maybe about one half the thickness.
 
In Gary's post #3,  the four strakes of top and butt are on the main (gun) deck of a frigate.  They lay under the monster size guns. I can imagine the on recoil that those guns may hop as well as jerk on the rope springs and ring bolts at the spirketting.  Planks with added thickness and interlocked joinery for the stress there.  I doubt that is detail would apply to Lady Nelson.

This is straight out of my head, so no pictures.
Most table saws that can do a rip cut that is other than 90 degree vertical - tilt the blade.
The Byrnes saw holds the blade vertical and tilts the table - the right of the blade part of the table.
Kurt and No Idea suggest that because of gravity and friction,  the wood can move away from the blade -because it  mostly rests on an angled surface.
They mimic the standard table saw by tilting the blade, and making the accessory table horizontal.  The rest of the saw goes with the blade.
The saw comes on its own base.  A heavy one.  They place wedges  under the base to angle it up.  I would want a stop at the right side edge to keep the saw from sliding.
 
My suggestion is more elaborate and only makes sense if a whole lot of beveled ripping is going to be done,  and if several angles are involved.
My picture:
Lay a book flat on a table. Turn it so that the top of the book is facing you and the spine is on your right.  Lift the front cover.
Imagine a small version of the saw sitting on the top cover.   The cover is lifted until the right side saw table accessory is horizontal.
 
Use plywood to make the two book covers.  Use a full size piano hinge as the book spine.   There are holes in each corner of the saw base.
Fix the saw base to the top piece of plywood.  As heavy as the saw is, I think two pieces of 1/2" ply will be needed.  The bottom needs to be wider than the top - enough beyond the hinge the the whole assembly does not flip sideways.
The threaded rod and nut are not needed actually.  A block of wood, square even will hold the top cover at the angle.  A way to fix it in place would probably be a good idea.  
 

If the object is to be able to get a precise and reproducible  saw tilt and this will be done frequently with multiple possible angles being cut:
 
Fix the machine to a two plywood sheet base.
Lower is a 1/2" - 3/4"  sheet.  width 3" or more wider than saw base on each side.
Upper is  1/4" sheet
The right edge of upper sheet is at the right side of the saw base.
The upper sheet is attached to the lower using a full size piano hinge.
The left side is as far beyond the base of the saw as is needed to fix a a threaded rod and thumb screw or wingnut to raise that edge.
There would probably need to be spacer pieces at the hinge and outer edges of the upper sheet that are a tad thicker than the thumb screw/wingnut.
 
Someone really OCD could fix the angle gauge from a adjustable miter -  or a stick with marks  at the front right at the hinge.
 
The down side is that it adds weight to an already hefty machine.
A 1" rubber stopper fixed under each corner of the base will provide space for fingers to lift the machine, if it just rents bench space and lives on a shelf.

This is straight out of my head, so no pictures.
Most table saws that can do a rip cut that is other than 90 degree vertical - tilt the blade.
The Byrnes saw holds the blade vertical and tilts the table - the right of the blade part of the table.
Kurt and No Idea suggest that because of gravity and friction,  the wood can move away from the blade -because it  mostly rests on an angled surface.
They mimic the standard table saw by tilting the blade, and making the accessory table horizontal.  The rest of the saw goes with the blade.
The saw comes on its own base.  A heavy one.  They place wedges  under the base to angle it up.  I would want a stop at the right side edge to keep the saw from sliding.
 
My suggestion is more elaborate and only makes sense if a whole lot of beveled ripping is going to be done,  and if several angles are involved.
My picture:
Lay a book flat on a table. Turn it so that the top of the book is facing you and the spine is on your right.  Lift the front cover.
Imagine a small version of the saw sitting on the top cover.   The cover is lifted until the right side saw table accessory is horizontal.
 
Use plywood to make the two book covers.  Use a full size piano hinge as the book spine.   There are holes in each corner of the saw base.
Fix the saw base to the top piece of plywood.  As heavy as the saw is, I think two pieces of 1/2" ply will be needed.  The bottom needs to be wider than the top - enough beyond the hinge the the whole assembly does not flip sideways.
The threaded rod and nut are not needed actually.  A block of wood, square even will hold the top cover at the angle.  A way to fix it in place would probably be a good idea.  
 

If the object is to be able to get a precise and reproducible  saw tilt and this will be done frequently with multiple possible angles being cut:
 
Fix the machine to a two plywood sheet base.
Lower is a 1/2" - 3/4"  sheet.  width 3" or more wider than saw base on each side.
Upper is  1/4" sheet
The right edge of upper sheet is at the right side of the saw base.
The upper sheet is attached to the lower using a full size piano hinge.
The left side is as far beyond the base of the saw as is needed to fix a a threaded rod and thumb screw or wingnut to raise that edge.
There would probably need to be spacer pieces at the hinge and outer edges of the upper sheet that are a tad thicker than the thumb screw/wingnut.
 
Someone really OCD could fix the angle gauge from a adjustable miter -  or a stick with marks  at the front right at the hinge.
 
The down side is that it adds weight to an already hefty machine.
A 1" rubber stopper fixed under each corner of the base will provide space for fingers to lift the machine, if it just rents bench space and lives on a shelf.

If the object is to be able to get a precise and reproducible  saw tilt and this will be done frequently with multiple possible angles being cut:
 
Fix the machine to a two plywood sheet base.
Lower is a 1/2" - 3/4"  sheet.  width 3" or more wider than saw base on each side.
Upper is  1/4" sheet
The right edge of upper sheet is at the right side of the saw base.
The upper sheet is attached to the lower using a full size piano hinge.
The left side is as far beyond the base of the saw as is needed to fix a a threaded rod and thumb screw or wingnut to raise that edge.
There would probably need to be spacer pieces at the hinge and outer edges of the upper sheet that are a tad thicker than the thumb screw/wingnut.
 
Someone really OCD could fix the angle gauge from a adjustable miter -  or a stick with marks  at the front right at the hinge.
 
The down side is that it adds weight to an already hefty machine.
A 1" rubber stopper fixed under each corner of the base will provide space for fingers to lift the machine, if it just rents bench space and lives on a shelf.

This is a thought experiment that I have mentally run from time to time.
It may be fun to do a seminar style thought experiment.
 
I do not see the technology and chemistry if the time in question allowing for 000,000,000 white.
It would likely tend toward yellow, gray, or red, or blue,  but which one?
 
If the hull is carved from a solid or laminated wood stock.  or has a planking that I am less than proud of:
fill, seal, prime, paint
 
If the hull has been planked and I wish that work to be on display:
It is my understanding that there are no white inks  or dyes. Using just any species for the bottom planking and then using a dye on it does not appear to be a good option.  
 
Option one - paint with wood.
A blond species of wood is one possibility.
This could be one place where Holly would serve.  Expensive.  Holly accepts dyes well.   It also can be bent.  The Holly planking above the waterline can be dyed to match most any other darker species.  
A problem that I imagine having is this:   How to get a well defined waterline?
The run of planking "never" has a planking seam that follows the waterline. Just switching species of or pre dyed  whole  planks there is not a realistic option.
A paint or stain should play nice with painters tape.  Using a stain or paint on a high quality wood species just seems wrong.
A dye will migrate along the wood fibers and be unaffected by any surface masking.
My best mental solution is to use a cut line at the waterline that severs the fibers - maybe even leaving the razor blade in place while the dye is applied.
The alternative that I imagine is to use a different species for planking above the waterline.  Doing it in a way that has the planking strakes look as though it is all a single board appears as an almost impossible challenge.
 
Option two -  use a white paint wash. Use enough to state the color but not so much that it totally obscures.  It would mask most of the grain, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.  Done well, the planking strakes would show.
 
Option three - use shellac and take advantage of its reaction with water.  It turns white.  It may turn to be too white.  It may be too variable to serve.
 

This is a thought experiment that I have mentally run from time to time.
It may be fun to do a seminar style thought experiment.
 
I do not see the technology and chemistry if the time in question allowing for 000,000,000 white.
It would likely tend toward yellow, gray, or red, or blue,  but which one?
 
If the hull is carved from a solid or laminated wood stock.  or has a planking that I am less than proud of:
fill, seal, prime, paint
 
If the hull has been planked and I wish that work to be on display:
It is my understanding that there are no white inks  or dyes. Using just any species for the bottom planking and then using a dye on it does not appear to be a good option.  
 
Option one - paint with wood.
A blond species of wood is one possibility.
This could be one place where Holly would serve.  Expensive.  Holly accepts dyes well.   It also can be bent.  The Holly planking above the waterline can be dyed to match most any other darker species.  
A problem that I imagine having is this:   How to get a well defined waterline?
The run of planking "never" has a planking seam that follows the waterline. Just switching species of or pre dyed  whole  planks there is not a realistic option.
A paint or stain should play nice with painters tape.  Using a stain or paint on a high quality wood species just seems wrong.
A dye will migrate along the wood fibers and be unaffected by any surface masking.
My best mental solution is to use a cut line at the waterline that severs the fibers - maybe even leaving the razor blade in place while the dye is applied.
The alternative that I imagine is to use a different species for planking above the waterline.  Doing it in a way that has the planking strakes look as though it is all a single board appears as an almost impossible challenge.
 
Option two -  use a white paint wash. Use enough to state the color but not so much that it totally obscures.  It would mask most of the grain, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.  Done well, the planking strakes would show.
 
Option three - use shellac and take advantage of its reaction with water.  It turns white.  It may turn to be too white.  It may be too variable to serve.
 

I did a Google search using: Blackfriars Light Oak Gloss Varnish
Clicking on the company site link
Their products are solvent based polyurethane varnish.
There is no shortage of quality brands at your local builders supply mega store or a hardware store.
The volume that you will need =  you could probably return it after using what you need and it would pass as full.  Not a suggestion for possible behavior.  It is meant as an exaggeration.
There are oil stains that mimic light Oak from several mfg from the same vendors.
The surface area that you will be covering is small.  Stain and finish as two steps instead of one,  will not cost you all that much more time.  I suspect that the original instructions are trying to save you money.
It may save you money if you contact your local woodworkers guild -  Someone there is likely to have leftover gloss polyurethane and left over light Oak stain.
(Or a local cabinet maker.)
 
 
I cannot resist an editorial.
These are "unique" instructions for a scale model ship.
Solvent based polyurethane produces a thick layer.  It was great for my Walnut stained White Oak kitchen floor in KY.  Not good practice on a scale model.  It is a thick plastic layer.
Gloss -  is an out of scale finish on a scale model.
I am guessing that this is an actual working motor craft that is intended actually float.
This moves it to the toy category and that makes gloss appropriate. The exposure to water makes solvent based polyurethane and gloss appropriate.
Because most Pear seems to be Swiss Pear - that is, it is steamed and therefore a darkish red and uniform in color, the Oak stain probably will only shift it to be a bit darker. 
Pear is a quality wood and unless using it where black is indicated,  a clear finish is enough.  It can be dyed black and it will stand in for Ebony. 
 

I did a Google search using: Blackfriars Light Oak Gloss Varnish
Clicking on the company site link
Their products are solvent based polyurethane varnish.
There is no shortage of quality brands at your local builders supply mega store or a hardware store.
The volume that you will need =  you could probably return it after using what you need and it would pass as full.  Not a suggestion for possible behavior.  It is meant as an exaggeration.
There are oil stains that mimic light Oak from several mfg from the same vendors.
The surface area that you will be covering is small.  Stain and finish as two steps instead of one,  will not cost you all that much more time.  I suspect that the original instructions are trying to save you money.
It may save you money if you contact your local woodworkers guild -  Someone there is likely to have leftover gloss polyurethane and left over light Oak stain.
(Or a local cabinet maker.)
 
 
I cannot resist an editorial.
These are "unique" instructions for a scale model ship.
Solvent based polyurethane produces a thick layer.  It was great for my Walnut stained White Oak kitchen floor in KY.  Not good practice on a scale model.  It is a thick plastic layer.
Gloss -  is an out of scale finish on a scale model.
I am guessing that this is an actual working motor craft that is intended actually float.
This moves it to the toy category and that makes gloss appropriate. The exposure to water makes solvent based polyurethane and gloss appropriate.
Because most Pear seems to be Swiss Pear - that is, it is steamed and therefore a darkish red and uniform in color, the Oak stain probably will only shift it to be a bit darker. 
Pear is a quality wood and unless using it where black is indicated,  a clear finish is enough.  It can be dyed black and it will stand in for Ebony. 
 

I did a Google search using: Blackfriars Light Oak Gloss Varnish
Clicking on the company site link
Their products are solvent based polyurethane varnish.
There is no shortage of quality brands at your local builders supply mega store or a hardware store.
The volume that you will need =  you could probably return it after using what you need and it would pass as full.  Not a suggestion for possible behavior.  It is meant as an exaggeration.
There are oil stains that mimic light Oak from several mfg from the same vendors.
The surface area that you will be covering is small.  Stain and finish as two steps instead of one,  will not cost you all that much more time.  I suspect that the original instructions are trying to save you money.
It may save you money if you contact your local woodworkers guild -  Someone there is likely to have leftover gloss polyurethane and left over light Oak stain.
(Or a local cabinet maker.)
 
 
I cannot resist an editorial.
These are "unique" instructions for a scale model ship.
Solvent based polyurethane produces a thick layer.  It was great for my Walnut stained White Oak kitchen floor in KY.  Not good practice on a scale model.  It is a thick plastic layer.
Gloss -  is an out of scale finish on a scale model.
I am guessing that this is an actual working motor craft that is intended actually float.
This moves it to the toy category and that makes gloss appropriate. The exposure to water makes solvent based polyurethane and gloss appropriate.
Because most Pear seems to be Swiss Pear - that is, it is steamed and therefore a darkish red and uniform in color, the Oak stain probably will only shift it to be a bit darker. 
Pear is a quality wood and unless using it where black is indicated,  a clear finish is enough.  It can be dyed black and it will stand in for Ebony. 
 

Looks fantastic, Hank.  All you'll need is the A/C now.  

This is a thought experiment that I have mentally run from time to time.
It may be fun to do a seminar style thought experiment.
 
I do not see the technology and chemistry if the time in question allowing for 000,000,000 white.
It would likely tend toward yellow, gray, or red, or blue,  but which one?
 
If the hull is carved from a solid or laminated wood stock.  or has a planking that I am less than proud of:
fill, seal, prime, paint
 
If the hull has been planked and I wish that work to be on display:
It is my understanding that there are no white inks  or dyes. Using just any species for the bottom planking and then using a dye on it does not appear to be a good option.  
 
Option one - paint with wood.
A blond species of wood is one possibility.
This could be one place where Holly would serve.  Expensive.  Holly accepts dyes well.   It also can be bent.  The Holly planking above the waterline can be dyed to match most any other darker species.  
A problem that I imagine having is this:   How to get a well defined waterline?
The run of planking "never" has a planking seam that follows the waterline. Just switching species of or pre dyed  whole  planks there is not a realistic option.
A paint or stain should play nice with painters tape.  Using a stain or paint on a high quality wood species just seems wrong.
A dye will migrate along the wood fibers and be unaffected by any surface masking.
My best mental solution is to use a cut line at the waterline that severs the fibers - maybe even leaving the razor blade in place while the dye is applied.
The alternative that I imagine is to use a different species for planking above the waterline.  Doing it in a way that has the planking strakes look as though it is all a single board appears as an almost impossible challenge.
 
Option two -  use a white paint wash. Use enough to state the color but not so much that it totally obscures.  It would mask most of the grain, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.  Done well, the planking strakes would show.
 
Option three - use shellac and take advantage of its reaction with water.  It turns white.  It may turn to be too white.  It may be too variable to serve.
 

JP.
 
It may not necessarily be a ship.  It may be a bark or a large schooner.
 
Framing that is all single frames, may be a clue - if the framing matched the original.
The midship looks to be farther aft than is typical.
The mainmast looks atypical in how far aft it is.
The older style stern may help narrow the possibles.
 
A bow on photo, camera back a bit, bottom of the keel on a single plane,  would help with this, but
 
This vessel seems narrow with a lot more deadrise than a commercial carrier would afford.
Flying Cloud also had a midship that was closer to 50%.  It also looked like it ate few too many sandwiches.
 
If it is a clipper,  Crothers  may help,  but if your photo has not distorted or obscured too much,  this is more of an anti-packet, so I would not expect a match there for any ID.  
I jumped a step, Crothers wrote more than one book  -  All are must haves if this sort of ship is in your area of interest.  His book on clippers - the framing reminds me of some of his illustrations.   His book on packets -  those had a cross section that reminds me end on view of a single stack saltine box with rounded corners at the bottom.