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Byrne's Saw Reference (also good for other desktop hobby saws)


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I'm posting and pinning this topic as much of the info discussed about blades, etc. is contained in this.   This if from a former supplier of wood for ship models and he used the Byrne's Saw (aka the Jim Saw) for his products.  Much of the info in here (such as blade tooth count, etc.) is also valid for other desktop hobby saws.

 

He mentions in his text using Thurston blades but they quit the business and so this is recommendation for blades:   https://www.malcosaw.com/

 

I hope it's helpful....

Byrnes Saw Operation.pdf

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans                             Triton Cross-Section   

                                                                                                                       USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War  _(Gallery) Build Log

                                                                                Wasa (Gallery)

                                                                                                                        HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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  • 2 weeks later...

Can anyone recommend a supplier for blades for the Byrnes saw in the UK? Not having much luck finding anything and the odd company that seems to have something vaguely similar (for example, same diameter, wrong sized arbor) is remarkably expensive.

 

Rob (Decoyman)

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Rob, are you looking for carbide tipped saws or high speed steel slitting saws, for the latter there are options.

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

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Rob - I buy TCT blades from Byrnes - i have not found another good source.

 

For slitting saws I use these from Amazon. 

2028005088_Screenshot2020-04-30at12_07_49.thumb.png.0c6272c67933348623c381d9cfe14d91.png

1280504257_Screenshot2020-04-30at12_08_01.png.0e2564a7e61fdbf0820c05f516b22004.png

As you can see they come in a range of sizes. 

 

I don't use less than 0.8mm for slitting planks as anything less tends to deflect and hence bind.

I do use down to 0.6mm thickness for cross cutting on thin and narrow wood.

 

I have a lathe so made up the spacer to convert from the standard 0.5" spindle to the 22mm bore of these blades. 

 

Jim Byrnes supplies spacers at a relatively modest cost but I don't know about shipping cost. Alternatively I can make you one.

 

 

 

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

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Just what I need.  Thank you for posting.

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9 hours ago, Decoyman said:

I have a lathe too, so I might have a go at turning up a spacer. If it's not too much trouble, how do you normally do this?

Rob

Get a piece of aluminium rod bigger than 22mm.

Turn the outside diameter down to 22mm - buy the blade first and then you can make sure it fits.

Drill a shallow hole for the bore and then open it out to O.5" - use the plate from the saw to check that it fits over the small spigot. 

Then part off the spacer to the width that you want - i.e a couple of thou thinner then the thinest blade you want to use. If turns out a bit thicker than you intended thin it off by rubbing on some emery paper.

You could use steel but parting off might be difficult unless you have a larger lathe, brass is also an option but more expensive.

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

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I just purchased a blade adaptor from Jim Byrnes to replace the one I lost when it fell on the floor and rolled away.  He charged $5, and the shipping was very reasonable.  It just came in the mail, which means the one I dropped should turn up shortly.

 

 

Current builds:

Wingnut Wings AMC DH9

Model Shipways 1/48 Longboat

 

Soon to start:

Fully framed Echo

 

Completed builds:

East Coast Oyster Sharpie

Echo Cross Section

1/48 Scratchbuilt Hannah from Hahn plans

1/64 Kitbashed Rattlesnake from Bob Hunt practicum

1/64 Brig Supply

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  • 3 months later...

I believe it is for cutting angles without tilting the blade..

 

Someone correct me if I'm wron..

Luck is just another word for good preparation.

—MICHAEL ROSE

Current builds:    Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans 

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

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20 hours ago, jackieofalltrades said:

Does anyone have information on the table top slanted extension for cutting on the table saw?

I've never been able to figure out how it's supposed to actually work LOL

The arbor on these saws is fixed so this adapter tilts the table instead.  I use mine quite extensively and like all tools - the more you use it the easier the use and set up become .  I can set my tilting table up in minutes now and I wouldn't be without out it.

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One tip on using the tilt table.  If the saw is kept level using the tilt table is a bit awkward.  Use a couple of wedges under the saw so the tilt table is level with the bench top and it does away with the awkward working on the tilt table and the tendency for gravity to work against holding the wood against the uphill fence.

Kurt Van Dahm

Director

NAUTICAL RESEARCH GUILD

www.thenrg.org

SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS

CLUBS

Nautical Research & Model Ship Society of Chicago

Midwest Model Shipwrights

North Shore Deadeyes

The Society of Model Shipwrights

Butch O'Hare - IPMS

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4 minutes ago, kurtvd19 said:

One tip on using the tilt table.  If the saw is kept level using the tilt table is a bit awkward.  Use a couple of wedges under the saw so the tilt table is level with the bench top and it does away with the awkward working on the tilt table and the tendency for gravity to work against holding the wood against the uphill fence.

Kurt this is spot on - I should have said this in my post.  If you tip the saw so that the fence is parallel with the floor it makes the job so much easier.  When I first used my tilting table I did struggle a bit as it does take some getting used too.  But when you get it sussed what a great addition to the saw.  My advise to anyone using this attachment is to have a good play with it until you are happy with your use of it.  Once sorted you won't look back as any angle is achievable with a clean cut that can be repeated as many times as you like.  

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4 hours ago, kurtvd19 said:

One tip on using the tilt table.  If the saw is kept level using the tilt table is a bit awkward.  Use a couple of wedges under the saw so the tilt table is level with the bench top and it does away with the awkward working on the tilt table and the tendency for gravity to work against holding the wood against the uphill fence.

How do you adjust for different angles? I assume you have the common 45 set up and 22.5 perhaps?

I have one of the digital angle cubes that I was hoping to rig up for easier & mostly accurate setup

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If the object is to be able to get a precise and reproducible  saw tilt and this will be done frequently with multiple possible angles being cut:

 

Fix the machine to a two plywood sheet base.

Lower is a 1/2" - 3/4"  sheet.  width 3" or more wider than saw base on each side.

Upper is  1/4" sheet

The right edge of upper sheet is at the right side of the saw base.

The upper sheet is attached to the lower using a full size piano hinge.

The left side is as far beyond the base of the saw as is needed to fix a a threaded rod and thumb screw or wingnut to raise that edge.

There would probably need to be spacer pieces at the hinge and outer edges of the upper sheet that are a tad thicker than the thumb screw/wingnut.

 

Someone really OCD could fix the angle gauge from a adjustable miter -  or a stick with marks  at the front right at the hinge.

 

The down side is that it adds weight to an already hefty machine.

A 1" rubber stopper fixed under each corner of the base will provide space for fingers to lift the machine, if it just rents bench space and lives on a shelf.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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1 hour ago, Jaager said:

If the object is to be able to get a precise and reproducible  saw tilt and this will be done frequently with multiple possible angles being cut:

 

Fix the machine to a two plywood sheet base.

Lower is a 1/2" - 3/4"  sheet.  width 3" or more wider than saw base on each side.

Upper is  1/4" sheet

The right edge of upper sheet is at the right side of the saw base.

The upper sheet is attached to the lower using a full size piano hinge.

The left side is as far beyond the base of the saw as is needed to fix a a threaded rod and thumb screw or wingnut to raise that edge.

There would probably need to be spacer pieces at the hinge and outer edges of the upper sheet that are a tad thicker than the thumb screw/wingnut.

 

Someone really OCD could fix the angle gauge from a adjustable miter -  or a stick with marks  at the front right at the hinge.

 

The down side is that it adds weight to an already hefty machine.

A 1" rubber stopper fixed under each corner of the base will provide space for fingers to lift the machine, if it just rents bench space and lives on a shelf.

any chance of a pic...not sure if my poor brain got that properly.   Using the saw this way doesn't the weight of the wood itself start to where on the little hinges that came with the accessory?  Sorry for so many questions that I've been looking for 2 years for decent info. Wasn't able to find anything but a few mentions.

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This is straight out of my head, so no pictures.

Most table saws that can do a rip cut that is other than 90 degree vertical - tilt the blade.

The Byrnes saw holds the blade vertical and tilts the table - the right of the blade part of the table.

Kurt and No Idea suggest that because of gravity and friction,  the wood can move away from the blade -because it  mostly rests on an angled surface.

They mimic the standard table saw by tilting the blade, and making the accessory table horizontal.  The rest of the saw goes with the blade.

The saw comes on its own base.  A heavy one.  They place wedges  under the base to angle it up.  I would want a stop at the right side edge to keep the saw from sliding.

 

My suggestion is more elaborate and only makes sense if a whole lot of beveled ripping is going to be done,  and if several angles are involved.

My picture:

Lay a book flat on a table. Turn it so that the top of the book is facing you and the spine is on your right.  Lift the front cover.

Imagine a small version of the saw sitting on the top cover.   The cover is lifted until the right side saw table accessory is horizontal.

 

Use plywood to make the two book covers.  Use a full size piano hinge as the book spine.   There are holes in each corner of the saw base.

Fix the saw base to the top piece of plywood.  As heavy as the saw is, I think two pieces of 1/2" ply will be needed.  The bottom needs to be wider than the top - enough beyond the hinge the the whole assembly does not flip sideways.

The threaded rod and nut are not needed actually.  A block of wood, square even will hold the top cover at the angle.  A way to fix it in place would probably be a good idea.  

 

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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1 hour ago, Jaager said:

 

Kurt and No Idea suggest that because of gravity and friction,  the wood can move away from the blade -because it  mostly rests on an angled surface.

Actually the wood tends to slide towards the blade - away from the fence which is up hill (to the right) from the blade when the saw sits on the bench.  You do have it right with the "book" tilting the saw so the tilt table is level with the table top.

Kurt Van Dahm

Director

NAUTICAL RESEARCH GUILD

www.thenrg.org

SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS

CLUBS

Nautical Research & Model Ship Society of Chicago

Midwest Model Shipwrights

North Shore Deadeyes

The Society of Model Shipwrights

Butch O'Hare - IPMS

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just curious about the blades.  Could we not simply purchase them from Jim Byrnes on his website?  I know we are all looking for after market blades but maybe the best bet is Jim himself. I certainly can't find a supplier easily in Canada.

Derek

If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea  

Antoine de Saint Exupery

 

Current Builds

Bluenose - Model Shipways - 1:64 Scale

Fair American - Model Shipways - 1:48 Scale

HMS Winchelsea 1764 - Group Build

On Deck

Guns of History Naval Smoothbore Deck Gun - 1:24 Scale

Finished Builds

Mare Nostrum - Artesania Latina - 1:35 Scale

Guns of History Carronade - Model Shipways - 1:24 Scale

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

 

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Derek, 

I'm not sure about the blades.  At the time the document was written, Jim wasn't offering  a selection in blades.    You mght PM him here on MSW and ask.  If he doesn't, use the sources or search for a supplier in Canada.   If you find one, post it here.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans                             Triton Cross-Section   

                                                                                                                       USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War  _(Gallery) Build Log

                                                                                Wasa (Gallery)

                                                                                                                        HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Model Machines currently sells a selection of blades that correspond (perhaps not exactly) to the above document.  I buy direct from him. 

 

 

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That is excellent information, Justin. 

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans                             Triton Cross-Section   

                                                                                                                       USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War  _(Gallery) Build Log

                                                                                Wasa (Gallery)

                                                                                                                        HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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I buy all of my blades from Model Machines I just tend to order quite a few at a time because its expensive to import into the UK.  My view is if I buy from the original supplier it keeps them in business.  I have too many friends who buy cheaper from China and then wonder why their favourite model supplier has gone out of business.  I had a load of blades from Jim about 6 months ago and they will keep me going for the next year :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Having bought the Byrne's Saw many years ago, I read thru this whole thread with interest. There is a lot of good information here. While my use of the saw has tended to be in a rather simple and straightforward application - nothing exotic or requiring angled cuts as in ripping, I find it quite useful in the ways other modelers have chosen to address the issue of angled rip cuts. I've also toyed with purchasing Jim's angled table accessory and may still do so - if the need becomes a reality.

 

I especially like the idea of mounting the saw on a permanently angled base of sorts, using the piano hinge and thumbscrew method as suggested by Jaager. In fact, this basic idea could lead to a number of small additions for convenience in setting up the correct angle for cutting, etc.

 

Hank

Construction Underway:

Entering Builder's Yard - USS STODDARD (DD-566) 1967-68 Configuration (Revell 1:144 FLETCHER - bashed)

In Development - T2 or T3 Fleet Oil Tanker (1:144 Scratch Build Model) - 1950s era

Currently - 3D Design/Printed 1/48 scale various U.S.N. Gun Mounts/Turrets and GFCS Directors (Mk. 34, 37, 38, 54)


Completed:
Armed Virginia Sloop (1768)
Royal Caroline (1748)
Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) (Scratchbuilt)

USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 1967-69 Configuration (Trumpeter 1:200 bashed MISSOURI)

Member:
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