Doreltomin

I've seen windows in very old monasteries in Germany that had this type of spun glass in the pains. The cut off or nib(butzen) was placed in a lower or upper corner to provide the larges unobstructed view.  I have even seen windows with the defect right in the middle adding to the decoration.
 
Fascinating.
 
Rob

Following the Medieval Revival fashion in Europe from around the 1840s these 'Butzenscheiben', as they are called in German, have been used in 'restoration' and imitation projects. They have become associated with a 'romantic' view of small German towns and the likes, but can be seen in France, the UK, and other places as well.

http://www.charlesmillerltd.com/Catalogues/ms301013/lot0347.html
 
Hi Druxey & all,
 
Here is the link to the said model. Certainly for yachts deck covering was not temporary! However we must keep in mind that yachts were the luxury limousines of the times so these little ships were finished in a style not matched by the common warships!

The hull is reinforced and prepared for the production of decks and finishing putty.

I would like to leave one of the ships for me . However, if a lot of money to seduce me, I'm selling. Yes, you are absolutely right. The second copy is significantly offset the cost of production of the first-born.

Hi Alex,
 
the "Standart" emperial yacht is a beautiful and interesting ship.
Also very nice Photo documents that you have. I am amazed that she`s going to be in 1:48 scale. That will turn out in appr. 2,33 meter model-length !!
Am eagery looking foreward to your keellaying to watch this project under way and growing at your shipyard
 
Nils

http://www.charlesmillerltd.com/Catalogues/ms301013/lot0347.html
 
Hi Druxey & all,
 
Here is the link to the said model. Certainly for yachts deck covering was not temporary! However we must keep in mind that yachts were the luxury limousines of the times so these little ships were finished in a style not matched by the common warships!

Hello Engeland, 
 
First of all, I believe your picture does not show a real wooden ship, but instead a replica used for movies. The extreme left of the picture certainly shows an iron hull where the orange spots are rusty patches. If so, the ship is something like a ghost ship where gray-black planks, masts and even sails would seem appropriate.
 
But natural wood from which sailing ships were made doesn't show this colour neither at the beginning, nor when it goes older. Instead they look something like this:
 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/20110417_Lelystad%3B_Batavia_Haven_12_ship_at_Batavia_Harbour.JPG
 
The hulls were made of oak planks protected with a mixture of pitch and tar. When saying tar, you would not think of nowadays tar derived from oil which is mainly black, but instead of some wood distillates which were mostly brownish in colour. 

Hello Mark, 
 
I just have stumbled upon this thread of yours and read everything which was written here so far. Interesting thing, I am also very passionate of English yachts although my favourite period starts a bit earlier with the Stuarts dynasty.
 
Just some quick thoughts for now: yes, painted canvas glued with wet paint over the deck and lately painted over was common practice on English Yachts from the Stuart period already. It was thought a good way to protect the quality people inside the cabins from the water seeping between the planks - at the time, it was somehow inevitable due to the imperfections of the deck caulking.  
 
However, the paint colour was not a common grey... instead it was either the same bulwark red or sometimes even more fancy things like a checkered black and white pattern! But if it is thought that the ship portrayed is new / in the trials, then it may be possible either that the decks are covered with old canvas tarpaulins to protect them, or alternatively that the canvas deck coverings is not yet painted. However, it is certain that the cover of the middle cabin was already painted in red so we may ask ourselves why they would have painted that and not the decks. 
 
As an aside comment, the same technique of painted canvas was used with 19th century railway carriages. Their tops were made of wood, carefully caulked and then a canvas top was laid over and painted. Usually white at the beginning - at least in Britain or Austria- , which white would later became a darker and darker shade of gray. Not from the movie, but from the locomotive's smoke and ashes.... 
 
The pinky colours of the galley chimney and the lower part of the mast: the chimney was in fact a copper tube whose colour when new is, as you know, pinkish and later it turns to a darker pink-grey or even dark green when oxidizes. The same goes for the lower part of the mast, which was coppered up to a certain level to protect the wood against the water spraying from the deck. 
 
Hope this helps

Hello Mark, 
 
I just have stumbled upon this thread of yours and read everything which was written here so far. Interesting thing, I am also very passionate of English yachts although my favourite period starts a bit earlier with the Stuarts dynasty.
 
Just some quick thoughts for now: yes, painted canvas glued with wet paint over the deck and lately painted over was common practice on English Yachts from the Stuart period already. It was thought a good way to protect the quality people inside the cabins from the water seeping between the planks - at the time, it was somehow inevitable due to the imperfections of the deck caulking.  
 
However, the paint colour was not a common grey... instead it was either the same bulwark red or sometimes even more fancy things like a checkered black and white pattern! But if it is thought that the ship portrayed is new / in the trials, then it may be possible either that the decks are covered with old canvas tarpaulins to protect them, or alternatively that the canvas deck coverings is not yet painted. However, it is certain that the cover of the middle cabin was already painted in red so we may ask ourselves why they would have painted that and not the decks. 
 
As an aside comment, the same technique of painted canvas was used with 19th century railway carriages. Their tops were made of wood, carefully caulked and then a canvas top was laid over and painted. Usually white at the beginning - at least in Britain or Austria- , which white would later became a darker and darker shade of gray. Not from the movie, but from the locomotive's smoke and ashes.... 
 
The pinky colours of the galley chimney and the lower part of the mast: the chimney was in fact a copper tube whose colour when new is, as you know, pinkish and later it turns to a darker pink-grey or even dark green when oxidizes. The same goes for the lower part of the mast, which was coppered up to a certain level to protect the wood against the water spraying from the deck. 
 
Hope this helps

Hello Engeland, 
 
First of all, I believe your picture does not show a real wooden ship, but instead a replica used for movies. The extreme left of the picture certainly shows an iron hull where the orange spots are rusty patches. If so, the ship is something like a ghost ship where gray-black planks, masts and even sails would seem appropriate.
 
But natural wood from which sailing ships were made doesn't show this colour neither at the beginning, nor when it goes older. Instead they look something like this:
 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/20110417_Lelystad%3B_Batavia_Haven_12_ship_at_Batavia_Harbour.JPG
 
The hulls were made of oak planks protected with a mixture of pitch and tar. When saying tar, you would not think of nowadays tar derived from oil which is mainly black, but instead of some wood distillates which were mostly brownish in colour. 

Hello Engeland, 
 
First of all, I believe your picture does not show a real wooden ship, but instead a replica used for movies. The extreme left of the picture certainly shows an iron hull where the orange spots are rusty patches. If so, the ship is something like a ghost ship where gray-black planks, masts and even sails would seem appropriate.
 
But natural wood from which sailing ships were made doesn't show this colour neither at the beginning, nor when it goes older. Instead they look something like this:
 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/20110417_Lelystad%3B_Batavia_Haven_12_ship_at_Batavia_Harbour.JPG
 
The hulls were made of oak planks protected with a mixture of pitch and tar. When saying tar, you would not think of nowadays tar derived from oil which is mainly black, but instead of some wood distillates which were mostly brownish in colour. 

Yeah, a couple of joints would be good, and some cold apple cider LOL

Thanks again Jeff,
 
the handicap when modeling a large liner is often to find and choose a suitable scale. Usualy I would build 1:96 or 1:100 but that would work out with 2 meter model length (beast !) and sowith bust all space availability
Scale 1:144 provides an overlookable dimension rating, and is about smallest I can do with my humble tool equipement, and to achieve a nice looking in details, (winches, decks, ..., etc....). Also the stairs /ladders, railings, ( etched part patterns), buckle screws,... and so on, even if very fragile, are at least available at good sorted model ( web-...) shops
 
Nils

Hello my friends,
 
I want to thank you all for your kind words.  It is good to see that compassion around. I will dedicate my Berlin to my Dad and thus I will always remember his passion for the Sea and the naval world.
 
CU soon when I go back to my shipyard regulary
 
Max

Hello Druxey,
 
did you think that this are dolphins? Most of these, I say fishes, have no dorsal fin. So I think that this are more „monster" fishes, like these you could also see also at old maps.
 

 
May be it is one of this species, that I found at Wikipedia. But mostly I think they are fantasy. 
 

Hello,
 
thank you all for your nice comments and likes. Here now the latest update, I finished the inboard planking with the carvings. Next would be the back of the captains seat.
I'm sorry, but I did't know all these special names. But I hope you could follow me 
 

 

 

Bottom boards were removable, Siggi; to bail out water and to access the hoisting bolts.

Well, I bit the bullet and threw out three oars which didn't come up to standard. And organized the rest into categories - 1. almost right, 2. needs a fair bit of work, and 3. Perfect as it is.
 
There were more in the first and third categories than I'd thought.
 
And good news - the most recent half dozen were the best. So maybe I'm getting better as I go along.
 
It's quite cleansing throwing out the unsatisfactory ones. Now they're not sitting there sneering at me every time I go to make another oar.
 
I've marked out the lines of the wales on the plug and also where the oarports will be. Id been wondering how to mark them accurately enough to miss the frames, which are 4mm apart.
 
But the tholes sit in the third wale from the keel, with the oarport plank immediately above. Once the wale is in place I can shape the plank to fit and mark the oarports on it. Then when the ship is fully planked I'll cut them out.
 
When I made the Great Harry I cut the arched gunports in the upper works directly into the planks before fixing them to the ship. I got away with it - barely - but it weakens the planks and it's a bad way to go.
 
Figuring out how to accurately mark out the oarports on the dromon has taken a load off my mind.
 
Oh, and I've made 5 shields. The production line is up and running.
 
Steven

It looks like someone put a guitar pick in the rigging...       I'm wondering it's just not a mistake in the drawing like someone forgot to fill in that area.

Am in the  50% stage of rigging my Victory and looking to begin ordering lumber for a Maori war canoe and a Polynesian double hull using the Holukea as a template.
 
That being said earlier GRSJAX responded to a post advising Polynesian canoes were constructed from Koa wood and gave me a lead on a vendor in Hawaii. Was going to paint like the Holukea but changed my mind and am going with Koa wood to stay in somewhat historical boundaries.
 
Dashi replied to an earlier post and got me interested in the Maori War Canoe and noted those were built from Totura wood. 
 
I will build the Maori canoe first noting the single hull and it has a large amount of decorative carving and will note be as easy as it looks, Since I have never carved anything but a turkey and butchered that on more then one occasion it ought to be interesting.
 
1. I have a good vendor for Koa thanks to GRYJSX in Hawaii.
 
2. Now to the gist of my ramblings I contacted Rod with Forest HoldingsTimber Mill in Tauranga New Zealand, and was quoted a price of $ 57.00 plus export and packing fees. Was this a fair price for a piece of Totura 2"x 4"x 36" am willing to to purchase to stay within historical context instead of using another wood and painting or staining. Totura seems fairly rare only grown in that area from my research and the price seems reasonable.
 
You good folks from that are please respond with advice or another vendor.  
 
Thanks John
 

It has been a bit slow going in the shipyard as of late.  Too many major soccer (futbol) tournaments that need to be watched!   I have been modelling my framework to give me a better understanding of how things will go together with this build.  Below are some snapshots.  Being my first scratch build there is a lot to learn and research... but everybody here at MSW already knows that.  I hope to put an order in for the deck and hull planking wood in the next week.  In the mean time I have some bulkheads to finish up.  I need to set up my build board and then the assembly process can begin.  Enough planning and layout work!  It is time to make sawdust!

Thank you all for your kind comments! Yesterday came to visit me my friend, brought to display their boats, which are made in scale 1:20. Valery has kindly allowed to take photos and show them on this Forum.

Captain Al! The answer to Your question: first I wanted to make the frames from thin strips glued to the block. To do this, made templates of the frames of two halves which are fastened with pins. Using a router made a groove in each half of the pattern. This groove laid thin planks greased with glue, secured with screws. After drying, the glue will get here are half frames. But after much reflection, I abandoned this technology, and used the old tried and tested method of building models which I've used previously. Where shaded black color - must be removed, it turned out symmetrical groove.

My fingertips on fire! There is still the same.