jud

Sounds like the Constitution was wisely managed during the whole engagement.
jud

I would like to add that a healthy amount of wooddust mixed with some glue will brush up small inaccuracies/gaps rather well.

In comparison to the testimony given by Captain Marshal, Its interesting that the testimony from the sailors sound so upbeat and that they were giving the enemy a good licking, like they are going to give a negative view of the fight to a bunch of admirals and senior captains.

Very educational reading. Those captains had to be some of the smartest and bravest men to sail when you think about having to keep their heads while canon shot was flying at them and parts of their ships were raining down on them. Knowing how to keep your ship fighting while it was falling apart around you was no small task. On top of that having to stand tall and strong for your crew's morale and as honor demanded takes a special kind of person.
 
I am currently reading Patrick O'Brien's books. I will be thinking of this now when I reach that book and the Java.

I agree. Especially since the Java shot away Connie's wheel either at the first or second broadside, according to the above!

Sounds like the Constitution was wisely managed during the whole engagement.
jud

Sounds like the Constitution was wisely managed during the whole engagement.
jud

"Lieutenant Robert Mercer of the Royal marines was called in and sworn.
 
 
Q: Had you any of your men at small arms?
A: I believe 34, upwards of 20 on the quarterdeck and 10 on the forecastle.
 
Q:  Did the enemy make use of their small arms much?
A:   Yes, from the decks and from the tops.
 
Q:  Were you much annoyed with the small arms?
A:  The first broadside I believe, there were no small arms, there might be on the 2nd.
 
 
Q: Were your decks exposed to their tops?
A: Yes very much. They could see us to take aim.
 
Q:  Do you remember when the Java attempted to lay the enemy on board?
A:  Yes. Captain Lambert spoke to me about it. He said it was his intention to board and desired me to prepare the marines on that occassion, which was done.
 
Q: Do you know from what circumstances it was prevented?
A:  I understood it was by the loss of the foremast at the time.
 
 
Q: How near did you get to the enemy in the attempt?
A:  Very close, within pistol shot. I only saw two men on board the American at that time. One was on the after part of the quarterdeck, and one in the main top.
 
Q: Were the marines keeping up their fire then?
A: Yes they were and the boarders were all ready. I think the Americans were all waiting under the barracading to receive us.
 
Q:  Did the Americans appear to avoid close action?
A:  Yes, they evidently did. They continually kept away.
 
 
Q: What sort of men were the marines?
A:  Eighteen of them were very young recruits, the rest had been to sea before.

Excepts from the official British court martial (PRO Document: ADMI 5435, page XC 14734) for the loss of HMS Java, 38, to the USS Constitution, 44 . Pretty dry stuff on the whole. The official letter of Lt. Chads (Captain Lambert was killed) is included, which can be found published elsewhere, the decision of the court, and some testimony. Mostly "Do you agree with the contents of Lt. Chads letter", and "Did the men behave bravely", etc.. No bombshells here. 
 
The court seemed much interested in whether many of the Java's casualties, upwards of 120 men, were caused by American small arms fire.
 
The court martial was held on board HMS Gladiator in Portsmouth Harbor, April 23, 1813.
 
"Lieutenant James Saunders of the Royal Navy was called and sworn:
 
Q: Did you suffer much on the forecastle from the enemy's musquetry?
A:  Very much indeed.
 
Q: Were you stationed there?
A: Yes.
 
Q: Did you think the Java had a fair chance of succeeding before the end of the bowsprit was shot away?
A: Yes.
 
Q: In which period of the action did you suffer most?
A: When the bowsprit went.
 
Q: Did the American appear to you to avoid close action at the first part of it?
A: Yes.
 
Q: Did the American appear to keep up her fire early in the action, as she did after the bowsprit was carried away?
A: She slackened her fore after the first broadside of the Java and appeared to be in confusion.
 
Q: Did you understand that the American lost her wheel?
A: I afterwards found that she had lost her wheel by the first broadside from the Java and that four men were killed.
 
 
Mr. James Humble, late Boatswain of the Java was called and sworn.
 
Q: How long had the action lasted before you were wounded?
A: Better than an hour, I believe.
 
Q: Was the Java much disabled before you were wounded?
A: Yes, aloft. The fore top, two planks were shot out of it and lodged into the bunt of the fore sail.
 
Q: Did you suffer much from the musquetry on the forecastle?
A: Yes, and likewise from round and grape.
 
Q: Did you think you had as good [a chance] in the action as the American before you were wounded?
A: They seemed to be very sick upon it.
 
Q: Did you come up again after going below?
A: Yes, I was down about an hour and when I got my arm put a little to rights by a tourniquet, being put on it, nothing else. My hand was carried away and my arm wounded about the elbow. I put my arm into the bosom of my shirt and went up again, when I saw the enemy ahead of us repairing his damage. I had my orders from Lt Chads before the action begun, to cheer up the boarders with my pipe, that they might make a clean spring in boarding.
 
Q: Did the Java receive much damage from the enemy before the Java returned any fire at all?
A: Yes, we received besides what I have stated, much damage in the rigging.
 
Q: Did you think that the Java had a fair chance of succeeding before you were wounded and went below.
A: It appeared to me she would. The second broadside his wheel was carried away, and he got a good touching up about the quarterdeck and forecastle, and he downed fore and main tacks to go a head of us, and when our foremast went, he up courses again, and continued the action. Then I got wounded.
 
John MacDonald, Boatswain's Mate, belonging to the Java, was called in and sworn:
 
Q: Where were you quartered in the action?
A: At the fifth gun on the quarterdeck.
 
Q: Did you think that before the Java was disabled that you had a good chance of beating the enemy's ship?
A: Yes, I think we had as good as they had.
 
Q:  Did the American appear to you to avoid a close action, or not in the early part of the action?
A: They kept at long balls, they kept edging away until the Java was disabled.
 
 
Q:  Did you hear Captain Lambert's order the Java to be laid on board the American?
A:  Yes.
 
Q:  What distance was you from the enemy's stern?
A:  Not quite a cable's length upon our lee beam, the helm was put a weather.
 
Q:  Do you remember the [Java's] bow sprit touching the mizen rigging [of the Constitution].
A:  Yes, it took the mizen rigging which appeared to me to prevent our boarding that the time.
 
 
Q: Were the men all ready?
A:  Yes, they had been called and were all ready for jumping on board, on the forecastle, marines and all.
 
Q:  Did you see any of the enemy's men ready to receive the boarders?
A:  No. I did not see any of them at the time.
 
Q: Did you hang some time by the mizen rigging?
A:  Not long.
 
 
Q: Did they get their chasers out then and rake you?
A: Yes.
 
Q: When you were about to lay the enemy on board, from your seeing no men on her decks, and from the state of your own ship, did you think that the action would have terminated in your favor had not the foremast been carried away?
A: Yes, I think it would.
 
Q: Were you ever in action before?
A:  Yes.
 
Christopher Speedy, Captain of the forecastle was called in and sworn:
 
 
Q: Were you on the forecastle during the whole of the action?
A:Yes, from the beginning to the last, quartered at the foremost carronade.
 
Q:  Before the Java was disabled by losing the end of her bowsprit and foremast, did you think you had a as good of the action as the American?
A:  Yes, I thought we were going on very well. About the middle of the action I thought that they had had enough of it, and was making off from us. I saw her stern towards us, and came round on the other tack.
 
 
Q: Did they annoy you much on the forecastle by musquetry? 
A:  More by round and grape [and] double headed. I picked up  five bar shot which fell out of the foremast by rolling. I put them in our guns and fired them back again.
 
Q: Did the American appear to avoid close action?
A: He did always avoid close action. He kept away when ever the smoke cleared away, we always found him yawing away from us.
 
 
Q: Do you remember when the Java endeavored to board her.
A:  Yes. It was just as the foremast fell.
 
Q: Were you all ready for boarding them?
A:  They were called on the forecastle and gangways, and were all ready, boarders and marines.
 
Q: Did you see many of the enemy ready to oppose the boarders?
A: Not many on deck. I saw some men there,but there were a great many in the tops.
 
 
Q: From the few men you saw on the deck of the enemy's ship,, had captain Lambert's intention succeeded in laying on board, have you reason to believe it would have been successful?
A: Yes, I have.
 
Q: Was you ever in action before?
A:  Yes I have.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Don't believe that whatever is used for a surface plate needs to be level, just a uniform flatness, you are measuring from a reference plane and as long as your model stays put, it makes no difference how plumb it is. Glad to see that you made your own, sorry to hear that you found it needed improvement. Obtaining the Surface Gage you used was a good follow up. From what I can see, it looks like you are doing well with your model.
jud.

Don't believe that whatever is used for a surface plate needs to be level, just a uniform flatness, you are measuring from a reference plane and as long as your model stays put, it makes no difference how plumb it is. Glad to see that you made your own, sorry to hear that you found it needed improvement. Obtaining the Surface Gage you used was a good follow up. From what I can see, it looks like you are doing well with your model.
jud.

Don't believe that whatever is used for a surface plate needs to be level, just a uniform flatness, you are measuring from a reference plane and as long as your model stays put, it makes no difference how plumb it is. Glad to see that you made your own, sorry to hear that you found it needed improvement. Obtaining the Surface Gage you used was a good follow up. From what I can see, it looks like you are doing well with your model.
jud.

Thanks for your responses jud and grsjax..None of the surfaces in my house were exactly level including our granite counter top.
The two big issues were getting the inverted hull level with a working surface due to the sheer and the errors I made athwartship
with the two large main deck pieces. Prior to using this tool I did make my own marking device but was unable to adjust it properly.
Getting the mark over the four sponsons was critical. This was my effort in marking a water line. 
 
John Elwood

A surface plate and one of those devices does a good job for this kind of marking. You can make your own, as many here have done, the home grown models can be simple or complex, both working well for the intended use. A block with a hole bored with it's C/L at the desired height with a pencil poked through the hole, a table or even a clear spot on the floor, will do the job. Good that these types of aids are brought up in posts periodically, new builders may not have seen the things that others have found useful in the past.
jud

A surface plate and one of those devices does a good job for this kind of marking. You can make your own, as many here have done, the home grown models can be simple or complex, both working well for the intended use. A block with a hole bored with it's C/L at the desired height with a pencil poked through the hole, a table or even a clear spot on the floor, will do the job. Good that these types of aids are brought up in posts periodically, new builders may not have seen the things that others have found useful in the past.
jud

I don't know if this helps at all but I was new to soldering in respect to making models. I purchased for Toolzone in the UK their item no. HB288. It is a micro butane soldering iron and blow torch which you fill from an ordinary gas lighter refill. The soldering tip is removable so that you can use the device as either an iron or a torch. I have found the torch to be wonderful with a very small, very hot flame absolutely perfect for models.
 
I found by lining up the pieces to be soldered, add a paste flux to exactly the place you want fixed, a tiny amount of solder which will stick to the flux, apply heat until the solder melts and hey presto, job done. I discovered that the solder will go exactly where the flux was placed which enabled me to do very small soldering work.
 
Hope this helps.

I will try to turn some of the Corian I have and see how small I can go (diameter). I also want to try other things like bending it (with a little heat?).
As far as I am concerned, ship modeling is just that and I don't call them 'wooden ship models'. Like I mentioned, there are beautiful museum quality models made out of ivory.
If you like to use wood for those parts made out of wood on the real ship, fine. But shouldn't you also be using steel for the cannons (not brass, although there were some, of course) and no plastic what so ever? Hemp should be used for the rigging, no synthetics, no nylon, of course. That I think is stretching things a bit too far  .
 
For those interested, I will let you know about my machining experiments later on.

Would appear that these tables prove an unadvertised fact that the Royal Navy segregated it's sailors by height. The extremely tall were sent to the 100 Gun vessels and the midgets  went to the sloops, every seaman between were distributed on a height and guns ratio. Interesting what can be gleaned from and proven from dissociated standardizing tables.
jud

Have you seen MicroMarks expensive tool? You'll put out a c note for it easy. I made my own for less than 20 bucks. I used my unimat, drill press and tap set. Week of spare time. You can do it too just by looking at the pics. Now get to work and save money. BCNU

Mark,
IMHO, soft solder is great for circuit boards, wiring and plumbing.  For ship modeling silver solder is easier and stronger for what you want to do.  The last thing you need is to be rigging your model and have one of the ears pop off when tensioning a line.   As said above, jig the pieces together and/or use several different melt points of solder.  If you do go with silver, paste is really easy to work with versus chips of silver.  Having done both, I stay with the paste on small parts.   Good luck
Allan

Most will say Silver Solder which is good and you will need a torch to do it. You can obtain solder with different melting points that would allow you to do the work in steps. I would probably braze the flanges on one at a time, You can fabricate a heat sink to protect earlier work while working your way around. You also can obtain a putty like, "Heat Stop" from Brownells. Heat Stop would work with Silver Soldering also.
jud

Most will say Silver Solder which is good and you will need a torch to do it. You can obtain solder with different melting points that would allow you to do the work in steps. I would probably braze the flanges on one at a time, You can fabricate a heat sink to protect earlier work while working your way around. You also can obtain a putty like, "Heat Stop" from Brownells. Heat Stop would work with Silver Soldering also.
jud

Most will say Silver Solder which is good and you will need a torch to do it. You can obtain solder with different melting points that would allow you to do the work in steps. I would probably braze the flanges on one at a time, You can fabricate a heat sink to protect earlier work while working your way around. You also can obtain a putty like, "Heat Stop" from Brownells. Heat Stop would work with Silver Soldering also.
jud

Most will say Silver Solder which is good and you will need a torch to do it. You can obtain solder with different melting points that would allow you to do the work in steps. I would probably braze the flanges on one at a time, You can fabricate a heat sink to protect earlier work while working your way around. You also can obtain a putty like, "Heat Stop" from Brownells. Heat Stop would work with Silver Soldering also.
jud

For a part that big (mass) you'll need a very large soldering iron to get the metal hot enough to allow a good bond for solder.     Large irons don't lend we to small parts, so this is therefore probably a job for a torch.   However, with either solder or brazing rod, you'll have to set up a jig to hold the flanges to the tube while you're heating it because this job will have to be done in one go, or, as you say, if you try one joint at a time, the others will slip off.  
 
One alternative is a micro-torch, which has a small, hot flame, but you have to be quick before the heat gets to the other flanges.  And, they're not cheap and work best on a hot fuel like oxy-acetylene.  Even with a micro-torch, I'd set up a jig.
 
Nice sketch, and I which I were working on such a large scale.