jud

Great log, Landlubber Mike! I think it will be very helpful to me when I get to that stage in my build.

Sails were valuable and expensive to replace, so if some were furled and some set would be normal, some furled and some struck below was just as likely. The answer can only be, 'It Depends', Any combination would have happened at one time or another. I like the idea of furled sails on that model.
jud

Thank you, jud!

Sails were valuable and expensive to replace, so if some were furled and some set would be normal, some furled and some struck below was just as likely. The answer can only be, 'It Depends', Any combination would have happened at one time or another. I like the idea of furled sails on that model.
jud

Sails were valuable and expensive to replace, so if some were furled and some set would be normal, some furled and some struck below was just as likely. The answer can only be, 'It Depends', Any combination would have happened at one time or another. I like the idea of furled sails on that model.
jud

Start of the Deckhouse
 
I’m going to depart from the kit’s build sequence a bit. The next step in the instructions is to install about 100 triangular bulwark braces around the outside of the main deck. I’m going to hold off on that until I’ve fabricated the deckhouses and crane houses because of the need to place sandpaper on the deck and then rub the house bottoms on it to get a good fit with the deck. Given the limited clearance between the bulwarks I’m sure I would end up breaking off a lot of the braces.
 
The Main Deckhouse is made of up 3 levels. Each level in turn is a stack of 3 laser cut wooden pieces and a thin plastic top deck. The bottom wood piece is a framework so that the amount of surface area that has to be sanded to match the deck underneath it is minimized. The top wood piece is a 1/16 inch sheet that is sanded to form a camber, its center staying 1/16 thick and the outer edges sanded to nothing. Here’s what 1 set looks like:

 
Here’s all 12 pieces dry fitted in a stack:

The horizontal column of water coming from the props of old freighters is not spinning, it does have a boiling appearance, the props turn through stationary water and compress it aft, hence the boil. Also the liberty ship was not a new design, the hull  was a design that was at sea when the war started and had been there for some years. Accommodation were shifted for the crew to occupy the passenger spaces amidships. The crew members and Officers lived and ate in the amidships structure and the Navy Gun Crews were accommodated under the aft 5" gun. Ships were needed and this type would serve the need if there were enough and there were already plans, specifications and the teething problems had been worked through except for the rivet to a welded method of construction which did need some refining. If in fact the top and bottom of the rudder was offset as shown in the photo, 'I believe the photo is of a failed slip joint in the rudder post ', in practice would have more to do with the loaded ships draft as opposed to an empty one. Ever watch a lightly loaded freighter go by with half the prop in the air? Offsetting the rudder would cause drag when speed was a life saving part of life at sea in those times, running with brakes on, slows you down and places extra and useless stress on the rudder gear, Not buying into the idea that offset rudder halves was the norm.
jud.

Nope, the offset rudder is an intentional design feature called a contravene rudder. It is a form of contravene propeller, a term described in the SNAME glossary of maritime terms. Any water behind the propeller moving faster than the undisturbed water surrounding the ship contains kinetic energy and in addition to steering the ship this rudder's job is to maximize recovery of this kinetic energy by straightening the flow.
 
A photo of the American Victory in dry dock shows this same rudder feature. This photo was published in the NRJ several years ago.
 
In PN Thomas's British Tramps, Volume I general arrangement drawings of Liberty ships do not indicate this feature. In fact the Liberty's British predessor appears to have a single plate rudder. Thomas also says that a number of Liberty ship rudders failed and the rudder was redesigned late in the war. So the American Liberty's rudders were redesigned. The question is whether this feature was incorporated when the Americans revised the British design or was it added when the rudders were revised late in the war.
 
Roger Pellett

The horizontal column of water coming from the props of old freighters is not spinning, it does have a boiling appearance, the props turn through stationary water and compress it aft, hence the boil. Also the liberty ship was not a new design, the hull  was a design that was at sea when the war started and had been there for some years. Accommodation were shifted for the crew to occupy the passenger spaces amidships. The crew members and Officers lived and ate in the amidships structure and the Navy Gun Crews were accommodated under the aft 5" gun. Ships were needed and this type would serve the need if there were enough and there were already plans, specifications and the teething problems had been worked through except for the rivet to a welded method of construction which did need some refining. If in fact the top and bottom of the rudder was offset as shown in the photo, 'I believe the photo is of a failed slip joint in the rudder post ', in practice would have more to do with the loaded ships draft as opposed to an empty one. Ever watch a lightly loaded freighter go by with half the prop in the air? Offsetting the rudder would cause drag when speed was a life saving part of life at sea in those times, running with brakes on, slows you down and places extra and useless stress on the rudder gear, Not buying into the idea that offset rudder halves was the norm.
jud.

The horizontal column of water coming from the props of old freighters is not spinning, it does have a boiling appearance, the props turn through stationary water and compress it aft, hence the boil. Also the liberty ship was not a new design, the hull  was a design that was at sea when the war started and had been there for some years. Accommodation were shifted for the crew to occupy the passenger spaces amidships. The crew members and Officers lived and ate in the amidships structure and the Navy Gun Crews were accommodated under the aft 5" gun. Ships were needed and this type would serve the need if there were enough and there were already plans, specifications and the teething problems had been worked through except for the rivet to a welded method of construction which did need some refining. If in fact the top and bottom of the rudder was offset as shown in the photo, 'I believe the photo is of a failed slip joint in the rudder post ', in practice would have more to do with the loaded ships draft as opposed to an empty one. Ever watch a lightly loaded freighter go by with half the prop in the air? Offsetting the rudder would cause drag when speed was a life saving part of life at sea in those times, running with brakes on, slows you down and places extra and useless stress on the rudder gear, Not buying into the idea that offset rudder halves was the norm.
jud.

Very nice build you have a great eye for detail - I would be hard put getting to the level you have working off a set of plans let alone Photos. Nicely executed etch for the fire control radars and especially nice detail in the 5" mounts. Cheers Pete

Some photos of the Fletcher I was a gunners mate aboard, we were in a collision on 19 june 1960, killed more than the Kamikaze that hit between the stacks while she was on picket duty in Leyte Gulf, both on the net if interested. The 3" 50 is not aboard the Ammen, but it is a good photo of the 3" gun, the 5" guns are in the configuration you want for the updated Fletcher you have, photo was just after collision, just before dry docking, counter flooding had leveled her out.
Doing some nice work, other than the lack of K guns, different torpedo tubes and the hedge hog launcher and guns needing some fine tuning, she looks good, only someone who served aboard such ships would be as fussy as I.

I think I missed the problem that started this.
This looks like a POB build.
It also looks like Burroak is trying to get by with a single layer of planking.
My thoughts: in POB the molds are generally spaced too far apart to provide an unambiguous surface for the planking to lay against.
Wood is organic - it has inherent variability in response to stress.  The distance between molds gives the planking an opportunity to
display that variability.
I doubt that even the most precise thickness sander can produce stock without some +/- variability along and between planks.
The original shipwrights had to adz or plane the surface of the planking to get a smooth surface,  we should expect to do sanding,
or scrape, or plane.  It is probably wise to leave the planks a tad thick to provide something to remove without being able to read print
through a too thin final thickness plank.
The planking is going to react to changes in heat and humidity over time.  Without a near solid support and having been forcefully
clamped while the glue sets up, the planks are going to flex and swell at different rates.

Hull Fittings
 
Light port lids: First clamping a string to each mast at the height of the top and using a sharp very soft lead pencil I lightly marked the chainplate postions to ensure I didn't put a lid in the way. For the positions of the large and medium lids I used the NMM '1768 as fitted draught' zaz7844. For the positions of the small lids I used NMM draught zaz6587 because they aren't shown on the other draughts. Both the 1768 proposed and as fitted draughts have a medium lid slightly down and abaft of the fore channels and a large lid midway under the main channels which differs to the AOTS. I have removed a part section from the main channels to allow for this large lid which is my interpretation of the 'as fitted' draught. As I'd given the hull a coat of poly I needed to sand the position of each lid for the white glue to hold. So in total I have 15 port lids per side, 5 of each size.
 
Blooper: I made the large lids several weeks ago and forgot I'd used the ca gel for the hinges so when I tried to glue the medium hinges on with the liquid ca it didn't stick very well and soaked into the wood. Silently cursing my stupidity I soaked the hinges off with acetone, cut some new medium lids and started again.
 
Navel hoods were fairly straightforward requiring a slight soak and bend introduced to follow the hull. The horse holes have a downward curve and flare.
 
The hull looks a bit rough at this stage which should eventually be fixed with a coat of poly after completion of the hull fittings. Now on to those steps...
 
Cheers Dashi
 
 

Red- thanks for the kind words.
David B - I thought about adding plating with aluminum tape ( the thickness of sheet styrene would be over scale) but after playing with it on scrap wood I've decided not to. 90% of it looked OK but there were enough problems (wrinkles, uneven edges, etc) that I had no doubt I would have ended up stripping it all off. I've got a good, smooth finish on the hull and I'm just going to go with that.

Bob, try some thin wire and twist it up in a drill, like an egg beater drill so it goes slow.
 
Jud, it is the Seaman Apprentices that fish out easily and drip dry well, yes?  :-)

Henry, Jud, Frankie,  Thanks for the answer.  In the pictures on the Pequot website there are indeed turnbuckles at the bottom of the shrouds.  They look to be about six feet long or twice the height of the bulwark.  The ends of the ratboards are round, about 1.5 inches in diameter.  So now all I have to do is make some steel cable.  Thanks again. 
 
Bob

Late stage sailing ships of the Ocean Carrier faze used them too. I think they are likely wood. I'm not an expert on the period but I know they were wood leading into the WWII era and I can't imagine why steel would be chosen. "Ratboards" is a term I see in use for them but they are still under the umbrella of "Ratlines". They are 2" X 2"or 1.5" hardwood and they are attached to the shrouds with square lashings with a bit of overlap on each end.

Steel Navy, the single post masts survived through WW 2 and were supported by steel cable. If there were no ladders up the mast then shrouds were doubled with wood cross members clamped to the cable, 'served as ratlines', look close and you will probably see turn buckles on the lower ends of the shrouds. As the top hamper gained in size and weight, triangle masts were retrofitted. We used rat guards on the mooring lines and a Seaman Apprentice to place and remove them,  those Apprentices allow themselves  to be fished out with lots of enthusiasm, they also drip dry well. No rat guards, rat lines or boards in the rigging, climbing stubs welded to the mast or ladders were used to climb the masts.
jud

Steel Navy, the single post masts survived through WW 2 and were supported by steel cable. If there were no ladders up the mast then shrouds were doubled with wood cross members clamped to the cable, 'served as ratlines', look close and you will probably see turn buckles on the lower ends of the shrouds. As the top hamper gained in size and weight, triangle masts were retrofitted. We used rat guards on the mooring lines and a Seaman Apprentice to place and remove them,  those Apprentices allow themselves  to be fished out with lots of enthusiasm, they also drip dry well. No rat guards, rat lines or boards in the rigging, climbing stubs welded to the mast or ladders were used to climb the masts.
jud

HI Walt,
 
This may have more info that what you want, but here's a link:  http://www.pettigrews.org.uk/lm/page030a.htm
 
There is an excellent article in the database here:http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-masts-and-yards.php
 
There's also these:  
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12265-mast-shaping-help/
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12533-working-the-masts/
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2876-octagonal-spars/
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2128-octagon-portion-of-a-yardmast/

Thanks for that Wayne - it makes sense and adds a tiny improvement to the plans as well so I will re-do using that approach. 

I think that as a rule I would think of a water line as the inside of the hull planking.  Thus, the water, like the inside of the planking, will end at a point that is the distance of the planking thickness from the outer rabbet line; this point will create a line with the rabbet line that is perpendicular to the water line.  Think of it as the planking being drawn in, but only the inner side and end line of the planking.  This is something I have started doing in the last few years.
 
So, I would construct a circle with the radius of the thickness of the planking (3" in  my example) and the center at the intersection of your construction line and the side of the  keel.  This circle gives the depth of the planking that is let into the keel.  Then terminate your water line (or polyline marker) on the circle so that the line is tangent to the circle.  Draw a line from this  point to the circle center and you will have the 90 degree line representing the end of the planking.
 
Is this why the old drawings have the water lines set into the keel?  I think so but can't say I have read this  anywhere, it just makes sense to me.
 

 
The inner rabbet line as drawn on the plans (parallel to the outer rabbet line) is a kind of fictional convention  since it does not exist on  the ship when built.
 
Wayne

The 'Joys of fairing' (repeatedly). Joking side I do like fairing though the ancient rule of 'if it feels wrong then it is wrong' usually applies and I have already re-done several. I am also taking some liberties with the process which are probably not correct but in the big scheme of things I don't think it will hurt that much.
 
To run through the process I adjust the line colours from the layer colour as I move. On the body and profile lines that are completed are light green (as is the central station line). The current 'active' waterline is yellow. On the half breadth O also tend to use Light Grey to colour out my uncertain lines and to remind me to 'miss' them - not forgetting that left hand side 'bad' station lines should be repeated on the right otherwise you could select that line where the polyline crosses and get a slightly out of sync line.
 
Anyway as that probably made no sense except to four people in the universe here are some 'action' shots.
 
 
So below you can see 'done' light green lines and the current active yellow
 

 
Here are some 'bad' station lines that I have coloured yellow just to make them more obvious. Note the bottom one covers both the left and right halves.
 

 
 
I take the start point from the rabbett on the bow.
 

 
And the same on the stern
 

 
Once the construction lines are dropped I am starting (and this may be heretical) from an adjusted keel line. Since the keel tapers at bow and stern I have aplied the taper - as I will apply it on the model (so not gradually over the entire keel) and am starting from there. On the original plan the waterlines start much deeper so I suspect they are copying the rabbett depth so this may be a bad idea (if any of the 4 has an opinion on this please say)
 

 
Once the two marker lines are done the left is mirrored onto the right section and a bezier joins them together
 

 
 
- not forgetting to 'miss' the dodgy grey lines and all done. I then always change my current work lines to green (for completed) but do not set up the next line as I have forgotten (in the past) whether that was a line I had completed but forgot to change colour or a line ready  to be done. I found it easier to leave it in a stable state which prevented mental stress when re-starting.
 

 
If anyone disagrees vociferously with me using those two rabbett lines as the start point then also please say. I vaguely recollect being told to use those years ago but as that was on MSW1 and around six years ago have utterly forgotten.
 
 
 
 

If you are going to accurately "weather" a ship model that has a copper sheathed bottom, there won't be any copper color to be seen.  Even a new coppered bottom will, within a few weeks, turn to a verdigris green color.  Once the vessel has been in the water for a few months, that will remain to some extent at the waterline, but below that it will be fouled with a lot of dark green and dark brown growth which will look almost black from a distance.  For modeling purposes, if one wants the "used" look, rather than a pristine "as built" presentation, one might as well use paper sheets rather than the fancy copper foil the kit makers sell and paint it accordingly.  Trying to achieve a "patina" on a copper bottom by treating the copper is a lot harder than just painting it.  Even left alone, new copper will turn a pleasant, and accurate, brown color after it's been in the case for a few years.  Take a look at the pennies in your pocket.