Mike Y

Hello,
 
yesterday I worked hard to finish the first 10 spokes. (Not mentioned those who did't make it) But the result is I think good. I'm not satisfied with all spokes, but it is the best result I could archive. Tomorrow I will see to finish the rest.
 

 

 

 
Regards,
Siggi

Now that I'm done with the ratlines, it's back to the other rigging.  I had previously rigged the aft braces, and needed to do the fore braces.  The fore braces attach to the bowsprit with a collar, which is supposed to go between the bowsprit chocks and the iron ring.  Well, I placed the chocks and the ring per the plans, rather than figuring out before-hand how much crap was supposed to go in that space (lesson learned here).  There are already ropes doubled up in this space, and there was no way that a collar was going to fit here as well, so I placed the collar on the forward side of the iron ring, simply because there's just nowhere else to put it without going all the way back and remaking the bowsprit, which I'm just not going to do as that would set me back months.  "Good Enough" time.
 
Making the collar...
 
Starting with a pair of 5/32" double blocks, and a couple of 6" lengths of .025" dark brown rope, and a couple of long pieces (48") of .012" tan rope.  
 
Step 1 - Make a couple of eyes in the ends of both brown ropes for the lashing.

 
Step 2 - Seize the two brown ropes together to form the bottom of the collar that will be lashed around the bowsprit.

 
Step 3 - Seize the double blocks into the brown ropes.

 
Step 4 - Seize the long tan lines under the brown ropes.  These will the the standing ends of the fore braces.

 
Step 5 - Lash the collar to the bowsprit with brown thread.  I still haven't figured out a decent way to take pictures of these lashings under the bowsprit.

 
Now it's ready to actually rig the fore braces.  These lines run from the standing end at the collar up to the pendants handing from the ends of the Spreader Yard, then back through the outside hole in the double blocks in the collar, and then to the bow where they are belayed on the inner cleats on the bulwarks next to the bowsprit.

 
I'll have to get a shot against a darker backgroud at some point.
 
The deck is getting really covered by loose rope ends now, cleaning all of them up and making coils is going to be quite a project.
 
Next I need to rig the top yard, but that will likely be Saturday, as I have plans after work tomorrow.

I certainly wouldn't change yours Alistair, this is a hobby in which we are constantly learning, and going back to completed projects just doesn't make any sense to me.  I've seen plenty of models with coils done like yours, and I've seen photo's of museum models with coils done both like yours, and in other ways that don't make any sense at all (like open coils laying all around the belaying points on the deck to the point where it would be impossible to get to the belaying points without crossing two rings of rope coils).
 
If I hadn't gone to the Festival of Sail in San Diego, I'd probably be more than happy to do them by hanging the top of the coils over the belaying points, but since I saw them on both working ships, and the museum ship (Surprise) done differently, that's what my new goal is.
 
Here are some of the photo's I took while in San Diego that I'm sort of trying to use as a reference while finishing this up.
 

 
The method that they hang the coils from the belaying points is actually really simple.  They make up the rope coil, then grab the line that remains between the belay point and the coil, pull it through the coil, twist the loop formed by that rope, and stick the end of that loop over the end of the belaying pin/cleat, and bam, the coil is hung!
 
I've been playing with methods of using the actual end of the line from the rigging to loop over the coil in the same way, but it's really difficult to get it to hang right, so I switched to making the 'hanging' loop from the coil itself.  This method works much easier, but I lose the detail of the rope loop coming from inside of the coil and over it, but it's pretty likely that the only person that would ever notice that detail would be me.  

I'm glad you know what topics are of interest to me on an internet forum.  
 
You might also notice that I did not add anything to this thread until it left the topic as you list it above, and went into the "why doesn't everyone else do it this way" area, with more than a little bit of derision implied for those who are foolish enough to simply buy their wood to build a model, and the implication that their work will never "stand out", or they aren't an "artist".
 
I was simply providing some input from the (apparently) non-artistic side.  I'll go back to building my ugly boats out of lego bricks now.

So I'll go one step further for those that still seem to think that I should 'collect my own wood' rather than purchasing what I need. 
 
I have exactly zero interest in doing that.  I like building models.  I have no interest in acquiring the large tools needed to break down the parts of a tree into piles of wood that have to sit in storage for years before I can use it for modeling ships.  
This is a hobby that I enjoy, and wood harvesting, cutting, and aging is not a hobby that I have an interest in.
 
For some people those are two facets of the same hobby.  For me, that's like telling someone who makes plastic models that they need to make their own plastic and pour their own molds.  It's two completely separate hobbies that just happen to flow one into the other, and in my case (and I'm sure the vast majority of ship modelers) that first hobby just isn't an interest for me.
 
If you think that my models are 'flat' or not 'artistic' or whatever because of that, well, that's perfectly fine, because I'm not building my models for you, I'm building my models for me, and I'm perfectly fine with buying my 'fake' boxwood or whatever else I deem to look nice for the model that I'm building.

Frederick Henrik af Chapman was one of the first ship designers, if not the first, to base ship design on scientific principles. He is thought a great deal of, not only here in Sweden.
 
There are some beautiful models of some of his ships, many in large scale, in Stockholm Maritime Museum. Most of his ships were good sailers although that, unfortunately, couldn't have been said for the Royal yacht Amphion which he also designed and which by all accounts didn't live up to expectations. He was much better at warships. Amphion's stern and cabin are preserved and on display in the museum. Besides modernising Sweden's offshore fleet, he built her inshore galley fleet and also many of the dockyard buildings at Karlskrona naval base. These are still in existance, including the mast crane – a photo of which I seem to remember appeared on an MSW thread recently under, I think, 'Amazing Photographs'.
 
I have been meaning to get the Dover publication, but I do have another interesting book on Chapman. This is 'F.H. Chapman – the First Naval Architect and his Work', by Daniel G Harris. Harris is Canadian, but his wife is Swedish and he studied Chapman for much of his life. The book was first printed in 1989. I don't know if there have been subsequent revisions, but it is probably available second hand. It is a first class read if you are interested.

Small status update - frame installation is slowly progressing. Also marked the cutoff points and gun ports.
Decided to skip the sweep ports on this model - they really do not look good with Hahn frame spacing - sweep port is narrower than the distance between frames. 
But I will definitely do them on a next model, that have a correct framing (as in TFFM), not a simplified one.
 

 

 
P.S.: careful viewer can mention a magnetic bar in the background, holding some hand tools. Really handy thing! Very happy with it.

Alexandru, proxxon service can send you new plastic for the wheels.
Also, try removing the blade, detach the motor belt and rotate wheels by hand - maybe wheel bearings are broken and they glitch from time to time, breaking the blade when one wheel gets stuck.

Mark, thanks for the scan. No such thing in my plans, guess it is just something for builder to decide
It is not a blocking problem, pretty clear how to close that gap, need to select the best alternative and do it.

Because you do need hell lot of big, expensive and otherwise useless tools (big bandsaw, big tablesaw, thickness sander). Not everybody have a workshop
What is the use for that tools after you finally cut your very local tree into pieces? They will just collect dust.
 
While a perfect quality wood is just a few clicks away. It is smooth, has no defects and do not require any tools to start using it.  You only need a small tools that you need for actual modelling. 
Actual wood selection is frequently done by reading others build logs, and thinking "wow, I also want a wood like that". 
So instead of saying "swiss pear" or "holly" one can say "that white crisp wood I saw in Remco's buildlog", but it will cause some confusion, isn't it?
 
If a lot of people are willing to pay for "pear,box and holly" instead of buying big tools to cut the wood themselves - that only means that they are not smart enough, and not making a rational choices, of course. And not a real builders, obviously. It is just like building a lego bricks, if you do not cut your own wood out of the log.

Because you do need hell lot of big, expensive and otherwise useless tools (big bandsaw, big tablesaw, thickness sander). Not everybody have a workshop
What is the use for that tools after you finally cut your very local tree into pieces? They will just collect dust.
 
While a perfect quality wood is just a few clicks away. It is smooth, has no defects and do not require any tools to start using it.  You only need a small tools that you need for actual modelling. 
Actual wood selection is frequently done by reading others build logs, and thinking "wow, I also want a wood like that". 
So instead of saying "swiss pear" or "holly" one can say "that white crisp wood I saw in Remco's buildlog", but it will cause some confusion, isn't it?
 
If a lot of people are willing to pay for "pear,box and holly" instead of buying big tools to cut the wood themselves - that only means that they are not smart enough, and not making a rational choices, of course. And not a real builders, obviously. It is just like building a lego bricks, if you do not cut your own wood out of the log.

Because you do need hell lot of big, expensive and otherwise useless tools (big bandsaw, big tablesaw, thickness sander). Not everybody have a workshop
What is the use for that tools after you finally cut your very local tree into pieces? They will just collect dust.
 
While a perfect quality wood is just a few clicks away. It is smooth, has no defects and do not require any tools to start using it.  You only need a small tools that you need for actual modelling. 
Actual wood selection is frequently done by reading others build logs, and thinking "wow, I also want a wood like that". 
So instead of saying "swiss pear" or "holly" one can say "that white crisp wood I saw in Remco's buildlog", but it will cause some confusion, isn't it?
 
If a lot of people are willing to pay for "pear,box and holly" instead of buying big tools to cut the wood themselves - that only means that they are not smart enough, and not making a rational choices, of course. And not a real builders, obviously. It is just like building a lego bricks, if you do not cut your own wood out of the log.

Minor update for the ship... a big one for me.
 
Planking continues.  No pics yet.  But while waiting for glue to try, etc. I've been busy working on carvings... or trying to anyway.  Also made minor progress on the longboat and a few drawings for parts needing to be cut out.
 
So.. the carvings.  The picture shows the first one I've attempted..  well actually it was the 4th attempt and hopefully, I can live with it.  The first two carvings I'll need are the name cartouche on the stern and Arms of France above the stern windows.  Mulling it over, I went for the "easy one".    I soaked them in isopropyl for about 12 hours and that removed most of the char.
 
I ended up doing bas-relief style on it after several failures of trying to carve the letters such that they stand proud.  Not going to happen in my lifetime. So I ended up removing the char as I carved out about 1/2mm deep leaving the lip and lettering (as one area not the individual letters) standing proud.  A touch of well-thinned brown paint (used a needle for this) and what I wanted highlighted is now about as good as it will get.  It actually looks better in real-life as most of us don't have eyes with macro mode.  
 
Onwards...... 

 

Mark, thanks for the scan. No such thing in my plans, guess it is just something for builder to decide
It is not a blocking problem, pretty clear how to close that gap, need to select the best alternative and do it.

Contacted European service center, they helped quickly - just "send it to this address with this mail coverstion printed inside the box, so we will know what to do". Got a new dremel in a few weeks, so now I have a double set of accessories and a spare charger
John, thanks again for the heads up. I haven't received any malls from Amazon where dremel qas initiallu purchased..

Surprised myself and installed all that weirdly shaped bow frames in just 4 hours. 
 

 
Pretty weird looking gap between the last frame and the stem, looks like a broken tooth. But it is not a mistake, there are only 40 frames in the jig. Need few more to cover the gap.
 
This is how Peter (Mr. Hollom) solved that problem in his build:

 
But I am not sure if it will look good (especially since I will have no wales or planks on one side), and will try to insert one more frame in the middle of that gap or maybe glue it directly to the stem.
 
One of the Hahn's drawings actually show two extra frames, that are not present on a framing plan / jig plan / frame plans. That extra frames are glued to the stem and to each other. Hmmm....

Will try different options to end up with the most even spacing. 
I truly wonder why Hahn omitted one (or two) extra frames, would make life so much easier. 

Surprised myself and installed all that weirdly shaped bow frames in just 4 hours. 
 

 
Pretty weird looking gap between the last frame and the stem, looks like a broken tooth. But it is not a mistake, there are only 40 frames in the jig. Need few more to cover the gap.
 
This is how Peter (Mr. Hollom) solved that problem in his build:

 
But I am not sure if it will look good (especially since I will have no wales or planks on one side), and will try to insert one more frame in the middle of that gap or maybe glue it directly to the stem.
 
One of the Hahn's drawings actually show two extra frames, that are not present on a framing plan / jig plan / frame plans. That extra frames are glued to the stem and to each other. Hmmm....

Will try different options to end up with the most even spacing. 
I truly wonder why Hahn omitted one (or two) extra frames, would make life so much easier. 

That's interesting on the hawse timbers, Mike since the pictures in his "Ships of the American Revolution" show the timbers. On the Hahn plans I've seen, some are misnamed as "bollard timber" or just unnamed.   There's no cut-outs in the build board either.   I'm attaching a PDF of the one's I have scanned from my build.  
 
Hawse Timbers.pdf
 
 
This post, http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/5339-licorne-by-mtaylor-pof-316-french-frigate-hahn-version-20/page-27#entry244669  shows them in place.  They get stacked, glued together, shaped (close) and then into place on the hull... 
 
If there's no drawings, then do it Peter's way. Separation lines can always be scribed in.

Surprised myself and installed all that weirdly shaped bow frames in just 4 hours. 
 

 
Pretty weird looking gap between the last frame and the stem, looks like a broken tooth. But it is not a mistake, there are only 40 frames in the jig. Need few more to cover the gap.
 
This is how Peter (Mr. Hollom) solved that problem in his build:

 
But I am not sure if it will look good (especially since I will have no wales or planks on one side), and will try to insert one more frame in the middle of that gap or maybe glue it directly to the stem.
 
One of the Hahn's drawings actually show two extra frames, that are not present on a framing plan / jig plan / frame plans. That extra frames are glued to the stem and to each other. Hmmm....

Will try different options to end up with the most even spacing. 
I truly wonder why Hahn omitted one (or two) extra frames, would make life so much easier. 

Druxey, thanks for the note. Hahn framing is quite different in that area, he do not show hawse timbers. It is quite different from a real framing, descibed in TFFM. Simplified for aesthetics
Adding just two hawse timbers will look weird, so will try to follow the same style - probably will add one skewed frame, like the most forward frame on the hull right now.

Surprised myself and installed all that weirdly shaped bow frames in just 4 hours. 
 

 
Pretty weird looking gap between the last frame and the stem, looks like a broken tooth. But it is not a mistake, there are only 40 frames in the jig. Need few more to cover the gap.
 
This is how Peter (Mr. Hollom) solved that problem in his build:

 
But I am not sure if it will look good (especially since I will have no wales or planks on one side), and will try to insert one more frame in the middle of that gap or maybe glue it directly to the stem.
 
One of the Hahn's drawings actually show two extra frames, that are not present on a framing plan / jig plan / frame plans. That extra frames are glued to the stem and to each other. Hmmm....

Will try different options to end up with the most even spacing. 
I truly wonder why Hahn omitted one (or two) extra frames, would make life so much easier. 

Druxey, thanks for the note. Hahn framing is quite different in that area, he do not show hawse timbers. It is quite different from a real framing, descibed in TFFM. Simplified for aesthetics
Adding just two hawse timbers will look weird, so will try to follow the same style - probably will add one skewed frame, like the most forward frame on the hull right now.

Surprised myself and installed all that weirdly shaped bow frames in just 4 hours. 
 

 
Pretty weird looking gap between the last frame and the stem, looks like a broken tooth. But it is not a mistake, there are only 40 frames in the jig. Need few more to cover the gap.
 
This is how Peter (Mr. Hollom) solved that problem in his build:

 
But I am not sure if it will look good (especially since I will have no wales or planks on one side), and will try to insert one more frame in the middle of that gap or maybe glue it directly to the stem.
 
One of the Hahn's drawings actually show two extra frames, that are not present on a framing plan / jig plan / frame plans. That extra frames are glued to the stem and to each other. Hmmm....

Will try different options to end up with the most even spacing. 
I truly wonder why Hahn omitted one (or two) extra frames, would make life so much easier. 

Space is not a big deal, but time..
Hope you will have enough patience, once most frames are installed - it starts to look like a ship, and that is such a pleasure!

Surprised myself and installed all that weirdly shaped bow frames in just 4 hours. 
 

 
Pretty weird looking gap between the last frame and the stem, looks like a broken tooth. But it is not a mistake, there are only 40 frames in the jig. Need few more to cover the gap.
 
This is how Peter (Mr. Hollom) solved that problem in his build:

 
But I am not sure if it will look good (especially since I will have no wales or planks on one side), and will try to insert one more frame in the middle of that gap or maybe glue it directly to the stem.
 
One of the Hahn's drawings actually show two extra frames, that are not present on a framing plan / jig plan / frame plans. That extra frames are glued to the stem and to each other. Hmmm....

Will try different options to end up with the most even spacing. 
I truly wonder why Hahn omitted one (or two) extra frames, would make life so much easier.