glbarlow

OK, it has been a good while since I did a proper update to this thread, but I have been really busy. As said, I had to sort out Flirt, getting this ready for release, which is imminent, just waiting for manuals and plans.
 
However, whilst Jim was helping me by building the Flirt prototype and taking the pictures, I was (and still am) busy working on my sixth development. I thought this would be a release for next year, but thanks to Jim's help, and me being furloughed, I now aim for a Winter 2020 release for my last kit in the small/medium size range.
 
This is part of my original choices when deciding what to develop when first starting out. I only have one plan set showing hull lines and bulkheads, together with decoration detail. Despite there only being this one plan, I felt compelled to turn this into a kit, and the 'balance' seems spot on between hull lines and decoration. I have called the model 'Duchess of Kingston', as it was built for her by JM Hillhouse of Bristol, probably in the late 1770's or very early 1780's.
 
I have tried to emulate as much detail shown on the plans without too much deviation, and also added a little extra, the upper deck rails being one. It has been a very long design process for such a seemingly simple model, and many things have changed on the way, but the basic hull assembly never changed. I have now designed it so than all areas at deck level and above, both inner and outer, are all pre-cut. This have added much to the parts and materials, but feel it cancels out any ambiguity of port or window opening placements. I decided to maser cut the upper rails as one pieces, as there are so many intersecting parts, making misalignment mistakes a real danger. I have cancelled this out, I hope, completely.
 
Material quantities are very high (6 sheets of 1mm pearwood alone), but I do not care, I am now happy with the designs, and I am happy (if a little nervous) to show you the result of these designs. The quarterdeck companion does have a spiral staircase, which you cannot really see from the pics.
 
The model hull is about 90% complete, and still requires more touching up, adding of parts (windlass is dry fitted for pics and deadeyes/strops not yet fitted) and final varnishing. It has a cast resin figurehead and stern decoration, along with new windlass and canopy for the door. It is 64th scale and size wise, it is virtually the same as Speedy, with a hull length of around 450mm.
 
I will add pics of the laser and PE materials, so you can see just how much is pre cut. I hope you like...

I am unsure of the history, I just knew I wanted to do it when I looked over the plans. Druxey did find something out, and I have a feeling the vessel is the same as what is referred to in this passage from a Wikipedia page:
 
"Duchess of Kingston
 
She lived for a time in Calais, and became mistress to Stefano Zannowich. 1777, after her acceptance by Russian royalty, the two had a boat built then made a spectacular entrance sailing into Kronstadt, the port of Saint Petersburg. In the Governorate of Estonia, she bought 3 properties: Toila, Orro, and Fockenhoff, consolidating them into an estate she named "Chudleigh". She planned to create a 'model Brit estate', imported spaniels and pointers and a collection of plants. She lived there in a clifftop house with a view of the Baltic Sea." 

Very nice. What is the history of a ship like this. Very different (and interesting) from warships (and most common models) as gun platforms with 6 cannon and more space dedicated to what I guess are cabins?

Hi Stuglo
 
I wouldn't use the rotating table in the vertical mode to mill anything more than a centimetre or two in length for the reason you state. I tend to use it in the vertical position to do things like these columns. I turned them on a lathe, but then used the dividing head to mill the grooves to give a fluted effect. Basically, you lock the table in place, mill the first groove, then rotate the workpiece a set number of degrees ( for example 60 degrees if you want six grooves) and repeat. Most of the other elements of this boat support were made on the mill. I should point out that I eventually replaced the overscale belaying pins!
 
It's difficult to see on this photo, but I also used the dividing head to mill the slots for the spiral steps just visible on the right. Similar principle.
 
Derek
 

August 2019_0034_edited-1.xmp

Many thanks for the above lesson. I bought my Proxxon less than a year ago, but the learning curve (by myself) is slow. Other illustrated tips would be very welcome. Meanwhile, another problem. When using this head vertically, that is the piece is horizontal, even minimal pressure from the milling bit causes the piece to "dip" and results in an oval rather than a round effect. I could use a lathe but I have a very crude one and  milling a rotating part can be useful. I thought to support the free end but can't think how. Any help appreciated.

Glenn
 
Making what you call mast caps with the mill worked very well for me, using the technique No Idea described. Here's a couple I made for Royal Caroline (not very good pictures, I'm afraid). I'll see if I can put some pictures together to illustrate the method more clearly.
 
Derek
 

Glenn,
I think there may be some misunderstanding of what you call a mast cap.  You mention it is on the deck.  The mast cap is at the top of the mast, and is usually rectangular with rounded corners, has a square hole for the lower mast top and a round hole for the lower part of the mast above it to pass through.   It sounds like you are looking to make a ring instead of a ring of wedges at the mast partners where the mast passes between the deck beams, or in POB, between bulkheads.   Can you post a sketch and confirm this is for your current build for Cheerful.  Below is a sketch showing the top of a mast and the mast cap.    If you are looking to make a ring,  a lathe might  be easier than using the milling machine. 
Allan
 

Here’s another example to help you though this time the head is in the horizontal position. I’m milling the cap for a bow bollard and I also cut a shallow rebate in it too.  Have the cutter at high speed and take lots of shallow cuts. After I had cut the correct diameter I then set the head vertically and milled the correct thickness. 

This is great Derek and exactly what I was looking for. Just something to learn a bit about the mill and I will eventually need this ring for Cheerful. Thank you for taking the time to detail it out. 
 
I understand about the dust, I ripped three sheets of planking strips, about 40-50 last, night.  Lots of dust.

I'm sure there are lots of opinions. Personally I've never cleaned the char from those. The glue will hold with the char there, it's somewhat a myth that it won't. I'd be more concerned about altering the fit if I sanded the bulkheads where they fit to the frame. You really want a tight fit. Sometimes you might have to sand a little to get that fit, but not to remove the char.

He hasn’t faired the hull yet, I imagine most of it will disappear then. 

He hasn’t faired the hull yet, I imagine most of it will disappear then. 

Two additional comments on the above:
 
- rotate the rotary table always against the rotational direction of the mill ! These rotary tables are not actually meant for round-milling, but for indexing. If you rotate the table the other way around, the mill can grap the workpiece and wrench it from your hand. For this reason it is also advisable to let the locking knob slightly bind, so that there is a bit of frictional resistance. That helps to steady the movement.
And: do not try to do this kind of operation with metal ! Real rotary table built for round-milling have a self-locking worm-drive.
 
- I would make the first cut a bit wider (on the outside) and narrower (on the inside) and go for second, finishing pass.

Here goes. I'm making a 14mm wide ring for an 8mm mast.
 
It's an idea to make sure the dividing table and the mill are reasonably centered. I use two pointy things and eyeball them from different angles until they look lined up.
 
 
 
Once that's done you won't touch the Y axis again. Zero the X axis by holding the wheel fixed (so the table doesn't move) with your right hand whilst rotating the numbered dial until it is set at '0'.
 

 
Prepare a piece of dowel. It needs to be wide enough diameter for the sheet material to sit firmly on it, and long enough for it to be gripped well by the table. This piece is 10mm X 30mm. Also make sure the end is cut flat and square - not a problem on your Byrne's saw!
 

 
Next get your sheet wood. It doesn't matter what size and shape it is so long as you can get your required diameter out of it, and of course it needs to be thick enough. I'm using a small scrap of pear - it's too thick but that'll be sorted on the mill. Just stick the dowel to the sheet with a blob of ca.
 

 
Next, put the dowel in the table and lock the jaws. Remember to leave a gap between the sheet of pear and the jaws - you don't want to end up milling your table!
 

 
I'm using a 3mm cutter here. I'm going to cut the outside of the ring first, and because my mill is at the centre at I need to move it 8.5mm before I can start, because 8.5 = the radius of the ring (7mm) plus half the diameter of the cutter. That puts the cutter just outside the required circle. So, that's 8 1/2 turns of the wheel on the X axis. 
 

 
To start cutting, unlock the table (using the little black knob on the front), switch on the mill and lower the cutter. I find it best to take 2 or 3 cuts rather than trying to do the whole thickness in one go. Now that the table is unlocked you can just rotate it carefully by hand:
 

 
I normally use both hand to rotate the table evenly but I needed one for the camera for this shot.
 
You'll know when you're right through as the outside piece will spin free - at that point stop the machine and break the scrap off.
 

 
I didn't film the next bit, but all I did was raise the cutter, move it back in 3mm, and lower it again to thin the ring down to the thickness I wanted. 
 
The final milling operation is to cut the inner hole. If you've followed the measurements so far, you'll see that in order to get the 8mm hole the cutter has to move back in another 3mm. It's then just a case of milling down just like you did for the outside diameter. In this example I knew when I'd got through because the sawdust changed colour - I'd hit the dowel!
 

 
Btw - this work creates a lot of dust - I really should have sorted out my dust extraction before I started. Please don't follow my example! 
 
I wasn't going to bother for this sample piece, but as the ring was still stuck to the dowel I decided to chuck it in the lathe (a drill would work equally well) to sand a slightly rounded profile.
 

 
Finally, I parted it off in the Byrne's saw and here it is:
 

 
 
I can assure you, it took a lot longer to photograph and describe this than to actually do it. 
 
I hope this helps - it would certainly be a good exercise to help you get familiar with your new machine.
 
Derek 

I’ve built a number of models but taking on Cheerful is a new challenge. Before I started there were a number of tasks that were concerning for me. From port sills, thinning stern and bulkhead frames, square tucks to scarph joints, there are lots of things I’ve never attempted despite having built eight kits. On top of that list was single planking a hull that will be left natural (other than poly). No place to hide major mistakes and not much way to hide small ones. I’ve now finished the upper belt of the port side and thought I’d share what I did and what I learned.
 
@Chuck, as I’ve noted throughout this log, provides great instruction in his monograph. However, reading and doing are two different things. The first critical planking step happened months ago, fairing the hull. Taking the time to do that right back in the beginning now pays off.
 

 
Now its time to divide the hull into two belts. This keeps the measurements accurate and planking consistency more manageable. It starts by measuring from bulkhead zero (midships) the distance of 8 full planks (using the planking fan), since the known is full width planks at the center - that’s the first attachment point for the tape, then it’s connecting that to the stern and bow.
 
I struggled with this simple step of adding the artist tape (perfect for this job) to create the belts. I applied and re-applied tape until it wouldn’t stick and then did it again with more tape. I was being too analytical in how I was approaching positioning the tape. It wasn’t until I got some (more) sage advice from @Chuck I understood to step back and look at it straight on from the side and find the graceful curve (it’s there, let it come to me…be the hull…) and flow from bow to stern. And I mean from the side straight on. When you tilt the hull up to apply the tape it presents a false look of the tape flow, at least to my eyeballs - the curve doesn’t present itself until you lean back and look directly from the side at the balanced hull. Having found the curve, I marked lines on each bulkhead and threw away the tape I’d spent so much time moving around. The marks define how those 8 planks will fit the length of the ship and where and how much tapering I’ll do to make it fit, obviously thinner at the bow.
 

 
Then it’s time to line the hull. Chuck has .pdfs and videos here on the forum so I won’t go in to detail, I can’t begin to explain it as well as he can. I will say making tick strips and using the planking fan is precise and tedious work, but it’s time well spent and essential to success. It takes the guesswork out of planking.
 
Another key to these tick marks is not only the width at the bow but as important where to start the taper. In the case of Cheerful that was bulkhead 6. I kept the same starting point for all eight planks which turned the curve I created with the tape into a wooden reality.
 
-2552
 
Here I have a plank tapered and angled properly to fit the rabbit. Transferring those tick strips to each bulkhead and then to planks is how you get to consistent. The most critical of course is the bow - determining how wide strips need to be for 8 to fit within the tape mark. Often its also true of the stern, but the lining process (and Chuck’s monograph) noted for Cheerful this first belt from mid-ship to the square tuck it is full width planks. The other nice thing about these tick marks is the reassurance as I planked I was still on plan, still I double checked the measurement at the bow every other plank. I did have to make a few minor adjustments due to less than perfect tapering.
 

 
 

 
Then it’s on to my bending station. Again @Chuck monograph, .pdfs, and videos explain this. I can only add that in my view there is no better way to achieve a tight fit. No soaking, just a wipe of water across the plank with my wet finger and then a hot iron. It’s surprising just how much the wood can bend. It’s counter-intuitive but I bent the plank down in order for it to curve up on the bow. Then when that’s done bend it again to follow the inward curve. The wood can take it, just go slow and careful. Multiple times I bent the wood more than once (I only snapped one) to get a fit. It should almost lay into the bulkheads on its own.
 

 
I am also following the planking plan for proper lengths and pattern (rather than running one plank for the full length of the hull). I first added some edit marks to the plan (hard to see with those skinny lines) then transferred that to hash marks on the hull to maintain (well, actually not forget) the pattern. Another note: The plan is a two dimensional view of a three dimensional hull, don’t be deceived by the plank widths shown on the plan, that’s obvious when you think about it. Visually I was initially thinking I can take the width shown on the plan, nope. It works above the wales but not below.
 
I will own up to one cheat. For the short joints near the bow I scored a joint line on a longer plank that reached the second joint end nearer mid-ships. Tapering, bending, and fitting a single plank at the bow is hard enough, getting a match with a short plank was more than I wanted to do. Hence my joints at a the bow are perfect…because its the same plank.
 

 
Here's an example of how tilting the hull up may throw off my look at the curve. It may seem wobbly, it isn't. It's sort of an optical illusion because of the multiple curves at play, I had to ignore this and trust the tick marks. 
 
 I spent a long time on each individual plank, way more than any plank on any ship I’ve built before. I can’t make it up with paint or on a second planking. Here’s a little fun fact; different planks that measures 3/64ths on my digital caliper can measure between 1.18mm and 1.31mm. That’s not much, but it makes a difference on getting a smooth fit between planks. So now I measure the thickness on every plank in millimeters even though I cut them in imperial, its that or sand it out later. And I’m learning to do a better job with ripping planks.
 

 
After tapering, each plank is first beveled along the top edge and also slightly at each end, especially at the rabbet. This is a time consuming but important step for me to get a tight fit. The stern, due to the big curve from side to bottom (great use of nautical terms) is particularly challenging to get the right bevel and the right bends (more of a twist than a bend actually). It’s tempting to force it, it’s better to take the time.
 
I should be clear here. There are eight rows of planks in this belt. I probably made at least 14, tossing away almost as many as I fit. It’s another example that if my ship had three sides my third side would look great, I learn as I go.
 

 
Then it’s gluing them on. I placed CA with my thin applicator on no more than 2-3 bulkheads at a time and finger clamp the plank down and up for 20-40 seconds. That of course means as I moved along the plank would be too close to the bulkhead to use the applicator. I’m big fan of dental tools - here’s one I use to slip CA under the plank. I don’t glue the top edge. The bevel is how I get the fit, not edge glue.
 

 
While the tick marks confirmed I was on the right track, it was nonetheless nice to see the 8th and final plank fit at the stern right where it’s supposed to be as part of the eventual square tuck. I left them all a little long at the stern to give me some latitude when I get to the square tuck. I’d already had to make adjustments to the square tuck by sanding the triangle base down (again with advice from Chuck) to provide the 1/8th inch depth between it and the counter for the square tuck. After all that I repainted the wales, they got a bit banged up.
 

 
And I got to here following a light coat of poly (which isn’t fully dried and buffed yet in these photos) In addition to other things the poly brings out the seams and joints between the boards in a nice way. 
 

 
I didn’t get a perfectly tight fit in the rabbit, so I helped myself by putting the slightest amount of super phatic glue with a toothpick (it dries clear) then added some sawdust taken from beneath my saw and packed it in at the rabbet. After light scraping (another dental tool) and sanding to remove the excess glue, with the poly added it now looks fine.
 

 
I’m happy with the curve of the stern, though maybe it’s a little flat. As I’ve noted earlier the initial fairing is critical, but I did over-sand the final bulk head. Layering a 1/64th strip (that’s all it took) on between bulkhead and planks created a smoother run. It took work, especially on beveling, to get a tight fit together with a tight twist that would have been very difficult without my handy travel iron.
 
It’s not perfect - it has flaws, I mean character, but I can’t see through it so there’s that. I like the slightly different colors of wood that comes from following the planking pattern, just more character.
 
I have 24 more planks to go to finish the hull so everything can still fall apart. But at least I’ve proven to myself that I can more or less single plank a ship - with the help of Chuck’s monograph, the process of lining the hull and bending planks, and a lot of time and patience  (and possibly a supplemental wood order).
 
So as it turns out, I can get there from here.
 

Wikipedia is your friend. "A thousand words is worth a picture." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandrel
 

There are lots of different types of mandrels. What I was talking about was simply a stick mounted between lathe centers, or even held vertically in a drill press chuck. The diameter of the stick would be the same as the inside diameter of the "ring" or hoop you wanted. Once the plane shavings are wrapped around the stick with glue and dry, they make tiny little laminated wood rings, like plywood. You spin the stick and sand the wrapped and glued shavings smooth, then cut them apart to the width you want using a jeweler's saw with the blade pressed against the spinning "stick" to cut a perfect circle around the glued shavings to separate the "rings" or hoops from the larger glued shavings rings on the stick. They you slide the rings off the stick. Make sense?
 
It was in response to a post about making mast hoops, A "mast cap" is the little "button" at the very top of a mast. A mast "boot" is a canvas or leather "skirt" lashed at the top around the mast and at the bottom around a trim ring at the deck which prevents water from running down the mast and leaking below. 
 
"A little more ornate mast cap at the base of the mast on the deck" would apparently refer to the trim ring over which the mast boot was lashed, so there wouldn't be a lot of point to an "ornate one."  Sometimes, however, the rings have a groove or recessed band around their circumference to permit the lashing to hold better.
 
If you want an easy way to make one, I'd suggest you take a suitably sized square block of wood with the grain running lengthwise and drill a hole the size of the hole you want in the middle of the ring into the middle of the block of wood. then, since you don't have a four jawed chuck, mount the block of wood on your three jawed chuck with the jaws inside the hole you've drilled in the block. Then turn the block to the outside diameter of the entire ring you want, and part off the thickness of the ring you want. If you want it "ornate," you can easily shape the outside edge of the ring however you want before parting it off the block/tube you've got mounted on your chuck. Drill the hole in the center deep enough and you can cut a number of perfectly matching rings from the "tube" you've made. This is entirely a lathe operation, but I think it's a lot faster and easier, and perhaps safer, than doing  the job with a mill and certainly requires less expensive tooling. 
 
"Anyone have an example or a source/reference I can look to?" "These all sound like nice ideas, but I’m not sure I follow the narrative description."  As with most things technical, nomenclature is important. Maritime nomenclature is further complicated by the different names for the same things in different languages, and even in different nations with the same language. (As with an automobile "trunk" and "hood" in American English which are called the "boot" and "bonnet" in British English.) Like any language, you have to spend time around people who speak it in order to learn it. It's true with machining, too. A "chuck" isn't a "holder" and "parting" is cutting off a machined piece from a larger hunk of metal spinning in a lathe. It's quite difficult to write instructions for how to make something when the writer and the reader are using different terms for what is being made and how it is being made! You will find your mill (and lathe, even more so) an amazingly handy machine once you learn how to use it properly.
 
There are many good instructional books and videos available.  Here are the public-domain U.S. Army training manuals for lathes and mills. I'd suggest you print them out and put them in a binder for reference. They're very handy and nobody teaches people without any prior knowledge how to do things better than the military.  Here's the manual on lathes:  https://www.americanmachinetools.com/how_to_use_a_lathe.htm  Here's the one on milling machines: https://www.americanmachinetools.com/how_to_use_a_milling_machine.htm  These address large machines, but the principles and procedures are the same for machines of any size.
 
Another wonderful resource are the YouTube videos by a fellow who calls himself "Tubalcain" or "Mr.Pete222." He's a retired metal shop teacher who has continued teaching on YouTube. His practical instruction is great and his presentation is entertaining. He's got hundreds of videos on everything under the sun to do with the old-time machinists' craft.
 
I'd offer a word of caution. Even though modelers work with small lathes and mills, these are two of the more dangerous machines in any shop. (The lathe is probably the most dangerous machine tool of all. Table saws account for more visits to the emergency room, but only because there are so many more of them in amateur hands.) If you aren't formally trained in machine shop operational safety, pay particular attention to the safety warnings in the written materials before trying anything on the machines. Rule number one, for drill presses, mills, and lathes: Never, ever, leave a chuck key in a chuck. Make it a habit to keep chuck keys in a separate place and when taken from that place, never let them leave your hand unless you are putting them back in their place. (A flying chuck key is a dangerous missile. ) Rule number two: Always turn the machine or work piece by hand an entire revolution before turning the power on to make sure all work is securely mounted and there are no clearance obstructions. Rule number three: Make sure you have no long sleeves, neck ties or chains, or jewelry of any kind on. (These can become caught up in moving machine parts with catastrophic consequences.) These aren't the sum total of safety rules for machine tools, but they are the ones I've was yelled at the most about before I learned them well! 
 
 
 
 

I’m looking to create a little more ornate mast cap at the base of the mast on the deck.
 
These all sound like nice ideas, but I’m not sure I follow the narrative description. 

I think I need pictures...

I think I need pictures...

Bob
 
Perhaps mast hoops wasn’t the best example I could have cited for the technique - your’s is clearly better. Nevertheless it works. No Idea’s example is more appropriate. The method works well for most situations where you need to mill a circle or part 
thereof. 

I think the discussion is diverging somewhat from the original topic.
 
In this building log below (no idea, why it shows a Christmas motif ...) I go through a wide variety of milling set-ups, albeit on different small mills.
 

This method works really well with the Proxxon dividing head. For example to create wooden rings for mast hoops or whatever, I superglue a piece of sheet material of the required thickness and size to a dowel (the sheet can be any shape so long as you can get the required outside diameter out of it). Once clamped in the dividing head you mill to the outside diameter then the inside and hey presto you've got a ring. If the outside of the ring needs to be chamfered you can do that before milling the inside diameter.
 
If you're talking about the standard Proxxon vices I would agree. However the  precision machine vices are more than adequate for milling purposes. This is the PM40:
 

 
Derek

This can be done quite easily with the dividing head that you have.  You can turn it by hand once the job is locked into the vice just mind your fingers.  If the piece you want to cut is not round, glue it to a piece of round dowelling to mount it onto the dividing head.  Once you have finished machining cut it away from the dowel and clean it up.

OK. The clamping is a bit complicated by the fact that you presumably will have a rectangular part, but you have 3-jaw-chuck. It would be possible, but is not so simple.
 
I don't know, whether the 3-jaw-chuck in the dividing head can be changed for one of the independent 4-jaw-chucks PROXXON offers, if I am not mistaken. That would be a better starting point.
 
However, I think using a simple vice would be a lot easier. If you don't have one yet, get yourself what is called a 1" 'toolmaker insert vice':
 

Image from: https://bahrain.desertcart.com/products/58940869-accusize-tools-mini-precision-toolmakers-insert-vises-ga-41-0050
 
They are very good and more precise than the PROXXON vices. They should cost around 30  USD on ebay etc.
 
You would cut a piece of wood that is a bit larger than the cap, but considerably longer, so that you have a sort of 'stem'. In the first step you would mill the four sides, while the part is clamped with the stem. For this you don't need to move the part, all movements are done with the slides. In the next step you drill down whatever holes are required - square holes can be finished with a fine file later. In the third step you turn the part in the vice on its side, so that the top of the cap protrudes sideways, which allows you to mill its profile. For this you will have to make yourself a chart for the necessary movements of the slides. Finally you saw off the cap from its stem.

I’ll definitely be watching this and enjoy building it vicariously. No way am I interested in building something so large, but it will be fun watching you do it.