Thanasis

Happy New Year to Everyone!
 
Greetings to Bob especially; speaking from my room 😁, I have to query the truth of the brigantine ID for the second vessel. A brigantine has a fully square-rigged foremast, and the after, or main mast, is taller than the foremast, which this one is not. I agree that there does seem to be a foresail furled tight in the centre of the lower yard, which would make it not a topsail schooner; but only two square sails on a whole mast is rather too few to constitute a full set of square sails, I would say. This could be a cut-down version of a larger rig, forced on the captain by lack of money in the final years of sail, and not quite conforming to any set definition. It almost looks like a cutter-rig with a mizen mast added.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Dear all happy New Year and thank you for participating this puzzle.
As most of you I can recognize typical ships' riggings and name the type of sails. I do can see Schooner types with something less or more (topsail-staysail...) but what I'm looking fore is how I could call them in a conversation or in writing. That's why I quest for a "proper name".
For the history these types of vessels-rigging were shown in North Aegean Sea at early of 20th century and I would define their origin mainly as Ottoman.
As about the third photo for which there is much thinking and being a bit familiar, I see an older or "Ottoman" version  of a "penna rigging" (yelkenli çektirme in Turkish) (Bermuda rig).
I call it "Ottoman" version since to my knowledge there was also a newer or "Greek" version (mostly was used by Greeks) where the triangular sail (penna) is attached on the mast, instead of on an additional spar. But here, we might have  a third version…More info information might be retrieved from the sketches of an ANZAC Soldier in Lemnos Island…) 
See photos

 

 
So, I know it's difficult to guess what those sailors were thinking, nor to find the original name of the rigs, but I'm trying to give at least a "short" explanatory name.
Thx

I agree with Bob. His naming is about as good as you can get for these rigs.
 
The second rig is similar to a hermaphrodite brig (also called a brigantine), but doesn't appear to have a full square sail rig on the fore mast as brigs as brigantines are supposed to have. Also, every picture I have seen (and most definitions) of brigantines has had the main mast as tall as or taller than the fore mast.
 
Ketches are two masted vessels with the mizzen (after) mast positioned ahead of the rudder/tiller and shorter than the main (fore) mast, as in the second rig, but the main mast is usually rigged fore and aft with a gaff sail, and no square topsail. Without the topsail on the main mast our second rig might be called a "staysail ketch" but I have never seen that term used. Topsail ketch?
 
The third rig is strange. I'd call it a "mule" as it appears to be a cross between a schooner and a dhow or felucca. Let's hope it too is sterile and cannot reproduce!
 
The sail rig on the Thames barge is called a spritsail.

The first is a staysail schooner with a boomed foresail, flying a fisherman topsail.
 
The second is a brigantine.
 
The third photograph isn't sufficiently clear to determine what we're looking at.  Unlike the other three photos, which are indisputable, this one's identity depends upon what's happening where the odd, long-sparred jib-headed sail meets the mast. Is it attached to the mast with gaff jaws, or is it crossing the mast as would a lateen antenna.  In the case of the former, it might be called gaff schooner with a weirdly long foresail gaff boom, and in the latter instance, a lateen-rigged ketch with a gaff-rigged mizzen. In the case of a lateen rig, it appears that the picture was taken while the foot of the mainsail antenna was being tacked from one side of the mast to the other. If the long boom is connected to the mast, it may have been a rig adaptation, similar to the arrangement seen on the Thames barges, which accommodated local fishing or cargo handling requirements.
 
The fourth is another staysail schooner.
 
The rest of you guys... That was pathetic. Go to your rooms!!!     
 
Thames barge:
 
 

The problem is that the naming conventions I know, is not realy compatible with these mediterranean ships....
I don't think  1 is qualifying as a schooner, as both sails between the masts are stay-sails, and a two-masted schooned has gaff-sails on both masts.
 
I have a book by Marquardt, he also covers these type of ships. Will have a look tomorrow.
 
Jan

No.1 Brigentine
No.2 Ketch
The last two I am not sure of. 
 

Good Evening Thanasis;
 
I am far from being an expert on small ships of this type, but I would say that no. 1 is a two-masted schooner, with a large main-topmast staysail; no. 2 is a two-masted topsail schooner (fond memories here: the second model I ever made, forty years ago now, was one of these) The third I am not sure about, although as she appears to be at anchor she is probably drying her sails, in which case it is just possible that the triangular mainsail is not actually triangular. It does appear to be some kind of triangular lug-sail, though. The fourth is also a two-masted schooner.
 
If anyone knows a specific name for these rigs, I would love to hear it as well.
 
All the best,
 
Mark P

Happy New Year to all.
Could someone identify or at least give a proper name in these rigs...
Many thanks

 

 

 

 
 

Happy New Year to all.
Could someone identify or at least give a proper name in these rigs...
Many thanks

 

 

 

 
 

My golden rule when I have to build many same items, is to be innovative and creative
avoiding working on one of those at a time. 
Thx

Hi. I used to  build ships in bottles many years before. 
 So once, I accepted the challenge to built a ship in a vertical bottle and because I was young and impatient, the result came up rather poor.
But  allow me to say these.
The method is the same as in a horizontal bottle, although you had to transform a bit your tools. And  you are not "pulling the string straight up"...
Back then, all of my strings were either "dead" (no pieces to pull outside the bottle) or there were only a few, that were going in holes in the bowsprit from above and were coming out from beneath. 
So after they were glued, I had to "push the strings down"  before to cut them. For this I was using an ombrela's rib properly shaped, keeping each string down while I was cutting it with another tool.
Last advice, the old one. Choosing the bottle make the test and try to read a piece of news paper through the glass. If you can read the most of it, the bottle passes the test, otherwise it will hide your work.
Thank you

My golden rule when I have to build many same items, is to be innovative and creative
avoiding working on one of those at a time. 
Thx

With the completion of the oars and the stand, we're all done!  More photos on the completed scratch-built page...
 
 

So very, very true! The older we get, the more we realize how easily history, ours or the culture's, is lost. 

Thanks for the link, Thanasis. If the two types of mainsails were contemporaneous, this might be a good solution. However, the differences of the sailing eras, their shapes, and construction suggest that another term might be appropriate.
 
Even Bob's suggestion is problematic, though appreciated. The definition of "jib-headed," according to several contemporary dictionaries, is essentially "a point at the top of the sail, like a jib." The short spar at the head of Galilee's mainsail (as well as Matthew Turner's) doesn't leave a point with a single attachment fitting, like an eye or thimble. The short spar evidently spreads out the significant local stresses. The mainsail generated huge stresses, demonstrated in the fact that her main boom broke during her first charter cruise.
So, lacking any authoritative reference from Matthew Turner's time, I'm inclined to describe it as a "spar-headed mainsail."
 
Thanks for your input, guys!
 
Terry
 

Ah, this explanation makes more sense. I was viewing the term "triangular sail" in a much narrower way than necessary. And I probably gave the spreader/batten or whatever we can call it more significance than needed.
 
Appreciate the clear and complete clarification, Bob.
 
Terry

Call it what you will, but the two types of mainsails were very much contemporaneous for hundreds of years before Turner designed Galilee. A jib-headed sail has an essentially triangular shape and a "pointy" head with a single halyard. A gaff-headed sail has four corners with two halyards, a throat halyard which hoists the throat of the gaff boom and a peak halyard which hoists the end of the gaff boom. Galilee definitely has "a single attachment fitting." It's the bridle or saddle running on the short bridle at the head of the sail with the fall of the mail halyard attached. The "stick" which holds the two ends of the bridle apart when under tension, isn't a "yard," which crosses a mast, nor a "boom," which has sheets that control a sail. If named for its function, it is clearly a "spreader" or a "batten." I would called it a "head batten," in the same way it's modern equivalent is called a "head board." Galilee has but one main halyard. Her sail is triangular shaped. It's indisputably a "jib-headed" mainsail.
 
The purpose of the spreader and bridle is the same as the purpose of the main halyard crane: to provide a fair lead of tension from the halyard crane to the mainsail without the halyard fall (bottom) block being pulled toward the mast and chaffing, thereby interfering with the operation of the main halyard tackle. The bridle spread by the "stick" on Galilee's main is the contemporary equivalent of of a "headboard" on a modern jib-headed mainsail.
 
The "stick" between the bridle ends is under a compression load created by the weight of the mainsail (and perhaps the main boom, depending upon whether it were fastened to the mast with a gooseneck or boom jaws.) That load is not particularly related in any way to the loads generated by the wind on the sail. Those wind loads are transferred to the sheets and create a compression load on the main boom far greater than the load created by the weight of the sail and boom, which contribute nothing to the load on the main boom. A properly designed main boom would not likely break under the load of any wind on the mainsail. (As the wind blows against a sail, the vessel heels, thereby proportionately reducing the pressure on the rig by reducing the amount of area directly exposed to the wind as the angle of heel increases.) However, an uncontrolled jibe would create a shock load when the boom fetched up against the mainsheet on the opposite tack which could cause a fracture as pictured above. To prevent such damage, many contemporary vessels of Galilee's size employed a patent "shock absorbing" mainsheet horse which I believe Galilee had, but which, apparently, was not up to the task in the instance pictured.
 
 
Gaff-rigged main showing use of halyard crane with tackle attached to the gaff boom throat, causing throat halyard to run free of the mast.
 
 

 
Gaff boom bridle saddle on bridle with halyard fall block attached:
 

 
Modern mainsail headboard:
 

Hi. It could be also called as "square-top, or fat-head, mainsail"
https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/know-how-all-about-mainsails
Thx

No words...  
Thx

Hi. It could be also called as "square-top, or fat-head, mainsail"
https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/know-how-all-about-mainsails
Thx

Hi. It could be also called as "square-top, or fat-head, mainsail"
https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/know-how-all-about-mainsails
Thx

Hi. It could be also called as "square-top, or fat-head, mainsail"
https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/know-how-all-about-mainsails
Thx

No words...  
Thx

The rake of the masts in Amati's plans seems to be correct, so I copied it for my build.
 
Then I started shaping the masts out of Ramin wood:




 
 

Well, in fact there is a way to correct a mistake and remember it without feeling bad...Change its  artistic presence....
Thx
https://modelshipworld.com/topic/4157-my-greek-state-of-mind/?tab=comments#comment-118069