CaptainSteve

Hey, Captain, welcome back.
 
You know, I'm learning some real techniques with this grotesque little thing -- possibly far more than a regular straightforward kit might have offered. Every cloud has a silver lining and all that. For instance AL's wonderful mushroom -head nails are best quietly removed before you need to file them off with a 9 inch bastard file.
 
There'll be pics of the thing with its 200 foot mast. Tomorrow. But unfortunately no AL .pdf excerpts for my angrified critique-- they pulled the lot during their website facelift -- copyright infringement isn't something we want to invite.
 
Nika
 
 
 
 

You'll be needing a tiny, tiny vacuum cleaner next, Patrick.
(Or a tiny, French maid)

 

Forge onwards, Niki. I believe that you can still turn this into a very acceptable little boat.

Plans, you say ??? What a concept !!

Hello Chris,
 
Congratulations on getting the first kit done and on sale! The Alert looks like a really beautiful kit.
 
I was reporting on its release in our club newsletter when I realized that there is no description of the kit contents on your product site. That would be very useful for those who aren't on MSW, or just for those who don't want to dig around to find the info.
 
You know, something like, kit contains X laser cut sheets of high quality birch plywood, boxwood strips for planking the hull, large sheet of P.E. parts... all that marketing stuff. It's helpful to know, though most of us on MSW already know you and your work and I'm pretty sure would buy your products sight unseen – myself included!
 

Hello all,
I began this build about a year ago.  I took several pictures during the progress of the build.  Although it was not a true "log", it will show how it came along.  I started a log on "another" website, and got very little interest, so I gave up.
Recently I was looking at some of the ship builds here, and found CDW's Mikasa Log.  He inspired me to continue on my Mikasa with his very detailed log. He was very helpful with some rigging tips and I posted some of my own rigging attempts. I figured I was hijacking his build log, so this is why I'm doing this.
I hope you all enjoy what I've come up with.  I decided NOT to paint the PE. I have built several kits with PE, and those that I painted, lost all the detail, all the wonderful, beautiful photo etch work that went on. The amount of work and incredible dedication that it takes to install this stuff, in my opinion, dims when it's painted. The pretty gold color of the brass is like jewelry. Even those that couldn't care less about a model ship, are drawn to it with "ooohs and ahhhs".
I also like to mess around with my own colors.  I just can't see making a bunch of gray ships that look like floating penitentiaries. So some might be highly offended by my interpretations. Sorry. Life's too short and I'm having fun.
So here we go...

It is true, yes, that many ships were reduced in armament.  And, certainly, for Soleil Royal there is a huge difference between her “notional” early rating of 120 guns, and the actual number she carried at any given time.  It seems pretty certain, though, that she was always equipped with a forecastle.  In any case, Chapman, I hope your experiments with La Reyne work out.  I would love to see that.
 
As for my gun experiments:
 
I am delighted with the mild ver-de-gris patina I have achieved over a very realistic dark bronze.  The patination does, in fact, pick up the extremely low-relief fleur-de-lis, and emblems that are cast into the barrels.  Pictures of this to follow.
 
I am much less delighted with my attempts to cast beefed-up versions of the middle battery, so that I could take the stock middle battery and place it on the upper main deck.  I can’t make these work, and there were many failed moulds that produced deformed castings:

So, I will abandon this casting experiment in favor of the infinitely more tedious process of placing inserts in every barrel blank and then fairing out the bores as concentrically as I can.
 
This morning I did a quick napkin sketch of the simplified quarter galleries that I am proposing:

Obviously, this is a terrible drawing, but such as it is - you can see a much less cluttered 3-2-1 window arrangement that is much more sensible, in my view.  So, after I get my lower hull painted, I will focus on doing a really good and fully detailed drawing of this QG, so that I can pattern them, and begin to shape them. 

Painting the port lids has been a process, but it has yielded some pretty good results:

I used a translucent red/brown wash from War Hammer to get into the creases and the lows of the gilded ornaments for better contrast.  The difference is subtle, but worthwhile:

Here are a few shots of them placed, to get a sense for what that will look like.  When it actually comes time to install them, I will make up lanyard rings:


While I was at my father’s, this past weekend, I picked up the gun barrels for the middle battery.  Previously, I was puzzled as to why I only had 24 out of what Should have been 32 lower battery guns - what Heller is designating as 24 pounders.
 
Well, it turns out that the kit researchers were also aware of the practice of a mixed armament on the lower deck; for the kit, the aft four guns on each broadside, as well as the four stern chase ports are designated for 18 pound guns.  The middle battery are all 18 pounders.
 
For the record, Heller’s classification and distribution of the armament is lighter, overall, than what the ship carried in reality; for example, the lower battery was a mixture of 36 and 24 pound guns, with - if I remember correctly - the majority being the lighter 24s.
 
This discrepancy between the model and the reality bolsters my decision to beef up the gun barrels from the lower deck, on up.
 
Right now, I am replicating the same process of adding an insert for 6 of the 18 pound guns;  I may leave all four of the stern chase ports empty, or I may arm the two closest to the rudder.  I haven’t yet decided.
 
I will take one 18 pound gun barrel,  and attempt to make castings for the entire middle battery.  For my casting blanks, one half will already have the insert glued and faired, in place.  To facilitate casting, I will cut away the dolphin “handles”, which wouldn’t be visible, anyway.  I had remained hopeful that maybe I saved the 24-pounders from my first build of this kit, but I couldn’t find them anywhere.  They must have been a casualty of several purges.
 
One thing that I have begun to ponder more seriously is what, exactly, I will do about the quarter galleries.  Although, I still think that the following drawing originated from the hand of Jean Berain, there are certain problems in its presentation that need to be resolved:

The biggest issue has to do with the five windows shown in the closed middle deck tier - the functional toilet of the officers’ quarters;  first of all, the windows taper down in size from aft, moving forward.  Second, of all, this profusion of glass (whether dummy windows or actual glass) clutters the design.  Thirdly, the diamond-hatch webbing does not correspond to their corollary on the stern.
 
Resolving these issues will necessitate sketching them out. I started to do this on the computer, a couple of years ago.  I managed to get the amortisement mostly done, before the software locked up:
So, I will sketch out the lower section of the QG by hand.
 
I have this idea that I can take cues from the following Berain scheme for the Formidable to help simplify and de-clutter my new quarter galleries.  The Formidable was an Etienne Hubac built ship from 1691, and as such, a very near contemporary of the re-built (also by E. Hubac) Soleil Royal:

There is nothing, in my view, about this scheme that seems out of place or proportion.  My main approach, here, would be to reduce the four primary windows down to three, with better spacing and more consistent scale.  This will also simplify all of the fleur-de-lis paneling, beneath that.  I may, also, eliminate the smallest fifth window, replacing it with a simple panel, and perhaps an appropriate ornament - the criss-crossed L monogram, for example.
 
My first attempt at making this lower section will probably involve carving the complex, faceted form from close-grained solid wood, to which will be added moulding and paneling and carvings.
 
I had tried to do some experiments with polymerized clay, but I’m a long ways off from Doris.  I at least understand how wood behaves and how to shape it.
 
In other research news, I have struck up a very interesting and informative correspondence with Montreal native Guy Maher.  Guy is another SR obsessive, like myself, who has assembled a really impressive body of research into Soleil Royal’s early appearance.
 
There is much that he and I agree on, but naturally we have our different views about certain things.  At the moment, I am reading through one of his primary sources:

Mr. Dessert is a modern historian with a particular interest in the life and times of Louis XIV, and the ministers of his empire.  He has a number of titles to his credit, concerning this epoch.  This book, so far, is an excellent overview of all of the individual strata of Human Resources that made Colbert’s navy possible.  There promise to be a few golden nuggets about SR that may corroborate or refute some of what I’ve presented here, so far.  Either way, I remain open to the possibilities.
 
One fascinating observation from Mr. Maher, so far, is that the following drawing of the head (which also clearly appears to be Berain’s hand) makes no allowance for the actual structure of the forecastle deck.  There is only a forward sheer railing, just over the main deck ports, but no additional “step” above them to include the structure of the forecastle deck:

I am almost absolutely certain this is Berain’s hand because on the French modeling site, where Michel Saunier primarily posts his SR build, Gerard Delacroix posted very clear close-ups of this drawing.  Their style of line and shade exactly matches that of the Berain stern drawing.
 
We know, absolutely, that SR always had a forecastle.  Are we to believe that Jean Berain “forgot” to include this detail?  As many times as I have looked at this drawing, I have never noticed this discrepancy.  But, there it is!  I have no theories or explanations for that one.
 
Tanneron did not forget to include this step-up to the forecastle deck:

As it was drawn, though, it would be as though the waist rail merely continued all the way to the headrails.  Perplexing!

Welcome to MSW from another Oregonian.    

Gidday Spike and another warm welcome from the Land Downunder.
Firstly, your comments re the level of knowledge and experience of the members is correct and I find  this level of expertise indeed amazing. 
Secondly, the "You can fix that", is also correct. If you cannot find a solution to something that is causing you grief, simply post a question and within a few days you will have differing perspectives and solutions provided. At the very least you will find a suggestion that will lead in the right direction.
As you note, patience is indeed avirtue.
I wish you all the best in your endeavours,
Mark.

This a great forum. I am very glad to be part of it.
 
I am new to wooden model ship building and I'm enjoying it. I come to historic ship model by way of the Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin saga, I don't think I'm the only one. Now in my seventh decade I have been a model builder much of my life beginning with plastic model spaceships and airplanes as a child and moving on to WWII and Cold War armored vehicles on and off after that. I'm also a developing woodwork I have obtained a few transferable skills. In ignorance of the sound advice from the Moderator I took on Artesiana Latina's L'Hermione as my first project. All I can say is that Chris is right, there's a steep learning curve and I only discovered this forum after much of the planking of that project was completed. My woodworking experience lead me to several solutions that were readily available in this forum. I am still enjoying the experience and about to move from the deck railing to the deck furniture. I have learned a lot about patience - generally in short supply - during this project. "Do overs" are definitely a part of my experience - as it is for many others. I think that this forum has provided two important lessons that will probably keep me off of Chris's last-time builders list. The first is that the amazing level of experience of the forum members and the willingness to share the triumphs and failures has given me the perspective I've needed as an apprentice builder. The second is that "you can fix that" is a part of the experience, for nearly everyone. I recently had to redo a household project and my wife was surprised by my somewhat Zen attitude. I told her that I owe it to my wooden ship building experiences and the advice of the many good people in this forum.

This may help a little - shows how the mizzen mast on the Frigate Constitution is stepped.
 

Hello Nicolas,
I don't know whether you intend to build Triton POF or POB but you can find all the info on masts and yards you need here:- Google  The elements and practice of rigging and seamanship. This takes you to the website of the San Francisco Maritime National Park Association which shows Steels book. Scroll down to page 50 all the size info on masts and yards is there for a Frigate such as Triton.
 
If you scroll down to the bottom of the main page you will find the Tables and Dimensions of Standing and Running Rigging,again all you need to know is there. Just saw your last post,pages 208 - 211 should be of interest. Hope this helps.
 
Dave 

Thank you folks for the help, well appreciated


 
I got the Triton plans from NRG and since I only paid $5.00 I don’t expect them to be fully complete, I mean including the masts, and that’s fine with me.


 
My question pertains to why someone will build a hull model with so many details on each deck but not to provide any details about the masts which I will assume they will take considerable space on each deck due the extra bracing each mast requires in the hull. I’m not asking for trouble guys, I just want to educate myself.


 
I did have a brief look on the forum section in Masts but I didn’t find what I’m looking for and that is how each mast is supported/attached to the hall.


 
I apologize if I’m asking something silly but I never built a model before and have zero knowledge about ships but to my opinion a mast will need a lot of work to be attached to a ship since that’s the “engine” which moves the ship and that “engine” takes a lot of forces from the winds so they are better well secured to the hull.

Sorry to hear of your bad health. I wish you the best for a speedy and complete recovery. 

As a visitor to a similar unit a few years ago, all the best for a speedy recovery, there are others on this site who have also been in this position and will join in wishing you a full\healthy and speedy recovery
Best regards
Paul
 

As another one who survived a stroke (mild for me) I wish you a full recovery, Christian. 

Sorry to read of your unglück, Christian. Best wishes for a full recovery.

I was wondering why we had not heard from you in some time.  I hope that your recovery will be quick and complete.  Take care of yourself, Heinrich.

Prayers for your speedy recovery, enjoying the research and your build blog. Look forward to you back in the dock soon!

You could stabilize the hull with temporary wood beams. They would give you the rigid structure to allow for further hull work and can be removed later when you are ready to work on the decks.
 
For the decks themselves, I would use a piece of stiff paper, card stock, or similar material that you can trim to fit and see what looks right to get everything correct. Then simply use that for a template to trim the plastic decks as needed. The lower deck has the advantage in that nearly all of it will never be seen and so any errors, especially along the hull, will never be known to anyone but you. 

Thanks Marc,
I think there are a pile of discussions to be made - even with those starting SAINT PHILIPPE as a 1/24 scratch project. Sometimes I do think I want too much to of this old Heller kit. Am I overstreching its abilities?
 
 
I amv still thinking about solutions. There are a plenty of thinks I could start to do. But I have to install the planked decks first - before starting the shells' planking  . This due to stability reasons . Also it is nonsense to start the fiddely work of the transoms inside work before the hull is planked. But my bigges graft in the number of these bottlenecks
are the decks -
 

in particular the LD. And I do not want to trimm them in anyway untill I am shure it's
 

the dreck that is wrong and not me.

Thanks for the likes and comments.   Time for a proof of life update.
 
Life has gotten quite a bit quieter lately, which is good.  So I focused on these little boats.  The barge (the middle sized one) jig went well and so deciding to be bold and do both at the same time, I started on the cutter jig.  Hmm... not so good.  It's smaller and everything is proportionally more fragile.  So.... spent a lot of time remake parts that I broke in the fitting.  I solved the breakage problem by reducing down the laser marking in thickness and expanding the "bits" that hold the pieces together.  Ended up coating many of them with 2 coats of white glue and water.  Seems to work and tests say I'll be able to snap those naughty bits on the lines without damage.
 
The jigs are built, the keels installed with few other necessary bits and pieces and I'm ready to start actually building the boats.  So, I'm off to fix the ribs and start planking.  Here's a photo of the jigs and the larger boat (finished).  The Longboat (finished) is 6 inches long (152.4mm), the barge is 5 inches (127mm), and the cutter is 4 inches (101.6mm) long.
 

Rant away! Horribly familiar...
 
Can you honestly recall such a schizophrenic first build log? You've had to sit through it too
 
I'll point out the flaws, finish the damn thing and proceed to make a proper bona fide build log of a very highly regarded kit, Daniel Dusek's pentekontor in 72nd. I have the .pdf plans already from his site - if it turns out half as good as Robin Lous' and others, well, that'll be progress!
 
Anyway, this thing... the attachment has been my "actual plan/instructions" recently. Far more of a guide...
 
Have a good day, Mark and .... as nobody else is reading this, can't say I can blame them

Ah.. good for you.  go for it.  I ran in to AL's issues with my Constellation build.  Ended up just using (after reworking it) the hull to build the 1854 version.  That kit I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy.  I'll stop ranting now.