vaddoc

For years I ve been using this water based sealer, Decoart Americana https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deco-Art-Multi-Purpose-Sealer-8oz-Multicoloured/dp/B000YQJQ82 It has a practically for ever self life, cheap, water based, dries in 15 min. Apply to sanded surface, wait 15 min, sand to 400 grit. I do a second coat. Job done. sealed smooth surface. I personally dislike Shellac and methylated spirits. Decoart is just too easy to use. Vaddoc

Dear all I think I did it! But first my deepest thank you to all that visited, hit the like button or replied - much appreciated! How right you all are: Now David, I had forgotten all about the diagonals! Silly as my first efforts to loft the boat were actually using the diagonals, which is what Leo did. Thanks! Diagonals coming up bellow. I did exactly this Mark! Still, this led to a stem just short of 9 inches wide, whereas Leo ended up with a 7 inch stem. No matter how much I tried I could not match this without drastically altering the shape of the sheer or having a stem clearly wrong and too far off the plans. Absolutely. After the hull was pretty much shaped, I realised that what appeared as large unfairness in the CAD lines was in reality just a difference of 3-4 mm, and this in the full size boat. I most certainly will Greg and I also plan to visit Tally Ho (if possible) when Leo gets back home. All in good time! Ok, so now let me share the progress made - I must admit I am pretty happy, unless some eagled eyed people find a huge error somewhere! So blending all data sources I found a happy medium for the sheer, the stem, the sternpost, transom, face of stem and keel. I accepted that frame no 2 will be a bit S-shaped (not much). I then went through three lofting cycles. Suddenly, all fell into place! All lines were fair and the frames and waterlines were either touching or just a few mm apart: These are the sets of frames after each cycle - the white frames are the traced ones from Mr Strange's drawings. But is the hull really fair? Enter diagonals! It is actually ok! The unfairness at the stern is because I used the last frame to create the lines - without it the top three diagonals become completely fair. I will actually not be using this last frame so all good. The bottom diagonal is a bit wonky but the distance to fairness in that aft point in reality is just 2 mm in the full scale boat - meaningless. At the bow, again the adjustments to make the diagonals fair are tiny. In any case, I thought I d give it a try. So I faired the diagonals... ......produced the new contact points with the frames and transferred these points over to the finished hull to redraw these frames... ....and then I gave up. It was meaningless, the difference was just a few mm. In the actual boat it would not make a difference, even Leo accepted 1/8 inch tolerance. In 1/12 scale, this tolerance becomes less than 0.5mm. The next photo shows my frames compared the the traced ones - they are pretty close. So lets see the hull! Now, this looks pretty fair. More bellow Adding the rest of rabet at the stern And a couple of photos of the complete hull. I think it is adequate to start the project and the wood will correct any imperfections. This was the first of I am sure many milestones in this very long journey. We are still far from making any wood dust. Take care all Vaddoc

This is such a fun project to follow Phil! Quick question, why do you sand the superstructure between paint coats? Vaddoc

Dear all I was too fast congratulating myself! Not only I have no progress to show in this short update but actually I ve gone backwards. Still, my understanding of this hull has grown. Now, this is going again to be a bit technical which means quite boring! When I went to do the second round of fairing, I noticed that the frame No2 had acquired an S shape. I am sensitive to No 2 frames - consistently in my boats they creates issues. Looking deeper, I did not like it. So I scrapped everything and started again, this time using the table of offsets. But I again run into problems as things did not add up. These are the issues I have encountered so far with these plans: 1. The sheer is difficult to define The start and finish of the sheer, which are at the face of the stem and at the back face of the transom, are not given in the table of offsets. These can be measured from the lines drawing but it does not work very well. Furthermore, the sheer in the lines drawing is far from fair and the half breadths and depths in the table of offsets also do not produce a fair sheer and do not work at all well with all the other information given in the various sheets of the plans. It took a lot of head scratching but finally, combining all sources, I managed to produce a sheer that I feel is half descend. 2. The shape and position of the stem is difficult to define. This information is given in three places. In the table of offsets, in a separate sheet in the plans where distances are give from the baseline and the forward end of the sheer (the latter is NOT given though in the table of offsets!), and also can be defined by the plan drawings. These three sources provide three different stems! The difference is not huge but still significant. Again, by blending everything I think I have a reasonable stem 4. The width of the face of the stem after tapering from the rabet is a bit of a quizz Now, this face progressively widens from the top of the stem finally reaching the full width of the keel. These widths are given at various heights but still fairing of the lateral edge of the face is needed so that this transition is smooth. I finally managed to do this, which of course changed some of the dimensions given in the table of offsets, but, whereas Leo starts this face at 1.25" wide, in the lines drawings it is much wider, almost 2" or more. (This information is not written anywhere else). In 1:12 scale this face will be 2.5 mm so maybe a bit too narrow. In my CAD drawings I ve followed Leo and did it 1.25" but may need to revisit this to make it wider - this will unfortunately mean that I will need to redo the sheer. We will see. 5. The sternpost and transom dimensions are not given I traced the lines drawings to get this. The width of the sternpost is not given either but luckily Leo mentions it is 4" wide - which looks about right. 6. There seems to be a problem with the body plan Now, this is important. The plans contain a table of offsets and also the lines in profile view and body view. Now, these do match, with the exception of the bottom end of the frames. (All of the frames) In the following photo, the waterline is the blue line. Note what is happening with frames 1 and 2. The top ends of the frames indeed meet the sheer where they should in the profile plan. The green lines show where the frames should finish according to the table of offsets. These heights are correct in the profile plan but not in the body plan. The frames seem to reach the keel quite a bit higher. This is the case for all frames. (Apologies, for frame No4 both lines are green but the upper one should be red) I really tried to figure this out but cannot find an explanation. Interestingly, Leo in his own lofting seem to have positioned the bottom end of frame No 2 in the position given in the table of offsets - about 3/4 of the way down between the 2 waterlines Frame No 2 in his plans appear to be ever so slightly S shaped - which is what I think it should be. Now, I ve been fighting this a few weeks now and am a bit broken, I need to recover a bit before I continue. If any of the wise elders can provide any advice on the discrepancy between the body and profile plans, I really would be grateful! Take care all Vaddoc

Dear all A wee bit of an update as I found a bit of time here and there to work on the boat. No sawdust yet (and will not be for a long time!) but a lot of digital ink spilled over my monitors. @KennyH78 Kenny, if you decide to build Tally Ho, let me know and I will send you the CAD file - if I manage to loft the boat that is. Still, lofting the boat is fun but also would give you a much better understanding of the hull lines and how she should be built. So lets discuss Tally Ho's plans. There is no doubt that there are issues with the plans in the archives of the Albert Strange Association. Tally Ho is a bit different to all the other boats I have lofted. The curvature of the hull does not stop at the rabet but continues at the stem, sternpost and all the way to the bottom of the keel. I think I remember Leo in one of his videos mentioning that there were missing data from the plans, specifically the offsets for the stem and sternpost. This is indeed one of the issues I am facing. Furthermore, the paper has been distorted over the years, there seems to be a bit of damage but also, my copy of the plans has not been scanned very well so there are some gaps with the lines and the text. Also, CAD is very unforgiving and I am picking up all sorts of issues with the plans - Leo must have seen this but to a lesser degree, as he did not use CAD for his lofting. Ok, so lets get a bit more technical - This may be boring but may also help some people with their lofting (and lofting of Tally Ho in particular). For me, the first step in lofting a boat is to find the edges of the hull surface. These are the sheer at the top, the rabet/bottom of keel at the bottom, the sternpost/transom aft and the stem with its rabet at the front. Most but not all of this info is in the table of offsets but again there are issues. The table of offsets does not seem to correspond to the dimensions as measured using the plan lines. I initially created the sheer using the numbers from the table, however the position of the stem and transom, which define the start and finish of the sheer, must be taken from the lines - also the width of the stem. Combining all these does not really work. Using just the lines again does not work - the boat comes out short by half foot and generally things do not work well, the lines are not fair and there are issues with the keel. So I decided to ignore the table of offsets - I only used the half breadths for the bottom of the keel. I traced all the frames (except frame 13 which is missing) and positioned them in their stations (2 feet apart) using the same reference point to make sure they were aligned. I added some diagonals of my own - Leo was right, this boat is much easier to loft using diagonals. I then added the sheer, keel, sternpost/Transom and stem. Again it did not work! So I went back to watching the You Tube videos and the solution was there. You see, Leo had the same plans as I do but he also had the boat! He mentions that the sternpost face is 4 inches wide - excellent. But he also showed this drawing: This shows that the stem is 7 inches wide (although he chose 8 inches to give more support the the hood ends of the planks. The lines show the stem less thick at 6 inches. Mine was 10.6 inches so clearly wrong. The face of the stem is only 1.25 inches and the rabet 6.75" from the stem face. This was very useful. I also measured the distances of the stem from station 6 at all waterlines, to get its shape I used all these to draw a new stem with a new shape at a new position. I then created a new sheer from the top of the frames I had traced. Combining all worked beautifully! The boat is now 47.5' long and the stem just over 7" wide! The drawing bellow is the same as Leos. The yellow line is the contact surface of the planks with the stem. The arrow shows the half thickness of the stem. The blue line is the sheer. So now with all boundaries defined, it was time to start lofting. Some work was done to get the half breadths at the bottom of the keel correct. I traced all the diagonals, waterlines and buttocks. They were of course all over the place: Fairing this line produces a much more satisfying curve. After all the lines had been drawn and faired, new frames were produced - using only the diagonals. All new frames drawn and faired. I noticed that there was very little deviation from the original contact points with the diagonals. The last frame aft is a different colour because it did not really cooperate. This needs more work. This is just the first cycle of lofting but I tried to make a surface and I was half surprised how well it worked. I knew the lines where not that far off but I did not expect this: The hull is already reasonable and the areas where usually I have issues, at the bow and stern, look mostly ok. The boat needs at least one more lofting cycle but it looks promising. Take care all Vaddoc

Perhaps this will be helpful, there is a build log where styrene rod was used, then a heat gun to melt the part of rods sticking out into round rivet heads that could be painted. Vaddoc

@Desertanimal @Knocklouder Chris and Bob many thanks, and to all that hit the like button, great to have you along! @Keith Black Keith, I was actually thinking the same, life certainly has the annoying habit of getting in the way. This boat in some ways is like the Deben I ve built in the past, but larger and far more complex and Lord knows how much work that boat took, when I had much more time. But we can't leave MSW without a model of Tally Ho so let's hope everything will work out in the end. @wrkempson Wayne wow! This is just great, thank you for sharing. It is interesting that you reached the same conclusion, that Tally Ho's plans are like a puzzle with a few pieces missing. I will need to study your master lines and all the good work you did, see how it compares to the plans and the table of offsets. Which software did you use? Best wishes to all Vaddoc

Ok, so lets do a quick follow up post with the first thoughts on this. To start with, the plans do not seem to be as comprehensive. There are the lines and some drafts of the keel and a table of offsets but something feels not quite right. Then again, Leo managed to loft the boat so everything should be there. I checked the plans and the lines are not really straight, or vertical. This is common however, paper distorts over time and CAD is really very unforgiving to plans drafted 115 years ago. These lines will be ok to start but serious lofting will be needed. Still, this seems a much easier boat to loft than Hercules I imported the plans to Rhino and scaled them to the actual boat size. I need to dive more into these but it seems that the distances as measured from the lines plan are not the same as in the table of offsets. I am not sure where the stem/start of sheer should be or where the Transom sits. To make things worse, the plans I received do not seem to have been scanned very well. Most of the text in the table of offsets was missing but I managed to recreate it by watching Leo's videos - he had the same plans and they can be seen in a video, so I was able to read almost all of the missing text. A part of the lines plan has not been scanned well and another small area at the bow is missing - apparently permanently damaged as it is missing from Leo's plans as well However, the same lines are easily found on the internet, clearly copied before the damage occurs so I scaled this to size and used it to fill the gaps - kind off. So I blended all together and came up with a sheer plan view Then added the profile view and created the sheer from these Adding the other half, shows a bit of the boat shape Now this is just a study of the plans as I am not really sure where the sheer begins and ends, but it's a start. Until next time Vaddoc

"It's amazing what a boat can do" TALLY HO with fidded topmast and spinnaker flying. Photo; Beken of Cowes, 1927. Tally Ho is not just a boat - it is an amazing story of friendship, perseverance, skill and success, a crossroad of many journeys - of men and boats. It all started with Albert Strange, a man of many talents, with a passion for sailing and for designing light cruising vessels. He designed Tally Ho (originally named Betty) which was built and commissioned in 1910. The Albert Strange Association website is really the best place to learn about this remarkable person. https://albertstrange.org/biography/ Tally Ho lived a colourful but hard life. The highlight is, or rather had been up to now, winning the Fastnet race in 1927 but then, in 1968, she actually sunk hitting a reef in Manuae, near Cook Islands. She was then raised and repaired. https://sampsonboat.co.uk/about/tally-ho-history Many people came and went and Tally Ho was brought into disrepair, hauled ashore somewhere in the west cost of America and placed under a huge tarpaulin. She was put up for an unlikely sale, destined to be broken up. There comes Leo, a fearless young man with a dream - he bought Tally Ho for $1 and then spent 7 years rebuilding her from the ground up. The journey can be found on You Tube, Leo has posted hundreds of videos and through this funded the project. It is a fascinating journey with its ups and downs, happy and sad moments, triumphs and disasters. She is now all finished, truly a wonderful boat, slowly making her way back to the UK. Watching the videos (I actually picked all this up rather late) there was no doubt in my mind that one day I would build Tally Ho. This will be a big project and at this time (and for the foreseeable future) I have no time to spare, limited finances, multiple other endeavours and Hercules half way through. What better time to start building Tally Ho than now! After all, her story is one of overcoming obstacles, with a launching date 2 years from now - so all good. I hope I will be able to pull this off and also, to do the boat justice! I contacted the Albert Strange Association and got the plans. I ve been sitting on these for months now but I finally fired up the computer and started drawing lines with virtual ink on CAD. I have not decided on the scale yet but it will be large. Take care all Vaddoc

Great job on the hull Phil! I usually seal the wood and spray a thin film of modelling primer on hulls before painting. I am very close to painting my hull as well. Are you planning to do anything to the raised edges left by the tape? People apparently sand these but I am not sure how this could be done without ruining the whole paint job. Vaddoc

Time sure flies! Many thanks for the visit and likes @Dr PR Phil, I remembered you sharing this and it was on my to do list, unfortunately I had to use so many pieces of wood to straighten the hull that there was no space for a brush, most of the inner surface of the hull was inaccessible. I ll be using epoxy for sure in the future though. So, very little progress to share but here it is: I finished with the propeller shaft housing, it is secured, sanded and faired. I think this was a much more elegant solution than Occre's but also much more difficult. Next I started cutting the openings on the bulwark. One side went fine: The other not, the drill slipped! Trying to see how to correct it, I broke it even more! Ok, no need to panic. It was relatively straight forward to fix it: It has since been sanded and the screws replaced with tree nails. When painted and more stuff added on, it will be invisible. I then attached the rubrail on one side Now the rub rail continues around the stern in a pretty tight curve for a 3 x 3 mm pear strip to accept. I emersed the strip in a pot of boiling water slowly pushing against the pot wall, the strip took the bend in no time. This is all I had time to do between work and extended summer vacations. My work load is going to drastically increase soon, so clearly the most reasonable thing to do is to start another log on an ambitious project - coming soon. Best wishes to all Vaddoc

My 2 c: I do not think you need any specialised tutorials, just play with Rhino a bit more. There is a command to create surface, one to offset surfaces (for the thickness of planking) and another to unroll surfaces (sometimes useful). Use the command to fair lines but this needs care as it may move lines - useful also to progressively use as few points as possible for your curves. The lines need to touch for a surface to be created but lofting does not need to be perfect as the wood will correct lots of imperfections. Using fewer curves for surfaces is easier. The curves that do not play ball can later on be projected on to the surface - there is a command to project lines and points to a surface that is very useful. To create the hull surface, you need to have defined the sheer (best created from two lines/views), the keel rabbet, sternpost and stem. To check for ripples and surface fairness there is the analyze surface command that contains surface analysis tools. You can also import plans and lines, scale them appropriately and use them to trace lines and then position these to the 3D space. I think you are almost there to be honest. Best wishes Vaddoc

A way of planking boats and ships is to mark a straight plank somewhere in the middle of the hull. This way the planks above and bellow will not have excessive curves during spilling or in your case will not need to be bent sidewise too much.

Yes, this would have been a better alternative but I always end up overbuilding things. But I may have gone too far with this! What is not visible is the epoxy I added inside afterwards to glue the plywood walls with the frame...

A wee more update as I did a bit more work on the boat - I must admit I am having too much fun! I previously admitted that I shamelessly read the building instructions from Occre of their Hercules kit to get some ideas. There are a few things that I felt could be done better, in this post I ll show my solutions to the problems. So I left the hull on the side for now and started work on the superstructure. Again, my CAD drafts were not entirely correct but at least the templates for the superstructure inner bulkheads were spot on. However, the plywood started warping so I screwed the bottom to a very thick piece of plywood and used screws and epoxy to make it rock solid. Now, Occre uses lots of thin vertical pieces to cover the forward part of the superstructure, blended together afterwards with filler and sanding but I just bend a piece of 1 mm plywood. Another area were Occre used multiple thin strips is the two aft corners but I just made two pillars with stacked pieces of plywood - the small gap will be very easily filled with filler. Hercules has a very distinct propeller shaft tube thingy, this is a feature that a model must have. The solution from Occre is not very elegant, just bending a piece of wood over a tube. My solution was different. It was actually easy to draft this in CAD and looking at the drawing, it seemed doable to sand a half dowel to sit on the hull. Indeed, it worked well and was surprisingly easy and quick. The screws will of course be replaced with wood nails, maybe even use a bot of epoxy, then filler and sanding - I think it will look fine. Best wishes Vaddoc