tarbrush

Hello Ab,
 
welcome to the gang, enjoy your stay here at MSW. I liked your nice introduction thread and the way you described your interest for modeling methods.....
 
Nils

Thanks for all the welcome words. I am overwhelmed.
Let me show you one of the photoshop paintings my son makes from my paper models. This is the Battle of the Sound (1658), when Dutch ships fought the Swedes over the entrance to the Baltics.

You have dwelt where very few have had an opportunity to witness and study the masters of their time. They were an inspiration to all, past and present. I suspect "living" within in this realm you may calibrate your work against theirs. It is hard not to do. Also when it is a work project one cannot always take the time you would otherwise invest if it were your own.
 
Within this forum there are modern day masters that we all, at times, compare ourselves to. For myself I have been inspired by and learned from them. 
 
Welcome to MSW.
 
Joe

Welcome to MSW Ab.
Ab is very modest - one of his paper models was on the cover of the NRG's Nautical Research Journal - Fall 2016 (61.3) and featured inside
Kurt

We are honored and fortunate to have access to someone with vast knowledge of and experience with 17th and 18th century Dutch shipbuilding. Your efforts to increase the exposure to this subject and make it much more accessible to ship modellers thru books and journal articles is greatly appreciated .  I hope your tenure here is rewarding.

Hi,
My name is Ab Hoving and I live in  Holland. Model shipbuilding has been my hobby all of my life and in 1989 I left my job as an art teacher in Groningen, up north, behind to become head of the restoration department Navy models of the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. The museum holds a beautiful collection of ship models and parts, collected by the Navy and the Admiralties, dating back to 1640. I retired in 2012, much to my regret. It was a wonderful time, working on the most exquisite models man has made in the past.
If in many cases during my professional life I built ship models, my only aim was to investigate building methods, constructions or for instance the usefulness of 17th and 18th century building contracts. The model was never the end product, it was all about the knowledge. Modelbuilding was a method of research for me in those days.
Nowadays I build ship models purely for fun. I am not a very good model builder. I always am impressed to see what other people are capable of, with no other purpose than the fun of building. I am sloppy and sometimes too hasty, but I always aim for a realistic look nowadays. Later on I will show you what I mean. 
To make it easier for myself I use paper as the basic material now. Paper is wonderful versatile and easy to shape material and it takes very little tools to work with. Although I used to make many paper kits of planes and vehicles in my spare time, I never used paper for ship models. It was the papermodelers.com site where I was inspired to build paper ships. The papermodelerssite  is a wonderful medium for model builders, but not entirely dedicated to ship modeling. Planes, vehicles, space ships and figurines all show up there. I recommend it to you all to take a look. But probably this forum, specialized in ships and boats, is a better platform to show my efforts and to learn from you all.
In the nearby future I will try to post some recent work. Hope you will like it.
Best,
Ab

Hi Zack
 
The following is a simple description of how to plank a hull. Hope it helps.
 
First thing is to locate the wale line. This is the the strongest part of the the hull with reinforcement. The position of the wale line should be given in the plan of the kit. From the wale line upwards, the planks (technically known as strakes) are uniform width. You can use the stipes supplied and plank the portion from the wale all the way upwards.
 
Next measure the parametric length of each frame from the wale line down towards the keel and record the figures.
 
Using the frame in midship (the largest one) as a reference to decide how many planks are required to cover the enitre side of the hull. For example, if the parametric length is 100 mm and you are using 5mm width strips, then theoretically you will need 20 strakes to cover the hull. But that means that in the midship section, there is no room for error because the strake is exactly the width of your stripe. It is best to allow some room for adjustment. Let's say if we decide that at the mid ship the strake should be 4.0mm then there should be 25 strakes along the hull.
 
If you start planking 25 strakes in one go, accumulated error will build up and by the time you reach the end, the strakes will not fit. To overcome this problem, divide the hull into along the parameter of the frames into belts. Using the example of 100 mm mid frame to fit 25 strakes, the hull can be divided into 5 belts with 5 strakes in each belt.
 
Now that you have decided on 5 belts, divide the parametric length of each frame by 5 and mark the position on each frame with a marker pen (photo 1). One point to bear in mind is that the narrowest portion should not be less than half the strake width. Battens are guides to define the belts and give you an idea how the hull looks like before the strikes are in place. 2x2 mm strips is a good choice for battens. Soak the battens in water over night so that they can bend easily over the shape of the hull and installed them on the hull following the markers (photo 2). If you want to work from the wale line downwards, the battens should be installed ABOVE the makers. If you want to work from the keel upwards, the battens should be installed BELOW the makers. The idea is that the first belt you will be working on should have the width of that you have worked out before hand. In this example, the space between the batten and the wale line should be 20 mm measured from the wale line if you work from the wale towards the keel.
 
Measure the distances between the batten and the wale line for each frame and record them on a piece of paper or a spread sheet programme. Divide each distance by 5 to give you the width of the strake at each frame. Mark the distance between the frames on a stripe. At each position where the frame should be, mark the corresponding width. Join these marks with a smooth curve and shave off the extra material to give you the first stake that should sit on the hull next to the wale. Pin the strake onto the frame. Now that you have installed the first strake, measure the distances between the first strake and the batten for each frame again and divide it by 4 to give you the dimensions of the next strake and cut it to the width required. When you have completed the 5 strakes required, remove the first batten and proceed to the next belt. By constantly adjusting the width we will prevent accumulated error from building up
 
As a first attempt on ship modelling, I think it is best to work on a clipper style of hull where the strakes run straight along the entire hull. The example shown in the photo is for a 17th century ship (the Endeavour) with a curved bow that requires different treatment at the bow. If you are interested in how to do it, send me a PM and we can discuss it further.
 
All the best
 
Wing Chau
aka Apprentice
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Hi All,
 
Finally a post!
 
As if my work wasn't coming along slowly enough, a car accident and heavier work load managed to bring my ship modeling of all types to a standstill.
 
After nearly two months of making no progress on anything, I finally found myself in a position to move forward again on the Umibune. I didn't managed to figure out too much regarding the making of scale figures for the model, but I did finish tying the bindings on the rails. I also decided on how I wanted to finish the aft deckhouse, or yakata.
 
I basically returned to the idea of installing only lower panels on the sides of the structure. There seem to be a multitude of ways that artists and model makers have interpreted this design, so I just went with something I recall seeing in a painting. Is it accurate? There really doesn't appear to be any way to know for sure. But, it seems reasonable. In the photos below, you can see the panels before installation, as well as how they look in place on the model. I originally built these slightly oversized, allowing me to adjust them to fit.
 

 

 
As you can see from the photos, I also attached the rudder. The rudder on larger Japanese boats are fit through a hole in the back edge of a heavy beam at the stern. The Japanese did not use gudgeon straps and pintles to hold the rudder in place, but instead, rudders were held up by a rope lifting system, like Chinese boats, which allowed the rudder to be raised or lowered as needed. The hole in the large beam provided the necessary lateral support.
 
The lifting rope is attached to a hole in the top of the rudder blade and runs through a block, which is attached to the aft-most roof beam. The design of the block was not described anywhere, so I based it on a block that appeared in Woody Joe's Higakikaisen kit. This is a teardrop shaped block that apparently contains no wheel, unlike a modern-style block.
I was motivated to use this based on a comment that was made to me while visiting the Hacchoro fishing boats of Yaizu in 2016. While showing me some of the features of the Hacchoro,
 
Mr. Hiroyuki Kobayashi, one of the people who are responsible for the Hacchoro boats, told me that while the Hacchoro replicas use a standard wooden blocks in their sail gear, the Japanese didn't originally have such blocks.
 

Modern blocks on the modern Hacchoro replica.
 
He didn't elaborate, but seeing the wheel-less blocks on the Higakikaisen model suggested to me that this was the design that the Japanese originally used and is what Mr. Kobayashi was referring to. Unfortunately, I can't find any photos of that type of block, but here's the one that I made.
 

 
This type of block would most certainly have too much friction with the rope passing through it to be very efficient. But, it's very possible that its function is more to help support the rudder than to lift it up. Possibly, a few strong sailors would physically haul up on the rudder and tiller as someone hauled on the rope to take up slack and to help support the rudder's weight until the rope was tied off to beam at the stern.
 

 
In any case, I glued the stropping rope around the block and siezed it into place. The ends of the rope were simply run over the top of the beam and tied off underneath a crossbeam. I have no idea how the original was attached. Probably just passed around the beam, the way a block is fastened around the yard arm on a Western sailing ship.
 
The rudder was put into place with a rope seized through the hole in the rudder blade and rigged. To help hold the rudder in place, as it's too light to simply hang from the support rope, a hole was drilled through the rudder post and into the great beam and a pin pass through. This allowed me to keep the lifting rope taught, while keeping the rudder nicely in position.
 
More on oars and the very unusual anchors next time.
 
Clare

Thanks everyone for your concern and good wishes!
 
All is well. My insurance company took good care of me and paid out for the car. I feel sorry for the guy who rear-ended me, as he damaged his own truck as well as my car and my insurance company is going to be wanting to recover their money. Turns out he did have an insurance company, but he didn't have the truck he was driving on his policy. Don't know if it was an error on his part or what.
 
I lost a reliable, tough little car, and had to go through the process of getting a new one – and it's a process I HATE. But, the insurance company paid out very quickly. Only now, I have car payments. But, I like the car. So, all is well.
 
Work-wise, I've just been a bit too busy, so decided to try to slow down a bit and to try to make some modeling progress. Took some time out today, as I'm feeling really worn out. But, made a little progress on the trade boat and other things.
 
 
You may recall that this boat has one large sail. I don't know if I will mount a sail on it or not. I find it rather interesting how the lowered mast is stowed. I think I have a method for creating the sail, which was made from rice-straw matting, not cloth. But, I will have other opportunities to make that, and it would probably be simpler and more realistic at a larger scale.
 
In any case, I also have the full set of oars I made. I've decided that even though the museum models I've seen show the boat equipped for sculling, that my interpretation of early scroll paintings suggest they were rowed and not sculled. Also, I started to thinking about the side-to-side motion involved in sculling, and I see only rope bindings on these oars in all cases (museum models).
 

 
I can't see how rope bindings would be able to take the amount of side-to-side pressure without loosing very quickly. If rowed, the binding would simply be to hold the oar and keep it from slipping. All the force of propulsion from the oars are taken by the beam extensions of the ship. 
 
So the next issue was how these would tie into place. Nothing too special there, except that you can't simply tie it the oar to the beam, as you'd have a hard time moving it. You need to tie a rope securely around the oar and then that rope needs to be tied to the beam. Does this difference make sense? There needs to be some freedom of movement for the oar, so the rope itself becomes something of a pivot.
 
So, I started by tying a length of line around each rope at the pivot point. I used pencil marks for measurement. I didn't feel this needed to be exact. There is an extra pencil mark, as I realized I wanted the pivot point just a little higher up on the handle. Thread cutter and pencil included for size reference.
 

 
After I tied all of the oars like this, I realized I needed more of a lashing, so I wrapped the thread around the oar and tied a second knot.
 

 
Tying the rope then onto the model, I kept the knot-side against the beam. I can't quite explain the final wrapping, as I kind of figured it out as I went. Something like wrapping both ends under the beam, over the top a couple times, making sure to stay on the opposite sides of the oar, then tying a final knot around the rope in between the oar and the beam. This turned out to be as challenging as rigging blocks on a square rigger.
 

 
Another difference between my model and modern museum models and their sculling oars is that sculling oars have a handle near the end of the oar and a line tied down to the rail or beam wraps over that to help hold the oar in place while sculling. Such lines seemed to have no purpose with this type of oar, so I didn't include them.
 

 
In this side view you can see how the oars look once they're all on the model, though I still have to add them onto the other side. I made the base just a tad too short, causing the aft-most oar to hang down just a little too much.
 

Well, tragedy struck when I took my model to one of the local club meetings. I don't know how it happened, but I had the model in a travel box to help keep it from getting damaged. It made it just fine through a 114 mile round trip to one meeting. The next meeting, more like 30 miles one-way, I'm pretty sure it survived just fine. It wasn't until it was sitting in the box in our model shop (I tried to keep it out of harm's way), that it looks to me like someone leaned on the box and broke up the aft structure.
 
It's not the first time that taking a model to a meeting, particularly one stored in a box to protect it, appears to have been damaged in this way. I have one model that I just never got around to repairing.
 
Fortunately, when I got it home, I found that most of the damage was done to various glue joints. No wood was actually broken. So, I had a small stack of puzzle pieces to fit back together. But, all in all, I was able to make the repairs pretty quickly, and with visible signs of the damage. 
 
However, this did keep me from finishing the oars before I had to leave for the NRG Conference. So, I simply took it with me, along with some tools, glue, etc. Since I was driving there anyway, taking the extra things was no problem. I got to the location in the evening and took the model up to my room, added the remaining oars, and it was on display the next morning!
 
Here was the model the night before the accident, displayed at the meeting of the South Bay Model Shipwrights at the Los Altos Public Library. It is shown here next to a model of a club model of a Viking ship in the same scale.

 
The model was one of three scratch built Japanese "wasen" models that I brought to the NRG Conference. That's the Japanese Wooden Boatbuilding book by Douglas Brooks, which I used for the Urayasu Bekabune model in the center. On the left is my Hozu river boat.

 
And, finally, the completed Kamakura period Sea Boat...
 

 
鎌倉時代の海船
 
 
After seeing the model on display at the conference, I decided to officially call this project complete. Being that this is part of an ongoing research project, I'll always be adding some small details to it. I could either leave it as permanently incomplete, or simply call it "done" and sneak little additions to it over time. So, I'm opting for the latter option.
 
I did feel that the model was a bit small for this display. At 1/50-scale, it's 21-1/2" long. If I make another, which is very likely, I think I'll opt for something like 1/30-scale, making it up to 35" long. Of course, the larger the scale, the more details I'll need to add, and the better job I'll have to do. 
 
In any case, this has been a test bed for reconstructing this type of boat. I think my next step is to get a first-hand look at a couple of the Japanese museum models built of this type of boat. That's going to take some savings and fundraising again to make the next trip to Japan!
 
 

Installation of frames.

First step.
Preparation of parts.

Cruiser "Varyag"  1901 :
    Builder :   William Cramp & Sons , Philadelphia
    Displacement:    6,500 t
    Length:    129.6 m
    Beam:    15.8 m 
    Draught:    6.3 m
    Armament:    
12 × 1 - 152 mm (6 in) guns
12 × 1 - 75 mm (3.0 in) guns
8 × 1 - 47 mm (1.9 in) guns
2 × 1 - 37 mm (1.5 in) guns
6 × 1 - 381 mm (15.0 in) above-water torpedo tubes (1 bow, 1 stern, 2 per side)
 
 
 

The model will be completely built of wood and metal. Plastic parts are not applicable. Fiberglass is used only to insert the wooden case of the model.
      The model will be built in the style of the museum. This photo shows an analogue of this style. This 1:48 scale model is kept in St. Petersburg, in the Central Naval Museum.
 
  There are very few metal ships on the forum. I will try to add a little.  ☺️

Thanks everybody for the likes.
 
Pat, actually the grain ran that way because in the bit of wood I had available. That it gave a bit of strength was fortuitous.
 
HOWEVER, I really wouldn't recommend this technique. It would have been far less work, worry and grief if I'd just made a template and cut four arcades from a sheet of wood 1mm thick. Slitting the four apart from a single block was a real hassle. Perhaps if I'd had a more professional workshop it might have worked better - but then again perhaps not. The major problem was that the piece of fretsaw blade I used to cut the arcades apart kept wandering and cutting in where it wasn't wanted, and there seemed to be very little I could do about it.
 
See the dodgy cut lines in the pictures below. 
 
 
 
I haven't yet decided whether they're worth keeping or whether I should just start again. After all that work I'd be reluctant to throw them away, but it might be the best thing to do. But first I'll see if I can salvage them. If I can get them thick enough, with smooth faces to the outside, they may be worth it.
 
Certainly, the idea I had to make them all identical (based on what others on the forum have done in making multiple blocks) didn't really work very well. There was quite a bit of variation between them anyway, so the major purpose for the technique wasn't achieved.
 
I didn't really gain anything from the experiment except the experience of doing it and the knowledge it's not a very good method. Perhaps that's worthwhile enough in its own right 😥. 
 
Steven 

the paint job looks great Ozark!

Finally making a start on the superstructure. There are two wooden "castles" amidships (one each side) and a triangular fortified wooden forecastle, all of which I've designed to have a set of four arches supporting them, standing on round posts. You can see the idea in this cardboard mock-up.
 

 
As all the sets of arches (I suppose I should really call them arcades) are identical, I decided to try something a little different, and make all of them from a single block of wood and then saw them apart.
 
I'm sure I took photos of the block with just the concave side  of the arches cut and smoothed, but I must have deleted them.

I discovered it's a very bad idea to use a file on something this delicate. SNAP! Had to glue it back together before I could proceed.





One arcade separated from the others. Just two more cuts to do, then I can get onto smoothing them off. I used a fine saw-blade, broken short, and worked VERY slowly and carefully cutting them apart. I didn't want to break them again. Definitely an education.

And I've just made a start on the "hoops" for the arched awning at the prymne or poop deck.

I'm doing six of them; this is the first. There'll be "stringers" running between them (inside the arches) to keep them all the same shape. There'll be a pair of posts supporting each of these "hoops".
 
 
Steven
 
 
 
 
 
 

Now were I am at as of now.The blocks from HISmodel and I made the grates for the hatch looks much better than the plastic in the frame and the deck has two coats of semi-gloss water base clear I like for indoor furniture.The mast I tried something we use on WWI propellers to simulate a wood grain using oils not enough grain effect came through then I sprayed over it with a orange acrylic clear diluted with yellow to try and highlight and give depth(still need more practice at that).The rings will be taped off and sprayed black or burnt iron and can anyone answer about the metal on the mast heads black?
 

I have been by the sail bug of late and nostalgia and ventured back to my youth when I made just about all of Revell sailing ships.So I picked up the USS America simple get my feet wet again with the rigging and such.I p/u from HISmodel the wooden deck and block/pulleys which the pulleys will be a new venture for me I have dealt with wood decks on the Eugen.I have the hull,decks and the mast are just about finished in painting just a little bit more.Russ lives like three houses down and says the black iron on the rudder goes so that be fixed and I went with 16' planks right or not I don't know but I mark them lined the ends and nail.I have seen alot of these decks with one nail hole ? call it my personnel   interpretation  Kevin

Current status of Sergal Cutty Sark, extensively modified from the grossly incorrect plans.  Using Longridge and Underhill as guides.  10 years into this project!

First action - making new frames to accommodate the new shape at the stern.
 
   
 
Steven

Back to the Great Harry after a delay of over two and a half years.
 
All this time I've been working on a folding table in my wife's sewing room/ironing room, which also doubles as a bedroom for the incontinent old dog (which means we have to mop the floor every morning and can't leave a chair on the floor).

 
Just this week we finished converting the sitting room/library/spare bedroom, so I've finally got a dedicated space to work on models which has storage space, a nice big desk with drawers in it, a chest of shallow drawers, and overhead shelves for reference books and tools and two more shelves each with enough vertical room for a ship model, masts and all. Not as much light here as in the other room, so I'm going to have to work on that. I hate working with insufficient light.

 
So now I can work on the Great Harry when I'm stuck/bored with the dromon. I've put together a little stand to hold her upright while I'm working on her.

 
 
My first project will be to re-do the frames I made two and a half years ago as I've realised the flat stern extends well below water level, which would stop water flowing past the rudder.
 
Looking forward to it. The ship's been sitting there sneering at me far too long . . .
 
Steven 

Good evening all,    first step today was to convert some dimensions  to 1/100 scale  on one of the plans I have,   I will then overlay this drawing by hand onto my Peregrine  plans that are already at 1/100 scale,   this will give me a guide  to how much upscaling the keel will need.
 
OC.

you invite.........I come    I have an idea for your length dilemma........if the kit your modifying has a three piece keel {  bow stem,  stern stem,  separated by a keel spine,  you can likely do it from the mid ship.   you will need the measurement of the bulkhead spacing to figure out the length,  and the number of the center bulkhead.   say the center bulkhead is #5........create a second one #5a.  factor in the spacing for the bulkhead......if the spacing is 48 mm.......you will be adding 48 mm to the overall length of the keel.   I did this when I built the hull for the trawler Syborn.......you can check out the log on page ten,  here in the scratch build forum.   I don't have a lot left to do on her........seeing her that far back....WOW,  I gotta get her back on the table and finish her  
 
you gonna have fun............it's almost necromantic! BWAAAhaaahAAAAA! 😈

Folks,
 
2 hooks have been fitted in the bow and 1 in the stern.  2 more hook needs to be fitted in the bow and 1 in the stern after I finish the ceiling planking.  Jeppe Jul Nielsen is gradually translating the 1880 DNV survey.  I am so grateful to Jeppe for his research and translation skills (and his willingness to use them!).  He has found that Leon had 4 hooks in the bow and 2 in the stern with the lowest one in both places being made of iron.  I am putting the 4 wooden hooks in and will do the iron hooks when I receive some brass strips that I've ordered. The survey says they are both 2.5" x 3.5" which I believe means that they are made out of 2.5" x 3.5" iron bar (roughly 1/16" x 1/16" on the model).
 
Jeppe has also found that there were 25 deck beams 10" x 11.5",  The hold pillars (4" x 10" pine) were fitted to every other deck beam.  We are surprised that the pillars do not have a square cross section since a number of other ships of similar size as Leon have 9" x 9" cross section.  
 
I've also cut out quite a few frames on the right side to make the inside clearly visible - this, of course, is why all the research has been done, i.e. to determine what the inside actually looked like!.  I'll apologize for right rather than starboard but small boat sailing with a lot of folks unfamiliar with ship jargon made the switch necessary and permanent.  I've included a photo of the left side also because the raw bulwark planking is done and for some reason I think it is just plain beautiful.
 
'Till next time
 
Doug