Channel holes and slots

[Captain Al]

I'm beginning the research and learning process in how to build and rig the channels, deadeyes, chains and shrouds for my Bounty model.  Unfortunately I think that by following the kit's instructions I have made the job a bit harder than it should be.  The kit instructed me to drill 1.5mm holes in the channel  prior to installing them, which I did.  Now they are all (6) on the hull, supported from on top with knees.   I come now to the process of installing the deadeyes and chains.  Let's forget for the moment the way to strop the deadeyes, soldering techniques, and other fine points.  My question centers on the fact that however I do the strop, with an eye underneath, there is no way I can put the eye down through a 1.5 mm hole in the channel.  I can't move to the next part of the assembly, the chains, until I figure this one out.  I read on another thread that slots are cut from the outside of the channel into the hole, and then a faceplate is put onto the outside edge of the channel.  This seems logical, do-able and even quite "authentic," but I've never seen it on any model I've viewed (and I've looked at 100s) and other than a brief mention on the other thread, never seen it discussed.  And certainly its not mentioned in my kit's instructions.  So this begs the  question,  is this the best or only way to get that eye down through the channel?  Or should I just enlarge the holes to maybe 2mm and trust in the link between the deadeye strop and the chain to prevent the chain from pulling upwards through the hole?

[druxey]

Unfortunately kits can be frustratingly misleading at times. The way it was done (both in models and the real ships) was as you describe: slots in the edge of the channel and a covering strip put on afterwards. If you can shave the edge of the channel off down to the holes, then glue a strip on after, that would be the best solution. The 'before and after' on a scratch-built model show this method.

[Captain Al]

Thank you druxy.  The 'shaving' idea would work if the holes I already drilled were closer to the edge.  But they're right smack in the middle of an 8mm wide channel.  I think cutting into the channel, even if the cut is about 3.5mm before it gets to the hole, is the better idea.  I just need to think about and plan the cuts and what tool to use -- Dremel or hand?  That is the question.  With those knee braces on the channels themselves are pretty solid.  Cutting into them shouldn't pose a big problem.  Would have been quite simple if done off the boat before mounting the channels.  Now the other solution I'm thinking about is to enlarge the holes just enough to squeeze two strands of .8mm brass wire (the smallest I can use for the stropping and still look good) down through the holes and then twist the two strands into an eye (first a top twist, then a bottom twist with a nail between the strands to create the eye).  Only drawback to this is the looks.  I can snip off most of the bottom twists, but it will still not be smooth.  I could maybe put a drop of solder on the remaining twist, or even CA gel.  And a last thought solution could be to wrap the two strands of .8 wire around a ring under the channel.  Whatever I do, I do thank you for your attention and suggestion.  In the end the right way may also be the easiest and cleanest looking.

[allanyed]

Al,

 

A picture of what you have done so far would sure help here.  It sounds like you have already drilled the holes that are  suggested in the plans but you can fill them with some sanding dust and glue.  There should not be any holes other than for eye bolts in some cases. .  Normally the slots are only  as wide as two strands of the strop wire, 1.6mm in your case,  and the depth of the slot is equal to one diameter, that is 0.8mm.  With a slot that is 0.8 mm deep, you can more easily cut this with a chisel or sharp blade rather than a saw.  

   

Allan

[druxey]

The slots could also be filed out.

[Captain Al]

I'm going to get out the digital and take a pic or two.  I know what you mean now, I think.  The strop wires will sit way out on the edge of the channel, not in the middle as for example where I've placed these 1.5 mm holes.  Be back in a few minutes with the pictures.  Thanks for your time guys.

[Captain Al]

Thanks for waiting.  Here's the shots of my channels.  I included a shot of my instruction photo from which I thought to drill the holes.  It still looks like that's what they're calling for.  But that's not to say its correct or the best way.  Filling these holes would not be a problem  My thinking now is that if I put the deadeyes through these existing holes they might be too close to the hull; not far enough outboard that the shrouds won't touch the rails.

[Captain Al]

But still..... other than being too far inboard, doesn't it still seem like it would be simplest just to drill or ream out these holes so the two strands of stropping will fit through?  And yet, if I do that, I then need to close up the pair of strands and form an eye for (the chain) and this would have to be done from underneath the channel with no room for maneuvering.  Its all still a dilemma.  Perhaps remove the channels and start fresh?

[twintrow]

I wouldn't start over....I'd fill the holes already drilled, then taking a small flat file, using the edge of the flat file, file the slots on the edge aligned with the where the holes were, then place the dead eyes in the slots and then put the covering strip on.   Really an easy fix, I've done it myself, back with one my first builds.  Lesson learned, NEXT.

 

Good luck

Tom

Edited April 19, 2015 by twintrow

[Modeler12]

I agree with Tom. The holes or slots should be outboard as far as possible. The whole idea of the channel is to move the shrouds out in order to get better leverage or a greater angle to the masts.

I would fill the holes, file slots and cover the edge as Druxey showed.

[Captain Al]

Thank you all for your advice.  I think I'm going to take it.  Filling and filing is the least intrusive and then I'm free to 'build' the deadeyes and stropping off the ship and probably do a cleaner job of it.  I'll post some pix when I get to this step.  Thanks again all.  MSW rules!

[mtaylor]

Al,

File first.  then use the filing dust and  a bit of glue (carpenter's) and water, make a slurry to fill the hole.  Then when that's dry, sand the channels. If the holes need filling some more, add more slurry. 

[Captain Al]

No need to collect more walnut dust....I have about an ounce of it from my hull sanding.  I've never really gotten good results though using it as a filler.  Maybe I'm using too much glue and not making the stuff thick enough.

[mtaylor]

Use a mix.. about 50/50 of water and glue.  Then just make a sloppy paste with the sawdust.  I find that sometimes I have to do it a second time for coverage.

[allanyed]

Al,

 

If you are not happy with the filling and sanding after you try to fix one or more,  you can still remove them and throw them out and put on new ones.   Lots of opinions for you to consider, and they are all free    Don't forget, the slots will have slight angles to them to match the angle of the shrouds. 

 

Allan

[twintrow]

I generally will fill the hole with glue (not diluted) then take a little pile of the wood dust place it over the hole , rubbing it around, adding more dust as needed until the hole is flush.  Then lightly sand when dry. Takes stain well, and if the hole is completely filled and sanded smooth it is barely visible.

 

Tom

[jbshan]

Or you could try driving a dowel into the hole with a little glue.  If you're worried about staining end grain, use the glue on top of a countersunk dowel.  It'll all be behind your deadeyes and hardly visible, I would think.

[Captain Al]

Yes, that is a good way to fill holes.  After a lot of discussion and thinking about alternatives, I think I've decided to enlarge the existing holes just enough to let the chain slip through.  I'm following the advice Dan Vadas has given me on my Bounty build log.  He shows a way to make these chains from a single strand of wire -- meaning the hole doesn't have to be enlarged very much (if at all to tell you the truth).  He's flattened the end of the chain and drilled a hole in it to accept the connecting link to the chain plates.  I'm not going to worry about the fact that this will position the deadeyes in the center of the channel rather than out at its outer edge.  I think (and hope) it will make no difference in how the shrouds function.   They'll be strong enough to hold up in a storm (when its hot here I turn my fan onto high) so the only concern I have is that they may lie against the railing.  But this is what the plans show so we'll just see.  Thanks for your input.  Everyone has been great in their responses to this question.

[jbshan]

Cap'n, try one as the holes are and see what your clearances are, either to the actual mast or to a mockup, just to get the proper angle.  If they're rubbing, you can do as advised and move them out.  It ain't life and death you know.

[Captain Al]

You got that right jb.  Though sometimes I think by the time I finish this build I'll be nearing my time.