HMS Victory Bow Cross-section by bryanc - FINISHED - Panart - 1:78 scale

[bryanc]

Thanks Cobr@, that makes sense. To be honest I was just going by the colour and type of wood - so at least I'm not a total idjit! Anyway I've already fitted a few of the walnut planks and it looks infinitely better than it would have in lime!

[Elijah]

Good thing that's sorted out! I look forward to your second planking!

[bryanc]

Gun Ports?

 

The second planking is proceeding OK, but then, the first part is relatively easy. Obviously the thicker wood means bending is more problematic, but in all honesty my Modelcraft plank bender copes easily - perhaps a better purchase than I'd given it credit for (just don't leave it plugged in!).

 

Two things did occur to me; the gun ports positioning, and creation thereof. I thought I'd better have a look. Then came a shock; on placing the gun port template against the keel I was shocked to see it was miles out! Several of the ports would be fouled by the ribs!! Whichever way I positioned the template, and on whichever side of the hull, it was the same, the only way I could position the template and ensure (as far as I could) that every port is free of an offending rib, was position the template a good 1/2 inch out of its intended position.

 

My first thought was I'd seriously screwed up somewhere, but that doesn't really make sense as everything else fits perfectly. If the ribs were somehow out, the pre-cut decks wouldn't remotely fit, but they do, perfectly. Is this an imponderable, or will the truth be revealed later on, probably the latter, but there is little I can do but persevere.

 

The creation of the gun-ports now niggled more than ever, so I proceeded to create one! I was pleasantly surprised to find it was relatively easy, and more importantly the height etc was just right; the brass port frame temporarily in position really sets it off. With the upper (incomplete) gun deck temporarily in place, a gun (I previously created two, one of each of the two sizes) positioned in situ looks well.

 

 

 

 

But now back to the planking...

 

Bryan

 

[bryanc]

Hull Planking Complete!

 

I completed the second hull planking yesterday. It's far far from perfect as the photos reveal, however it's certainly the best I've ever done, so slow progress is being made in developing this modellers skills. No filling is required, which is remarkable, and as I intend painting it, some sanding has taken place, though very little. Instructions for painting and indeed for the wales which I imagine are fitted next, is very poor in the manual, so a lot of research is required. Also the copper plating will have to be completed before long, and that is going to be a challenge (I've never copper plated a hull before).

 

I'll prime the hull and paint as I see fit, first with the famous yellow ochre. Purists will say that the infamous yellow/black hull of the Victory was historically incorrect, and it was actually a sort of purple pink/black. I don't dispute it, but will go with the more celebrated livery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am still perplexed by the gun-port templates inaccuracy (or mine) and further work has revealed hull ribs are going to foul gun-ports somewhere on the hull no matter how its placed. Therefore some "creative" placement of gun-ports is required. One place this will be is forward on the upper gun-deck; in the kit the entrance to the "roundhouse(s)" are shown as quite prominent structures. I intend cutting these back or even eliminating them so cannon can be placed without interference. I'm not greatly bothered by this as they will be barely discernible anyway when the decks are built, but more significantly my much referred to McKay reveals the interior roundhouses are in fact little more than a door in the forward deck wall.

 

I'm attaching a photo of said template in position which will better explain my perplexity. (Then I'll await the more intelligent responses explaining my stupidity)!

 

 

Left. Showing the presumed intended template position, note the overhang to the right, and the gun-ports which will be fouled by the hull ribs.

 

Right. Showing the position I will use (subject to change). This is the minimum forward position whereby gun-ports will not be fouled by the hull ribs.

 

Now to paint!

 

Bryan

Edited March 26, 2016 by bryanc

[bryanc]

At last she begins to looks like a "Ship of the Line"

 

A mainly wet and miserable Easter has seen me confined to indoors, and quite a lot of work on the Victory has taken place. The fitting of the wales and of course that colour scheme and suddenly a proper ship of the line is taking shape.

 

I'm very unsure about the brass gun-port inserts, not the least because the real thing had nothing remotely resembling them. I'm not even sure they add anything, and as the starboard side of the ship has yet to have the gun-ports created, I think I'll tidy them up more precisely, paint the edging and compare the two sides. I think the brass inserts may well loose out.

 

 

Despite the gun-port template being wrong (and I'm becoming more and more convinced I was supplied with the wrong one) the re-positioning of them doesn't look too bad. Of some concern is the keel deck cradle pieces; I don't know how, but the more forward ones have ended up a little too low. The keel deck will have a big dip in it if I position it as is. I think I'll have to build them up a tad.

 

 

 

But first to cut the starboard side gun-ports, and then of course, the dreaded hull copper plating. I'm convinced there is not enough plates in the kit to complete the task, lets hope I'm wrong!

 

Bryan

 

 

 

[bryanc]

Hi Paul,

 

I'm not entirely sure I understand your question, but; the instructions are really poor (they assume a vast amount of existing modelling knowledge and are abrupt to the point of being rude!), there are no plans per se, merely line drawings of each deck towards the back of the A4 manual and a second A3 sized booklet with all the parts printed life size for identification purposes, and three line drawings which, while good as far as they go, don't go very far.

 

Oh and there's the gun-port template which is wrong! I may be incompetent, but even I would struggle to build the kit 15mm shorter than the template seems to be designed for.

 

On the plus side the materials are generally of good quality, some are excellent. Although in no case are they over generous in the amount supplied.

 

* I've just noticed you're building the Panart Gun Deck. I'm strongly considering that for my next project so will watch with interest. If you can grant me permission to see your YouTube "unpacking" video I could better comment on the Victory Bow Cross Section manuals as I imagine they are on a par with the ones for the Gun Deck.

 

Thanks,

 

Bryan

[bryanc]

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for unlocking the video. Bearing in mind I might be acquiring that kit myself, I found it well made and interesting.

 

The materials look to be of good quality and the manual and especially plans excellent, in layout at least. The manual like the Victory one would appear to be brief in written detail, but the photos better. The (huge) plans however look really good and detailed. Maybe in part this is down to the fact that the gun kit contains less parts, so is easier to explain? In answer to your original question, no, the instructions and plans for the Victory Cross-Section do compliment each other regarding materials provided, its just that neither are very good!

 

Returning to the high quality of your video, maybe an occasional video as the build continues? I for one would find that enormously interesting!

 

Thanks,

 

Bryan

 

 

PS It occurred to me some photos of the manual/plans might be of interest. Note that in the top left photo, only two of the paragraphs are in English, the top right photo is an enlargement of one of them. Also note that in those few words contain all the instructions for creating and fitting the wales, herpes(!), anchor rope fitting, drip moldings and preparation of the hull for painting!

[cobra1951]

Hi Bryan.

              Looking good, surprising what a bit of paint can do to change the whole look  

As for the gun port template i think you have done the right thing in moving it along a bit, not only because it misses out the ribs, but also if you left it and removed the rib parts it would seriously weaken the hull IMHO.

 

I too am building the same gun deck section as Paul is and you are correct in thinking the materials are good quality, they are.

What Paul says about the book versus the plans is correct they do contradict each other in places, you just need to read both for the part you are doing and decide which best suits the way you build. A bit like your template problem, but it's all part of the fun

[bryanc]

Paul and Bob, thanks for that info re. the Section Deck between Gun Bays (what a mouthful!). All taken to heart for when I make the purchase (or cajole one of my kids to!). I follow both your builds with much interest.

 

Bryan

[cobra1951]

My vote goes to cajoling the kids, you can blame them if you don't like it

[Elijah]

Nice painting Bryan! She's looking great!

[bryanc]

Oh that copper plating...

 

Well the hull is now completely copper plated. I wish I could say I enjoyed doing it, but I found it very taxing. Its not unlike planking the hull, and can be equally as frustrating, made worse by the minute size of the "plates". The completed job far from perfect, but I had one inspired idea; I was in the process of ordering more paints when I noticed the supplier had actual "copper" paint (Admiralty AP9126W Copper). It occurred to me it might well be useful for touching up the bad joints etc. I purchased some and in fact I ended up painting the entire plated hull with it! This served two purposes; it took the very unrealistic copper "shine" off the plates, and indeed did disguise a host of plating imperfections, especially at the joints of the keel, which now look almost good, but elsewhere to. It definitely helps my plating look a whole lot more presentable. The "copper" still needs considerably more "weathering", something I shall have to look into - not that I intend using my own urine to tarnish the plating as someone on here has suggested!

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of other work has also being completed, in all cases before I undertook the plating. This work is confined to detail below upper deck level as the kit has to be positioned upside down to plate the hull, and sits neatly on the top deck to do so.

 

The work includes a lot of detail on that forward deck area as well as the brick "hearth" for the stove. The latter was in fact produced by editing and printing onto card a screen-grab of some brickwork. I used a similar method (arguably not as successfully) to produce the round-house(s) and beakhead fascia as I was having horrendous problems trying to paint the supplied laser engraved sheets, completely spoiling them and certainly not being able to afford to replace them. (Have you seen just how much these things cost?!!!). Incidentally my research also revealed just what the roundhouses actually are, I'd often wondered at their function, but they are in fact officers toilets! The quaintly named "marines walk" was also added, though I doubt the marines ever ventured there during rough weather!

 

 

 

The observant will also notice the anchor ropes dangling from the ports. It was definitely foolish to do this at this stage, but I was concerned to get the ropes wrapped correctly around the riding bitts inside on the lower gun-deck, which I'd convinced myself needed doing before I advanced much further. I was quite concerned the supplied 1.25mm "rope" is much too thin considering the "real" anchor ropes were 47cms (19 inches) in circumference. However scaled up they are not far off. The observant will also notice the ropes protrude from the wrong holes (the outer rather than the inner hawse holes). This is quite simply because the inner holes are completely blocked inside by the woodwork of the keel assembly - and in one case by a snapped off round needle file I was using to try and widen the hole!

 

I was wondering why there are in fact two hawse holes on each side, but assume the outer one was either a spare for use in emergencies when the primary anchor rope was damaged, or for the use of the secondary "messenger"(?) anchor rope.

 

It may also be worth belatedly mentioning that, contrary to what I had previously decided, I did use the supplied brass gun port "edging" because they do "finish" the ports nicely. I have however painted them over to make them less obvious, and from the looks of the photographs will have to repaint them and in some cases the red of the interior sides.

 

Right, now to fit the herpes(!?) and start the top deck detail.

 

 

[bryanc]

Computer "wallpaper"

 

I just thought I might mention the wonderful new "wallpaper" I use on my PC monitor (I'm not at all sure that sentence is either grammatically or technically correct!). It is a 3D rendering I "acquired" from a website which chats about what looks to be a very interesting and certainly graphically brilliant nautical game; Navel Action. It can be found here; http://www.navalaction.com/#ageofsail

 

(This isn't an ad., I have no connection whatsoever with the game, I just thought I'd better credit it)!

 

Here's that image;

 

 

Its actually a remarkably accurate image in its detail, and helped me with a point or two, for instance cannon protruding from a port in the beakhead, which the laser engraving has, but the manual doesn't explain. It also shows the secondary anchor which the kit doesn't provide!

 

Bryan

Edited April 22, 2016 by bryanc

[cobra1951]

Hi Bryan
Yeah it's a great picture. I downloaded it a while back and made an animated signature with it and added rain

Edit : Added it to my signature on here now

Edited April 22, 2016 by Cobr@

[J T Lombard]

Bob:

Where did you download that picture from?

 

regards

 

J

[tomasg]

A super fast Victory, judging from the splashes!

[cobra1951]

Full Size photo is here http://i.imgur.com/iWLEBEB.jpg

right click on it, save image as

[bryanc]

You can also find the image linked on the page I mentioned and also here; images

 

Its the game developers page and also has links to two other stunning 3D renderings.

[cobra1951]

Hi Bryan

             It looks like a great game but i know if i started playing it it would be at the expense of modelling and we can't have that can we

[Elijah]

Nice coppering Bryan!

[bryanc]

Complete up to the Middle Gun-Deck

 

Well my great plans to continue to add to the top deck detail were neatly thwarted! I just couldn't continue without permanently fitting the top deck itself (not just temporarily as I intended). To do this I needed to complete all the other, lower gun decks, and to do this I have to fit all the guns. Which is what I'm continuing to do.

 

She's now complete up to the middle gun deck, and the upper gun-deck deck itself is about to be fitted, so a first - and last - lingering look at middle gun-deck before its obscured forever!

 

 

The work went reasonably well, its far from perfect, but looking "interesting", and I do like the bits of detail now present. Like for instance the anchor ropes wrapped correctly around the riding bitts (see I did need to fit the anchor ropes sooner rather than later), the cannon appearing to be fully rigged (although in reality only the "front" two on each deck are remotely fully rigged), the "brickwork" of the stove floor and the deck wall of the sick bay in position towards the prow end of the middle gun-deck. Note to self: I must remember to fit (and in a couple of cases "refit") the between deck stanchions!

 

          

 

The main problems I had were really unavoidable; positioning the cannon on the lower gun-deck (which was already "decked-in") was very tricky, and rigging all but the front two guns impossible. Positioning the most obscured ones was eventually achieved by tying string loosely around the business end of the barrel, threading the other end of it through the required port, liberally applying adhesive to the "flattened" wheels and pulling the gun assembly, upside down, into position with the tip awkwardly poking through the gun-ports, where the gun carriage was "righted" with my fingers, and the string removed! Almost a magic trick!

 

 

Now to assemble and fit the upper gun-deck. I must take care the "beams" I will create to go under the deck do not interfere with the stove and especially its wonderful "condenser" which I fear is very much at risk!

 

 

[bryanc]

Upper Gun-deck Completed

 

A relatively speedy update this time, but I thought it necessary to “celebrate” it as the next part of the build will be so significant and different; completing the quarterdeck.

 

The upper gun-deck build passed uneventfully, as it primarily consisted of positioning the six cannon and rigging them. The placing of the stanchions (which I acknowledge I have still to touch up with paint) really completed the deck build.

 

 

For those who may have had concerns over the stove and its condenser being ill used by the bashed  beams on the underside of the upper gun-deck, you can be assured through careful placement of the beams, they suffered no damage!

 

 

It really does look like it needs further detail, some sort of embellishment, but even the real thing only has a few buckets and gun tools in addition to the cannon, and of course a liberal sprinkling of the ubiquitous barrels. Of course there is also the small “rooms” to the rear of the roundhouses, but thanks to the faulty gun port template, and the necessity to move the gun ports forward by quite a way, I haven’t got room for them. I was going to place two smaller cannon pointing from gun ports in the actual beakhead, but the positioning of the most forward two cannon again means no room.

 

It did also occur to me to bash the actual (temporary) tables to swing between the guns, as exist in reality, but as these are fastened to the underside of the quarterdeck, which isn’t there yet(!) and would also need tiny benches to suit, both of which would stretch my model making skills rather too much.

 

Now to build and fit the quarterdeck!

 

Bryan

Edited May 9, 2016 by bryanc

[Elijah]

Nice job! She is growing quickly!

[bryanc]

Problems…problems…

 

The build moves on apace, and generally I’m pleased with how she’s looking. The near completion of the quarter deck itself (or forecastle to be specific I suppose), and the addition of the bowsprit, really makes it look like a ship – or part of one!

 

 

Of course there was bashing! I was surprised and disappointed there were no bow chasers catered for, so while I left the enormous 68 pounder cannonades where the kit intended them, I added two 12 pounder carriage guns facing forward ready to tear down sails and rigging of any ship the Victory may be chasing. In reality these certainly existed, but were set further back, just beyond the stove chimney. But that wouldn’t have looked so threateningly businesslike!

 

 

However there are annoying problems and issues as one might expect. The handrail on the port side is a mess; half the supports fell apart whilst being extricated from the laser cut sheets. However these can be easily replaced. The observant will also notice something not quite right with the middle of the three hatch covers; I ran out of parts, so had to use left over ones, which were one size too big! I don't like it, but couldn't just leave it open to the elements.

 

Of far more concern are the cat heads (not yet shown). In the proposed build they don’t actually do anything, they just sit there! I intend to make them functional, with ropes running from them supporting the anchor – they were actually responsible for raising and lowering the anchors after all. Easier said than done though, as they are rather small to go drilling holes in. Hmmm…

 

 

And then there are the “engraved sheets”. They are proving a nightmare. I had issues with the ones that were intended for the beakhead and believe it or not, rather than paint them, the intention is to stick similar ones on all the sides of two cat heads, not to mention all over the prow! You then presumably paint them yellow ochre and blue. Or just the blue bits. Or something. Predictably there’s not much guidance! I’ll probably mostly paint them anyway and forget the stick-on engravings, but again, they are very small and my painting prowess leaves a lot to be desired!

 

Problems…problems…

 

Bryan

[DaveRow]

Hi Bryan,

Just found your log on the Victory Bow section.

What a fabulous effort you have put in.

How you got all the decks fitted out ? magical.

 

Dave R

[cobra1951]

Hi Bryan

             Looks really nice :)

[bryanc]

Hi Bryan,

Just found your log on the Victory Bow section.

What a fabulous effort you have put in.

How you got all the decks fitted out ? magical.

 

Dave R

Thanks Dave, good of you to comment. I'm really "enjoying" this build, though as ever I'm working too fast!

[bryanc]

Hi Bryan

             Looks really nice :)

Thanks Bob, praise indeed from a such admired modeller! I hope you're enjoying your "double build"!

[cobra1951]

Thanks Bryan

[bryanc]

Things moving fast

 

I thought I'd better do another build update as things are moving ahead remarkably quickly and I'll shortly begin work on the main mast - foremast actually, but as its the only one in this particular model...

 

She's looking OK, and I'm fairly pleased. Not that she's remotely perfect by any means, and the photographs tend to emphasise the defects as photographs do, but I'm far from unhappy with the build thus far.

 

 

The manual leaves so much to be desired and its really telling. For instance there's discrepancies between what the manual suggests and the box cover illustration. One suggests the bowsprit forestay (the only one as far as the kits concerned) is situated below the bowsprit cap while the box photo clearly shows it well forward of it. I've gone with the latter as it allows easier fitting of rigging etc on the lower part of the bowsprit. A (belated) look into my McKay shows this was in fact the case. My McKay also confirms the presence of a dolphin striker (love that quaint if cruel expression) on the underside of the cap and a flagpole on top of it which the kit ignores completely. I have included the former, and will include the latter.  (Note the bowsprit forestay is present only in the last photograph).

 

 

I managed to construct and fit the catheads - and their supports - adequately, and even managed the decoration and the holes for the anchor ropes, so the catheads will be functional and not just ornamental. Some of the blue decoration is yet to be added.

 

 

Speaking of 'ornamentals', the so distinctive sweeping herpes decorations had to be constructed from 1mm brass strip and it was incredibly difficult to work and get those wonderful sweeping curves - and to bend it significantly in places. the brass had to be painted the familiar yellow ochre, which it didn't take kindly to! I managed it all after a fashion and it looks OK with a passing glance! Note the rather rough ends of the brass decorations will be covered by the figurehead (and that will be fiddly painting detail)!

 

 

Now for the construction that mast (temporarily fitted in the photos), and I have a feeling that to is going to be challenging!

 

Bryan

Edited June 1, 2016 by bryanc