US Brig Niagara by 6ohiocav - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64

[mikiek]

Yup - single to single.  Did the plans say single to double? Can't believe I would have missed that.

[6ohiocav]

This is what guided my decision to use a double block at the bulwark.

[GuntherMT]

Double blocks at the bulwarks match the tackle for the AVS, and both the AVS and Niagara plans were drawn by the same gentleman.

[mikiek]

This is what guided my decision to use a double block at the bulwark.

 

Makes me want to switch to the 1/8" blocks. Ordered some doubles this morning.

[mikiek]

Sorry for ranting but I can't believe I missed that. After all the times I've looked at that drawing

[6ohiocav]

I have missed more than my share as well, some mentioned on this log, but most buried in the confines of my own embarrassed mind. 

 

I believe the 3mm blocks I purchased from Syren are also listed as 1/8.  If you can handle the minuteness of these little buggers, I recommend them.  I believe the finished product is to scale and looks really good.  I am very pleased with the result. 

 

Functionally, I can see why there would be a double block instead of a single one at the ship wall. Moving these heavy carronades in and out, left and right, would be a real chore, and would warrant a heavier rigging.  The miniature double blocks also look real neat. There is no additional work, and the doubles are actually easier to handle - at least I have not dropped as many as the little singles.

[mikiek]

Way back I was trying 3/32, 1/8 and 5/32 blocks. 5/32 was obviously too big. Personally I like 1/8 the best, but got some opinions that 3/32 should be used. I don't have that much invested in the 3/32 rig so I will likely switch to 1/8. I made a quick tackle last nite with 1/8 single and double with .012 line. I like it.

 

Agree on the double block at the bulwark. The Syren version looks really good so I will move to that as well

[6ohiocav]

Just opened my package from Syren.  Thanks again Chuck.

 

Back to the Shipyard for some intricate stropping and seizing. Oh Joy!

[6ohiocav]

I put my nose to the grindstone and knocked out the rigging of my 18 carronades. What a challenge. The breech line was by far the most intricate. I had to seize a eye bolt on one end, then thread the line through the carriage and carronade and then seize the other end. I set up two vices to string the very short line, and did my best to wrap the seizing line. I actually got the hang of it after about 5 efforts. Then I had to install the eyebolts to the bulwark. I only broke of 2 guns off their bases. My thumbs are simply too big.

 

I still have to do the inhaul tackles, but thought I would wait until I install all of the other deck structures to make sure so that I can properly place the deck eyebolts. I have the blocks stropped and waiting. I also have to rig the two long guns. My eyes are shot, so that will have to wait.

 

Here are some photos.

[jbshan]

I put the ringbolts in the deck, but didn't rig inhaul tackles.

[GuntherMT]

The gun rigging looks very good.  Nicely done.

[mikiek]

That is a lot of work - as I am finding out. 2 questions:

 

1. How far out are the barrel/sled?

 

2. Are you still planning on placing coils around the gun?

 

Oh yes, well done sir! As you mentioned earlier, the doubles are what's called for and they just plain look better than singles.

[ca.shipwright]

Beautiful work. How do you not slop up the model as you work? It seems that mine is always getting touched up in some way or another.

 

 

To all:

If the gun crews load and service these guns via the muzzle, wouldn't the breach rope have to allow the gun to recoil far enough inboard that the crew could get to the muzzle? All of the models I have seen have a breach rope that barely allows the muzzle to clear the bulwark. What am I missing? Thanks

 

Regards

[mikiek]

You are correct ca.shipwright. The best way to determine the length of the breech line (at last for a carronade sled) is to retract the sled all the way inboard. The line should be tight at that point. Then if you wish to display the guns run out, the breech line should have some slack in it.

[6ohiocav]

Thanks for the input and encouragment Mike, Joel and Brian.

 

Mike,

 

I will be making faux coils - only need about 100.  I have not exactly decided how to do it.  I have seen some great techniques on this forum.  I will be experimenting with that later this week.  I have absolutely ditched the idea of coiling the rope tails on the ship. No room.

 

I have the barrels of the guns nearly flush with the outside of the bulwarks.  I have to assume the guns would be out further when fired, but I chose this position since it gave me the best look on the tackles. If I put them out further, the gun tackles would be so short, that the blocks would essentially touch each other. Note that the two forward gun sleds are pushed farther out due to the curvature of the hull.

 

The new problem I discovered is that all of my quoins that I produced are not high enough. I built them to size based on the plans. I am wondering if perhaps my deck sits too low.  A higher deck would elevate the back of the carriages and force the guns to point a bit downward and the quoins would fit. As I look at it now, there are going to have to be much larger.  I haven't decided whether to add a piece to the existing ones, or create new ones.

 

Mike, CA,

 

On my breaching line, I actually measured it to be correct.  Before I decided on the length, I pulled a sled all the way back on the carriage, and then stretched the line through the eyes to the bulwarks.  From memory, I think that was 3 inches. There is a lot of slack on the breeching lines.  Figuring that this was a heavy rope, I have tried to press it down to drag on the deck as best I can.  I used Syren rope.  Great product.  At this size, it won't hang on its own, but if you place it to where you want, it will stay there.

[6ohiocav]

Oh, and by the way, no matter how hard I tried, I did damage the guns, sleds, bulwarks and deck. I will have a lot of touch up painting to do, especially now that I have seen my photos.  I am amazed what the photos reveal. The worst thing was that I knocked two barrels off of the base while torqueing the breech line eyebolts into the hull. I still have to fix the stern most port gun.

 

A couple of pointers.  Make sure that the holes in the bulwarks that are accepting to eyebolts are large enough - even oversized. I opened my holes. The eye bolts have to slip in easily.  It is to hard to force them, and when you do, be prepared to do some damage when your tweezers slip off.  Even though the holes were larger, the medium CA that I used for attaching worked fine. None of the eyebolts were pulled out when I was tugging on the tackle ropes.

[mikiek]

Good tips Darrell. I guess your pix don't have the quoins. Your barrel height looks just fine in the pix. Are you saying the quoins don't contact the barrel when you slide one under?

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

I just went back through my log, and as I thought, I posted a picture of a completed carronade with a quoin in post #17.  And I think I figured out my problem.  Sitting on a flat surface caused the trucks to raise the back of the gun. With the barrel level, that causes the quoin to fit snuggly.  However, that is not how the guns sit on the ship. The plank sheer where the front mounts raises the front of the carriage to offset the height of the trucks.  My carriages on the ship are about level. Heck, my deck is actually 1/16 higher already.  If I had simply laid planks on top of the bulkheads, this would actually be worse.

 

Is the planksheer to high? There is no way.  It too sits on top of the waterway and on top of the bulkheads. It can't be anywhere else.

 

Because the back of my carriages are no longer raised, the quoins simply don't fit. I never saw this coming.  More redo work.

[6ohiocav]

Lesson learned - don't create the quoins until you have mounted the guns.

[mikiek]

Or - glue your quoins to the sled and barrel when you assemble the gun

[ca.shipwright]

Hi Darrell,

This is where my ignorance shows. I never realized that unlike cannon, cannonades are sled mounted, as opposed to carriage mounted. This sets up a little different rigging pattern. Do not the carronades have an inhaul line as do cannons?

 

Thanks for all the info.

 

Regards

[mtaylor]

Hi Darrell,

This is where my ignorance shows. I never realized that unlike cannon, cannonades are sled mounted, as opposed to carriage mounted. This sets up a little different rigging pattern. Do not the carronades have an inhaul line as do cannons?

 

Thanks for all the info.

 

Regards

 

Michael,

 

They do have inhauls.  Depending on the navy and even the captain, they might or might not be rigged until actually needed to run in a gun.  They were usually not rigged until the call for "action" except for maybe an inspection.  They would be something else to trip over.  

[jbshan]

Michael,

 

They do have inhauls.  Depending on the navy and even the captain, they might or might not be rigged until actually needed to run in a gun.  They were usually not rigged until the call for "action" except for maybe an inspection.  They would be something else to trip over.  

There might even be less inhaul tackles than guns.  They would share with each other.  Considering a 'gun crew of 10' might serve two guns (P&S), each needing 7, those two guns might share one inhaul tackle, though I haven't seen this anywhere in print.

They would be needed only to withdraw the weapon upon first loading.  Once fired, the weapon would recoil into loading position.

[mtaylor]

You could be right on that Joel.  As I understood it, it was needed for the first load (if the guns were unloaded) and then if there was a mis-fire or if for some reason it didn't recoil.  It would make sense to me, not have excess clutter on the deck.

[mikiek]

Michael,

 

They do have inhauls.  Depending on the navy and even the captain, they might or might not be rigged until actually needed to run in a gun.  They were usually not rigged until the call for "action" except for maybe an inspection.  They would be something else to trip over.  

What about rough seas (lakes)? If a gun were left untethered, how much pitch would it take before it started rolling?

[ca.shipwright]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for all your replies. It makes a lot more sense to me now.

 

Regards,

[6ohiocav]

It may only be a lake, but I can tell you from experience having been raised near Lake Erie, that it can be a beast in bad weather.  The lake is relatively shallow and when the wind picks up, you can expect high waves. There have been epic storms on the lake. Securing equipment to the deck was definitely a concern of Commodores Chauncey and Perry and their officers in the US Great Lakes fleet.

[jbshan]

Tackle would be used to keep the gun tight to the bulwark.  Mike's frapping would be involved.  Chocks under the wheels would also keep it from coming loose.  There are some illustrations in the literature.

[6ohiocav]

Long Gun Rigging

 

Before heading out for the weekend, I had the chance to construct and rig the two 9 pound long guns. Took all night.

 

My ship is now fully armed. Beware Commander Barclay!

[mikiek]

Man that must be a load off!

 

Seeing all that makes me think your pinrails should probably go in next. They have these wire supports under them that fix into the waterway. Before it gets any tighter at the bulwarks.