Royal Louis by fmartins - multi-media

[fmartins]

Hello from Monterrey Mexico. Finally another Royal Louis build!!!

 

I am having problems with the large scale one... can't imagine at your scale... hats off!

 

I wish you the best of lucks and will keep an eye on your build

 

Saludos

 

Hey Ulisses! Thanks for dropping by... Good to see a fellow Royal Louis modeler out there... 

[fmartins]

You can always score the planks to make individual ones if you wish later.

 

What do you mean by 'score'? Sorry English is not my mother language... Would it be like using a pencil or something to emulate the planks coming together?

[mtaylor]

What do you mean by 'score'? Sorry English is not my mother language... Would it be like using a pencil or something to emulate the planks coming together?

 

Take a knife and scratch a line into the wood to simulate two planks next to each other.  

 

As for the planking at the bow, she's French.   They over planked that area as protection from the anchor.  You might go check out this build of a 74 gun French ship.  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/327-le-fleuron-by-gaetan-bordeleau-124/  Around page 3 he's doing the hull planking you can see this.

[fmartins]

Take a knife and scratch a line into the wood to simulate two planks next to each other.  

 

As for the planking at the bow, she's French.   They over planked that area as protection from the anchor.  You might go check out this build of a 74 gun French ship.  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/327-le-fleuron-by-gaetan-bordeleau-124/  Around page 3 he's doing the hull planking you can see this.

 

Take a knife and scratch a line into the wood to simulate two planks next to each other.  

 

As for the planking at the bow, she's French.   They over planked that area as protection from the anchor.  You might go check out this build of a 74 gun French ship.  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/327-le-fleuron-by-gaetan-bordeleau-124/  Around page 3 he's doing the hull planking you can see this.

 

Thanks Mark! I'll check that build... from what I can see in the pics I uploaded this extra planking was pretty much flush with the wales right? About scoring, I was thinking to run a pencil at the border of the planks to simulate caulking, but if I score the planks I wouldn't be able to do the simulated caulking right? Any advice?

[mtaylor]

Scoring will give you an etched line.  It could be shaded with some colored wood filler (not putty as it stays soft) and then everything sanded.   Test this first.  

 

As for the pencil, a lot of builders use this method and it works well.

[fmartins]

Having relatives over can be really stressful... they don't offer any help and expect everything ready at hand... My helper (cat) flees every time she sees a child... but I still managed to finalize glueing the wales... 

 

 

The dreaded planking will start soon, I'm still working on how to do it. I'm thinking abou doing it a bit more in detail and with care from the first wale up. From the wales down (waterline to be morw exact) I will paint it like the parisian model. So, just a good sanding and some Tamiya putty will make it look good. Has anyone tried this putty with wood? With my plastic models it works wonders...

 

I'll also finish the upper decks and glue them soon... just as long as my relatives don't kill me first... :angry:    

[allanyed]

Fmartins

I agree with Mark, the second layer is the anchor lining.

Allan

[-Dallen]

Amazing project for first build. Scale and presentation are fabulous. This scale would be much to intricate for my eyesight, but a joy to follow.

[fmartins]

Hey dupress, it's certainly miles away from from being amazing but I'm glad you liked it. it's been a challenge so far, but it will become even more so as I'll have to add details on the deck and the rigging - which by the way I have no idea what to do... 

 

Allanyed,

 

Thanks for the input. From what I can see this extra layer of planking should be flush with the wales right? I'm searching for information in modelibg books but so far nothing...

[-Dallen]

fmartins

 

The wales always seem to be thicker than the rest of the planking. They are named in relationship to their location. as such, channel wales are where the channel fastenings are. The planks below this are the main wales. The plank below the main wales are referred to as Diminishing planks or strakes and the thickness reduces to the dimensions of the lower planking. This is pretty basic and I’m no means an authority.

[allanyed]

Fmartins

 

According to Goodwin, for British ships,  the lining planks were the same width as the planking in that area, and the thickness was equal to the difference between the normal planking and the thickness of the wales which make it flush with the wales, just as you suggest.   

 

Allan

[fmartins]

Allan, thanks a lot! With the French ships it happened the same right? I'm gonna double plank this area glush to the wales. As for the width of the planks I'm quite sure it won't be in scale... I don't think I'de be able to do it, not without some serious proper equipment...

[fmartins]

Ah, this Goodwin fellow you wrote about, are there any books from him you'd suggest?

[davyboy]

Ah, this Goodwin fellow you wrote about, are there any books from him you'd suggest?

 

Hi fmartins,  

 

The Construction and Fitting of the Sailing man of War 1650-1850 by Peter Goodwin. If you're interested there are 14 copies on offer at the moment by Abe Books starting at just under $50 US. Covers English Warships.

 

Dave   

[EJ_L]

There were differences in English and French construction in many aspects. For the purposes of this model though I would not worry to much about it.

[fmartins]

Thanks Davyboy, I'll take a look and buy a copy if in a good price. Unfortunately brazilian currency has devalued quickly and too much last year so even cheap books are not cheap for us anymore  :( ....

 

EJ_L, thanks again! I'll follow your suggestions!  :D

[mtaylor]

fmartins,

 

Yes, the second planking would be even with the wales.   reading the recommended books is a good idea but... there are aspects of the French ships that don't apply to the British ships and vice versa.  

 

You might look for a copy of zu Mondfeld's "Historic Ship Models".   While it has it's issues, it does give a good overview of the ships and highlights many of the differences between the various country's ships.  

[fmartins]

Thank you Mark! Now I'm certain to follow this direction... I'll also look for this book you suggested. By the way what kind of issues should I be prepared for?

[mtaylor]

Good question...    off the top of my head....   cannons were rigged differently, the caps at the top of the masts, the shape of the stern lanterns.  Also the quarter galleries.    There's unseen differences such as the way the framing was done.

[EJ_L]

A lot of variation was in the details that at first glance are overlooked. Hull shape, displacement, planking patterns, rigging practices, materials used and the unseen such as framing like Mark said. To most of us these things are hard to pick out but to a ship's Captain, these details could be noticed at great distance. They were some of the features that allowed them to recognize an enemy ship in disguise vs a friendly. 

 

A lot of combinations of different countries building styles would cross over though. Like most things, builders would see a ship that worked well and try to copy it to make it their own. Limited by the resources available to them due to either geographical locations, money or war, they would adapt to make it work. For instance, if they were having a hard time finding large trees for planking, smaller planks might be used or a mast may be built of multiple trees cut and bound together. Even "sister" ships could have differences in details if the first ate up more resources than the second.

 

Another factor was the architect. During a big build time, there would have been several architects who each would design and build slightly different. While staying true to the countries overall building practices, they would add their personal touches to the design in the ultimate goal to build the best ship.

 

This is one of the more fascinating features about this hobby to me. Each ship has it's own uniqueness in design, usage and history. Some vessels we know a lot about and others, even famous ones, we are still learning. While most of these things do not need to find their way into every model we build and honestly would be impossible at the scale you are currently building, they are still worth reading about if you are interested in ship architecture. English ship building practices are some of the most and best documented around but there are some good articles on French and Dutch building practices also.

[fmartins]

After days of non stop madness, my relatives are gone, and the shipyard activity is back on track! Only my helper (cat) is still a bit crazy after days running away from children trying to catch her...

 

However, on the other hand, my dissertation adviser wants a new corrected dissertation version by saturday so... it's gonna be a slow build in the next few days...      

 

In the next picture you can see the state of my little ship now... I've glue some balsa under the decks to support it accordingly (since my main method of glueing stuff to the sides is with rubber bands). I've also started painting some details in red as in the french museum model... Anything to stall the dreaded planking...

 

 

I've also started making the carriages that will be under the decks...

 

 

That's it for today

 

[fmartins]

Good question...    off the top of my head....   cannons were rigged differently, the caps at the top of the masts, the shape of the stern lanterns.  Also the quarter galleries.    There's unseen differences such as the way the framing was done.

 

Thanks for the explanation. That was really interesting! I'm loving doing this build. I'm taking so many notes about what not to do, and I really hope my next model will be better!! Thanks a lot for the help, encouragement and all the knowledge you're sharing with me!!

[EJ_L]

The work you are doing on this tiny model is truly excellent. If you can do this good of a job on something this small, I am willing to bet a bigger model would be even more amazing. Get that dissertation fixed so you can get back to building!

[fmartins]

That's the problem with doing stuff from memory instead of sticking to real facts... as you can see some details I painted red are actually black... so, tomorrow it's painting time again!!

 

 

What makes me mad is the fact that I had these pictures and instead of checking I decided to follow my memory... stupid me...     

[fmartins]

Well... details repainted. I'm still working on a sort of underlying structure made of balsa to support the deck... balsa also offers the advantage of being easily cut so it wont be too hard to cut the ports...

 

 

However, the decks on the parisian model are a lot darker with some reddish shades... Maybe I could use some dying? Any suggestions? I know now that I should've chosen a better suited wood or planned for dying it before... c'est la vie...    

[fmartins]

Finished some deck planking...

 

It is barely visible, but the ports were drawn (whiteish balsa - difficult to see)

 

I added a little piece to strengthen the whole structure

 

 

 

I think the ports can be better seen in this one... I also had to cut a bit to fit the stairs (a double staircase if I'm not mistaken)...

 

 

Well, I won't be posting much theses days... on top of my dissertations (which is still late by the way), I had a deep cut in my right index finger - doing something unrelated to model building but still stupid... Kids ot there, always use appropriate tools for specific tasks... and all the protection gear... I mean it...     

[fmartins]

While I cant really cut stuff (finger hurts like a m****r), I've been planning what I'm supposed to do with the side "railings" (again, don't know the name for that).  I mean these side thingies....

 

 

So far, the only way I thought about to attempt to simulate this (not with all the details mind you...) is by cutting to shape a very thin sheet of veneer add some vertical pieces of wood (again those pink cedar strips will come in handy!!) and add a top railing also in veneer (to try and keep it close to the scale)... se my incredibly detailed plan done on Paintbrush...

 

 

Here is a rough concept (it will be better cut to shape when my finger is not killing me)...

 

 

What do you guys think? Advice and ideas are always appreciated!!

[EJ_L]

Those side panels are called "bulwarks".

 

I think you have a good plan to build them. What you have designed is basically what most kit instructions would have you do so I think you are good to go!

 

Hope you finger heals well and quick. I've done similar injuries to myself over the years, hazard of my job and hobbies.

[fmartins]

Those side panels are called "bulwarks".

 

I think you have a good plan to build them. What you have designed is basically what most kit instructions would have you do so I think you are good to go!

 

Hope you finger heals well and quick. I've done similar injuries to myself over the years, hazard of my job and hobbies.

 

Thanks EJ_L. I kinda feel stupid with this cut in my index finger. I'm usually much more prudent and careful. But, that's life. It's something to remind me I'm never safe around sharp tools and that I need to be vigilant all the time. I'm excited to put this bulwark (thanks!!) idea in place but my finger is really bad the cut almost severed a considerable part of my nail...     In a couple days' time I'll be back...

 

Hm... now I'm curious what is your job? If you don't mind my question...

Edited January 17, 2017 by fmartins

[fmartins]

Well, my index finger is a bit sore, but I managed to move along a bit on the build. Not much, mind you ...     

 

On the matter of the bulwarks, I tried my plan as you can see in the next pictures....

 

I still needed to shape it better, and also marked where the top timbers (is it the name, EJ_L?) would be...

 

Since it is delicate work (for my abilities at least), I used a piece of double-sided scotch tape to keep it still. Those are the same pink cedar strips I used as wales...

 

I have also filled the spaces with balsa (to give it some more structure)...

 

One side ready and the other will be done at night when I'm back home... Now it's just a dry run, I'll glue them when planking, to avoid breaking it...

 

 

The "ugly" side (with the cedar strips) will be covered by planking... Now imagine the internal side painted red, I'll also add a bit of wood to simulate the waterways (again, is it the right term?)....

 

That's it for today folks!        

Edited January 19, 2017 by fmartins