HMS Victory by michael101 - Caldercraft - Scale 1:72

[michael101]

Thank you E.J

[michael101]

UPDATE :

after thinking a lot about the block fillers 

i have to post a little guide / tips how to build that fillers but firs of all i want to Thank to Matti Pilola ! that help me a lot with thinking and approve that guide  

i saw some tutorial and some comments over the internet , there is a lot of people that making the block fillers by pieces of wood (and not made them as a one piece )

that is the best way i have found , 

the only problem with that is : that they taking the angle of the curve with a plank and marking some card with that plank and after all they cutting the piece of wood as the mark on the card...

that method NEVER be a proper because when you will take the second curve it will never be the same as the first one !!!

and if you can make the same perfect curve as the firs curve , you not need a block fillers  

 

for that i was thinking to make the same curve from above to the end i mean to cut all the pieces on the same line : and for to be more proper its better to take the deck shape ...

in my case i took the shape of the last plywood filler that is supporting the gun ports template ..

i

 now after we have all the pieces ready we will need to mark lines on the bulkhead / keel (the lines that will be between the pieces that we made before )

and now we need to measure the lines ! and note them on list :

after we have that list we need to fit the pieces inside NOW IS THE TRICK !!!  

befor i will give the tip i will explain the problem with what we want ... for example  if we have a corner of 7cm by 5 cm and the piece that we cut before is 10cm by 8cm 

the firs idea is to cut 3cm from the 10 cm to get 7cm as the side of the corner but if it was a square we was doing that without any problem !in our case that we dealing with kind of "triangle" if we will cut it like that 3cm from the side of the 10cm we will lose also from the 8cm because we will touch the corner of the "triangle"....

 

i was thinking a lot what to do...

and thank God at the end i got the idea :

you need to make a ruler 90 degrees like a corner on some plastic paper or something transparent  and mark the measurements that we took from the lines like this :

 

 

than put the 90 degrees that we made on the piece that we need to cut in the same distance from the edge of the piece all over the line than mark the lines in the piece and cut (the best way is with table saw to get  straight line !)

than cut all the pieces as the lines and start sanding them as the shape ... (i was sanding them a bit before gluing them together and also i took about 1 mm more from the sides when i was measuring .. like instead to make the corner 7 cm i mark 71mm for getting space to sanding them without mistakes ...)

 

after all  this is the result for the first sanding : 

now the next stag:

block fillers for the second bulkhead: 

i was marking the lines outside of a strip 1.5 mm to get enough space to sand without mistakes :

after cutting and sanding the second block fillers :

i glue some small pieces of 5mm between the first and the second block fillers to get the exact same space as a bulkhead and i glue the blocks in the same position as they need to be on the ship and i start to sand them , in that method after sanding the blocks together i knew how mach i need to fair the first bulkhead ! 

note : first put the second block filler before sanding and mark the lines of the first bulkhead in the front and the second bulkhead in the back of the block

when you will sand that you need to be flash with the line of the back but leave about 2-3 mm out of the line of the first bulkhead ! you will need it for the next stage!!!

 

after sanding the blocks disconnect the little pieces between them and put it to the first and the second bulkhead check if its looks ok , if you made the sanding to deep don't worry you can move a bit the block filler down on the bulkhead and you will get the less space between the bulkhead to the filler ..

 

now after all we can start fairing the bow section !

but very important !!! when you fair the first bulkhead don't fair it all the way! leave about 1mm without fairing ! in all over the bulkhead also in the sauced bulkhead fair only half way ! with that you will have a guid how to fair the angel without passing losing the shape of the bulkhead , that also will help you to fare both sides identical !!! but if you will fair the bulkhead all the way you maybe will past the line! and you will lose the shape 

here is the final result :

 

 

 

 

[Robert29]

Nice work Michael.  You work very precise.  

[michael101]

Thank you Berto

 

[Seventynet]

Nice technique Michael! Looking very nice.

 

Ian

[michael101]

Thank you Ian

[pompey2]

Loving the work on your bow fillers, very nice

 

Nick

[michael101]

Thank you Nick , 

and nice to see you in my build log

 

[michael101]

Hello,

Until now i didn't glue the last bulkhead because there is no reference guide / line as the other bulkhead ...(i took the straight line on the other bulkheads flash with the deck but bulkhead no.18 not has nothing...)

 

i was thinking the reference line will be to put the last bulkhead flash with the middle support 

please correct me if i am wrong in that picture its not looks flash because there is a little wood that i need to sand (is the connection of the bulkhead to the plywood )

[Charter33]

Hi Michael,

 

Great work on the bow bulkhead fillers!

Yes, the top of the last bulkhead does need to be flush with the middle support as there is a deck that sits on top. I would wait, however, until you have also fitted the stern extension pieces 105 and 106 as the whole lot can then be sorted out, ie. sanded down level, together. Just one point to watch out for in the future - the piece that sits on top of this area is shown as part 443 on plan sheet 1. I can't find this in the parts manual which skips from part 432 to 445. I think, from having a very quick look, that '443' is actually 447, the poop deck.. I'll check this again later. If any other builders have come across this they might be able to advise us.

 

Cheers,

 

Graham.

[michael101]

Thank you Graham !

Excuse me for my poor english but when you say : 

ie. sanded down level, together. Just one point to watch out for in the future

do you mean to sand the top of the supports together for fitting the deck ? 

 

and about the 443 piece ..i think they did a mistake in the plan ..because in the other right corner they calling that piece as 447

but like you say maybe other builders can explain us something else  

[Charter33]

Yes - it was the 'stage 4' drawing that made me think that there had been an error in the top side view.

 

With reference to the sanding - glue the bulkhead in place, adjusting the central slot length might reduce the discrepancy at the top a little, and then once the stern extensions have been fitted wrap glass paper around a sanding block to keep it flat and carefully rub all the top edges until they are all the same height.

 

Hope this helps:

 

 

[michael101]

Thank you Graham!

b.t.w WOW you did a beautiful work 

[Shipyard sid]

Hello Michael

                       Yep all is correct as  Graham tells you.  The top of the bulkhead 18  must be level with the central support, and is also secured to the central support at the centre, as it is shown on your last photo. Loose fit parts 106  & 105 and you will see the the whole area should be level ( but will not be perfect ) Once again Graham is absolutely correct,  the poop deck fits on that area, and is incorrectly numbered. Make sure bulkhead 18 Is not twisted sideways as this is very important, and will throw the whole stern area out of position, then the ship is twisted  as soon as you fit gunport pattern 270.!!!!.  Bulkhead 18 also needs to be well beveled on the underside to accomadate the run of the planking and lower stern counter. You can bevel it (bulkhead 18) before you fit it in place and tidy the angle up when you fit the planking. And then Michael the fun begins. Catch you later, have fun. DAVID . NO TWISTING!!

 

 

[michael101]

Thank you David

[Robert29]

Very nice work Mike.  You have been given some good advice above.  When I did mine I did as Charter 33 advised you, I adjusted the central slot length to bring it in line with the top of the middle support. Any slight differences can be sanded down together with the stern extensions.   Also I fitted the stern extensions 105 and 106 before I fitted the bulkhead in place.  As David has already advised you, it is VERY important that bulkhead 18 is fitted exactly without any sideway shifts for the reasons he pointed out for you.  Keep up the good work Mike.

 

Another thing Mike,  have you thought of how you are going to display the finished model.  If you are going to drill holes in the keel to take rods, now is the time to do them. I used 3mm threaded rods and embedded a nut for each in the keel.  I also reinforced the sides by gluing  a piece of plywood on each side  where the holes were drilled in the keel.

 

Robert

 

 

 

[michael101]

Thank you Robert

about how to display the ship i think i will make a nice display , after all the ship will have a lot of weight and 2 rodes of 3mm inside a keel of 5mm  can make a damage to the ship Even if there is only one gram in one side more than the other side after some time you can get a damage , i think also for you , just think about that ... you worked a lot on that model and there is a lot of work to do, belive me you dont want to put your ship in a risk  there is a lot of beautiful stands that you can make ...

Best regards ,

Michael.

[michael101]

Berto , i have found a pictures of the stand display that i made for my firs project (H.M.S Bounty)

it was long time ago but still looks not to bad for firs project  (i didnt sand the edges for giving it a old looks ..)

[LON]

Excellent tip on bow fillers.  Thank you,

 

Lon

[michael101]

You welcome Lon

[michael101]

Hell friends

now im working on the fairing process 

and i have some point to talk about

the basic rule is to put some plank on the bulkheads and to see wetch bulkhead need to be sanded ...

 

the problem with that is : when you trying to curve a natural plank in one side the other side automatically will get some curve i mean for example if in the middle of the ship the line between the bulkheads is almost straight and in the stern there is a deep curve when you will curve the planks on the stern aria automatically just after that curve the plank will get some bow ! and it will not touch the bulkheads after that deep curve ! 

as the nature of the wood when you making some curve in the right side the left side will try to get the same angel as the right ....

 

so most of the builders just pushing the plank to the bulkhead for making the plank touching all the bulkheads ....

the problem with that is : sometimes you can push a little bit inside of the line then you will get an hole ... or sometimes when you pushing the plank a little out of the line you will have a little "hill" 

and its very hard to detect it with only one plank ! but after 4-5 planks (i mean after planking ) you will see the problem ....

 

im doing it in other way ..(its my firs time doing that "new" method )

im just puling the plank side ways i mean one hand holding the plank on the first bulkhead and the other hand holding in the last bulkhead but not only holding im also puling the end of the plank for avoiding all the nature spaces that created after the curve !

so if there is a bulkhead that is out of the line i can see that and than i can fix that bulkhead ! the good thing on it is that we using a wood plank and not a rubber or other material that can get stretched ! so if there is one bulkhead out or in you can detect it quickly and the test will give you 100 % of correction !

 

then when i will plank the ship i will work bulkhead by bulkhead i mean to glue and nail the plank on the first bulkhead then push it in to the second bulkhead with a little bit of puling for avoiding any nature space between the bulkhead to the plank ....  and to do the same process for all the rest of the bulkheads

 

i will be more than happy if you have some note or comment about that i wrote above

 

best regards 

Michael.  

[Shipyard sid]

Hello Michael

            It's me again !!    You have four gunport patterns to fit before you start any strip planking. You should find the fairing for those pretty easy, but be careful at the tight bend of the bow, the pattern will need to be soaked for a while at the bow end. When you look at the bulkheads that then need fairing it's only the first five that need a lot of attention, and the fairing should be really well done, so take your time. You must make sure the strip you are using to test your fairing lays flat on all the faired faces of the curvature, across all the bulkheads. The curve around the bow is very tight, and if the strips do not lay flat on the faired face of the bulkhead, the strips will buckle or even break. The fairing of all the other bulkheads is not hard at all. Once you get the four gunport patterns fitted you are off and running with fitting of the strips. No twisting of the strips !!!!!!!!!!! Let them run naturally and infil the gaps with strakes. I am sure you will have no problem. Off you go then !!!                 Good luck 🌝🌝 we are all rooting for you.     

best regards.  DAVID

                   

[michael101]

Thank you David for your advices  ! 

 

[Heinz6672]

Hello Michael, 

 

I think I understand your problem. But I have to tell you, that I don´t have the one solution. The one advice to do and everything is easy and no problem. From my own experience, I can only tell you that I have always tried to fix a plank temporarily and first nailed it. If the result pleases me, I have solved it again and then glued.

Nevertheless, it was sometimes necessary to solve them again later to make a correction. And finally, the finished hull is sanded and spatula. And sanded and spatula. And sanded and spatula. Etc Until the hull is nearly perfect.

So it does not have to be perfect immediately. In fact, I think you're thinking too much. As I said, the hull has to be sanded. And also the planks are not all 100% the same thickness. The second planking will also have to be sanded.

We have the big advantage that we build our model with 2 planking. The first planking really serves as a basis only. You can correct with wood mastic and sandpaper until the shape of the hull is perfect.

My advice to you is: invest more time in sanding and spatulation, and less time in every single wooden strip. The fine work comes only at the second planking. And this will take you soooo much time :-)

 

- Heinz -

 

[michael101]

Thank you Heinz ! 

That is true there is 2 planks so because that i not need to wary too much .. but i just tryingto do my best for improving my experience and learning how much i can ... 

i think the first plank is the time for learning because as you wrote the second plank will cover all the mistakes 

Best regards,

Michael.

 

 

[michael101]

Here is a little update of the stern block fillers 

to make these blocks was a bit tricky 

because there is 2 curves in a very small aria 

the planks must touch the stern at least in 30 degrees because you need after all sand the stern and making hem 3 mm include the first plank  !  So after making the curve between the bulkhead to the stern you must make a a other curve in the end of the first curve i mean in the aria were the block filler meeting the stern ...

by the way i didnt glue the gallery supports until now ... 

and after all thanks God im very happy that i didnt do it until now ! There was a very massive sanding work in that aria of the block filler so without the gallery suport it was easy to work and also by doing the sanding /fairing work without the gallery supports it keep me from making any damage to the gallery supports ! 

Cheers , 

Michael. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by michael101

[michael101]

Hello there

Just for the record ...

in the post no.3-4 i wrote about problem with bulkhead no.13 that i had to open the slot in about 1.5-2mm 

to push it in for getting that bulkhead in the same line  of the first deck as the other bulkheads!

after doing that i had to fair this bulkhead a lot at the downstairs

but now ... because i had to push it down i got an issue in the upstairs aria of that bulkhead ... now its a bit in from the line (about 1.5mm) ...

and i need to glue over there  a strip of plank and than to start fairing that aria...

my build going very slow for right now ... Because I finish the work every day very late

and to do that burring job of correcting and fairing the hull its not the best option after a lot of hours at work lol...

i know that after i will past this process i will found more hours to work with the ship

here is a picture of the bulkhead that i need to fill up :

now i need to find the perfect way of bending the plank as the curve of the bulkhead for gluing it into the side of the bulkhead 

ANY ADVISES WILL BE MORE THAN WELCOME  

Regards ,

Michael . 

 

[Shipyard sid]

Hello michael 

                      So you are going to fit a thin strip on the front edge of bulkhead number 13  so that the planking run smooth across the bulkheads with no dip. Make sure the bulkhead upright (top of the bulkhead ) of number 13 also runs smoothly along the other uprights, as the gunport pattern number 270 fits along the face of these uprights,    and check to make sure once again there is no dip. The positioning of gunport  pattern 270 is VERY important as all the other gunport patterns link up to it. Take your time Michael and just enjoy it.     Regards DAVID

[michael101]

Tank you dear friend  

[EJ_L]

Doing this part of the build right is a slow process but will pay out huge in the end. I agree with David in checking your alignment everywhere. It is not uncommon for a frame to have a dip on the lower hull and a hump on the upper side. Even the laser cut frames can have problems and so go slow and slide that plank up the frames from bottom to top and make sure they are all correct. Your planking will be a lot easier and will indeed go faster if you do. 

 

As for the actual bending, there are some good videos and discussion topics on the site for bending without water. I have not used this method much myself yet as I still prefer to soak my wood and then use a modified soldering iron to bend my planks. My biggest advice with plank bending is if you use water to soak the planks, be sure they are dry before installing. Water causes the wood to swell and when they dry they shrink. That causes gaps in the planking. As long as you dry them out first, and yes heat from a hot air gun will do this faster, you will be fine. 

 

Again, if you have not done so, check out the tutorials section as there are lots of good ideas, videos, and pictures there as everyone does this a little different. Good luck!!