US Brig Niagara by Tom E - Model Shipways - 1:64 Scale

[Tom E]

Evening, 

Hope everyone is well.

 

A little update tonight. I planked the Bow. 

Harder in my head than to actually do it. Didn't have to soak and bend anything. 

Just like you said Mike, the CA held everything fine. 

Gaps will get some filler. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hadn't checked the Bowsprit in a while. 

Fits nicely. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just as I had with all of the other bulwarks mid ship.

I used 1/32 square strips to frame the area to be planked. 

My "edging" at the plank ends could be better!

Hopefully some sanding will knock some of that down. 

 

 

 

With some sanding and filler the waviness should even out. 

 

 

 

 

This is her in all her glory so far.

She's starting to "fill in".

 

 

 

Tom E 

 

[mikiek]

Looks like mostly sanding to me Tom. Be careful with the filler. It's easy to fill all the grain and even the joints between planks. You can lose the "plank effect" if your not careful. It'll get too smooth. None of that work was done perfectly back then.

 

Something you reminded me of with your bowsprit. When you start putting all the cleats and stuff on especially at the foot, the bowsprit won't slide thru the opening anymore. Not enough clearance with everything glued on. So make all those parts, but be careful what you glue on. If the part is inside the bulwark, don't glue it until you have permanently fixed your bowsprit into the bits.

 

Looking forward to seeing some paint! Stock ip on the masking tape.

Edited January 15, 2018 by mikiek

[Tom E]

Evening, 

I have been in the Shipyard all day long! All of my chores were done yesterday, or finished very early today.

Laundry was put away, dishes were done, showered, appetizers were in the oven for the Patriots game. 

 

Ate, built, and was merry all day! 

 

The Pats won!!!!!! Super Bowl bound!!   

 

 

Anywho......

 

 

Time for an update.

With all this time in shop, I did get some things done. 

 

Time to plank the stern.

 

 

 

Just as all the other bulwarks. Used 1/32 square strip around the gunports.

Some stringers at the very top and bottom with smaller widths in between.

I didn't get the angle of the gunports as seen in the plans.

There mostly symmetrical......mostly.

I can live with it.

 

 

 

A little rough.

Sandpaper to the rescue.

 

 

 

 

The edges are kind of rough. 

The Fashion Piece should cover a lot of this. 

 

With things filling in, I can get an idea what my Counter area is looking like.

 

 

 

 

 

Inside the stern was the same.

Stringers at the top and bottom, with smaller width in between. 

I didn't go any lower towards the deck as this. There's a transition area that has different widths. I'm studying this area on the plans now.

The rudder comes up thru this area.

 

 

 

Bow to Stern.

 

 

 

Stern to bow.

She is filling in nicely.

 

 

As for the "paint" question. Sheeesh! I never thought I would get this far! 

I have been using the ME paint set thru out the build, will continue to.

 

But, that yellow they include is way too much.

In research I have found some possibly better substitutes.

 

At Woodcraft, they sell an "Old Fashioned Milk Paint" in either Marigold yellow or Mustard.

I'm leaning towards the Marigold. 

I will also use a black and green paint for the body of the ship. 

 

Its sold as a powder, add water and it makes a pint.

I've never used this before, it intrigues me.

Looks like its used for antique furniture and the like.  

 

This will be all hand painted, no airbrush.

Want one, never used one, but not in the budget right now.

 

Go Pats!

Tom E 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Tom E
wrong photo

[mikiek]

Did I mention get lots of masking tape? You should also consider sticking with the brand/type of paint you are already using. Especially since you seem happy with it. By type I mean acrylic, enamel or some other oil based paint. It's best to make a choice and stay with it.

 

I would suggest mixing a color. I used Buff as the base. You can color that with yellow (use up some of what you already have), brown and lighten with white if needed. Dijon Brown I called mine. It really is the color of the mustard. Mix with an eye dropper and/or measuring spoons keeping count and taking notes so that you can make more if needed.

 

You do realize of course, as soon as you switch the yellows and get it painted, the red is going to almost glow in the dark. So start planning what color you will be repainting that

 

Be looking for some clear paint as well. You will use this to seal up the edges of the masking tape so paint doesn't wick under. I did mention you will need masking tape didn't I?

 

Looking at your bow to stern pic made me think of something. Your mast steps. I'll suggest you get the mast feet prepared and tested out before you plank your deck. You will have limited access to the braces after that. Are you planning on making your own spars or using the ones from the kit?

[Tom E]

Mike, 

 

Think I'll get some masking tape!

I have some, but I've been wondering if painters tape will work, or should I invest in something like Tamiya's masking tape?

I do like the different sizes that Tamiya has. 

 

As for the paint, I will try and blend something with what I have. Anything that's saves me some cash is worth looking into.

 

As for the spars, I'll be using what's supplied in the kit.

I was wondering when I should start playing with that. 

 

Tom E  

 

[mikiek]

The Tamiya tape is really good. It's flexible, it cuts easy and the adhesive is good but it doesn't leave spots. Plus they come in plastic dispensers similar to scotch tape. Get yourself a couple of the smaller widths - especially the narrowest - sorry I don't remember the measurement but it's about 1/8". I think I went thru almost 2 rolls of that. The gun and oar ports will use up a lot. For large areas the typical blue masking tape works.

 

As far as your paint,I think you will get a color that is more pleasing to your eye if you mix it. Not sure that you'll save any money. Don't forget the clear paint. After you lay your masking tape you should paint a band of clear over the edge of the tape. When it dries it seals the tape edge so that your colored paint doesn't wick up underneath - which it will try very hard to do. The Niagara colors contrast a lot. A bit of yellow or red on your black, green on the red. Even a tiny spot is going to be very obvious.

 

If you do go with the kit spars make sure they are straight. Dowels have a tendency to warp. They appear to be straight grained but most are not. Your option there would be to get square sticks of various sizes and shape them yourself. It's more work but with something like boxwood, you'll know in 5-10 years your masts won't be drooping over to one side. I'm working on a sectional kit with some seniors and right out of the box dowel that is the main spar doesn't even roll.

[Tom E]

Evening, 

Hope all is quiet in everyone's Shipyard tonight. 

Work got in the way a lot this week.       Healthcare......it never stops!

 

A lot of chores were done as well in preparation for next weeks Super Bowl!

Go Pats!!!!!! 

 

Some was done in the Shipyard.

I seem to be staying away from the superstructure. I'm doing prelim measurements and test fittings for the Counter area and the transition area from the deck up the transom. Also wrapping my mind around the fashion pieces. 

I have really been studying John Flemings (Texxn5) build log. He goes into some depth in this area, its been a great help. 

 

So I do what I think a lot of us do.......side projects!

Mine are the guns right now.

The Masts have also been made a priority, but are purely in the reading/measuring/research stage right now. 

 

 

I do really like the look of these cannon.

I had partially built one already. so I started the other. One could dry while I worked on the other.

Busy hands, busy brain

They clean up easily. They are a white metal.....Britannia?....Pewter?

 

 

 

A little bit of assembly line here, there is only 2 total guns anyways.

1 cannon gets primed, 1 gets the first coat of Gunmetal/Iron black. 

1 carriage gets the iron rod thru it, the other, the flat piece of wood resting on the axels and the iron rod. 

 

 

 

 

Eyebolts next.

I'm still perfecting my technique!   

 

Admittedly, there not the best looking things and are probably out of scale, but I'll get better. 

There's plenty of them on the carronades so I should be an expert by the time I'm done with them all. 

 

 

Everything gets a coat of primer.

I mean everything. From cannon, to masts, to bulwarks.

 

When in doubt, I prime it.    No matter what!

 

 

Below is the current state of affairs.

Looks like a model shop after an earthquake hit!

The place needs a tidying up. 

I'll have guests next weekend for a Super Bowl party.

Good food, good beer/spirits/entertainment and a HD TV near by for the big game!

 

 

Tom E 

 

[Jim Rogers]

The cannons look great. I use the gunmetal then add a very dry brushing of steel to the high points. Really makes them pop. I love the lines on this ship. You are doing a great job.

[mikiek]

Tom - the barrels from my kit were Brittiania (similar to pewter) but they look a little different from yours. There is a pewter blackening liquid if you're interested. The thing I have found with blackening is the stuff will come off as you handle the barrels. Once mounted to the carriages the only way to touch them up (and you will have to) is with paint. So why not paint them from the start. If you do blacken, a covering coat of matte lacquer will help protect the black.

 

If diversions are what you need, you should start thinking about the gun tackles. There are several ways to do those, so that's a decision you'll have to make. Also, depending on your ambition there will be either 4 or 5 tackles per gun. Times 20 and you have a lot of tackles to make. Plus 6 bulwark eyebolts with rings per gun. I ended up making a gun station out of some scrap, with a gunport and eyebolts (there's pix in my log). This came in handy both for testing how to make the tackles and also when it came time to start making them. Oh, and don't forget the hooks for the tackles. Do the math,  20 guns x 4 tackles per gun x 2 hooks per tackle. You can make them but at that scale they're pretty small and it's difficult to make them consistent. Hooks were one of many things I picked up from Syren Models.

 

Many things to think about if you are wanting to avoid the big tasks. I laugh when I say that - the guns took longer than any other task. I believe from start to finish it was over 2 months. But they will put a smile on your face when they're done and on deck.

[Tom E]

Thanks for the kind words Jim!

 

Mike, I was wondering about the hooks at Syren. Was wondering about the size.

They work well on the Niagara?

No blackening chemicals for me. I've always painted. Maybe in the future when I gain some more experience. 

 

Tom E

 

 

[Jim Rogers]

I use the Syren 3mm and 4mm hooks and they work well BUT I found it easier to thread by drilling out the hole a little and they have this hook on the end that makes it hard to connect to an eyelet so I clip it off. But that is just me. 

[mikiek]

I would seriously consider them. Mainly for the consistency. I can make pretty good hooks. Sometimes even hooks as small as you will need to stay in scale. But 200 identical hooks?  Not a chance. Of course there are people here that can make their own. Usually on larger scale builds.  At 1:64 a lifelike hook is pretty small.

 

I used 3mm for the guns. The first time I ordered them Chuck had the brass ones but also some made out of what seemed like plastic. The plastic ones were awesome - a little bit of relief gave them more of a 3D look and they were black so no painting required. He lost that manufacturer and apparently nobody wants to make them as the plastic gives off noxious fumes during the etching process. The brass ones are OK but not like the others.  And I agree with Jim, they will need some manipulating. I didn't find threading them too bad but hooking them into rings and eyebolts proved difficult sometimes. Two things that I ended up doing

 

1. Spreading the hook open a little extra. Of course you'll probably tear a few doing that.

2. Use rings on all your eyebolts, both on the carriages and the bulwark. Trying to hook into that smaller size eyebolt will drive you mad. If I recall I ended up ordering rings that were the next size up from those tiny ones that come with the kit. And rings are typically used with eyebolts in the real world.

 

One other thing I'll just put out there (and watch out for Syren fever) the Syren blocks look a heck of a lot better than the MS blocks. Same story with Syren's ropes. I'm bringing that up here because you probably want to go one way or the other and not mix them. You're about to the point where you will begin rigging (yes making all those tackles is rigging) and you will need rope & blocks to make them. So there's a few more decisions on your plate. I went with all Syren ropes and blocks. Hearts & deadeyes too. I have no regrets with those decisions. If you are not familiar with Chuck's products, check around. A lot of people use them, particularly the rope.

 

And I have absolutely no affiliation with Syren or Chuck. They're just dang good products that will add to the look of your boat.

[Srodbro]

Allow me to second the comment about Syren rope. I’m not nearly in the same league of most modelers in these forums, but I will say I consider Syren rope as important to my modeling as my Dremel tool. 

[Derek C]

I also have a gaggle of syren rope and blocks they are great .

[mikiek]

Right on Steve - I could dribble on about Syren products all day, but I do my best to keep my comments objective and not sound like a commercial.

[Jim Rogers]

The first thing I do now when I open a kit is throw out all the included rope and blocks and begin ordering Syren Ship Company after markets. They DO make a difference. My only issue is that I hate waiting for Chuck to replace stock 😂......Like now, waiting for 1/8 singles. And don’t forget the specialty block kits hearts, fiddles and strapped blocks. I use the inner strapped Blocks for my anchors and I don’t care if that is historically accurate or not because man they look good with and anchor attached.

[Tom E]

Thanks fellas, I appreciate all the input!

I have to re-think those hooks. Maybe I'll order some and see what happens. 

Last I looked, they were about $10 for 125. That's about a $20-$30 investment that seems well worth it.

As for the blocks and rope, I was going to replace all those from the start.

They look so much better than what's supplied.  

The blocks in the kit look like they went thru a wood chipper!

 

Tom E

[mikiek]

I don't think you will be disappointed Tom. 2 packs of hooks should do you. I didn't use them for anything else. Hang on to the kit rope. There were several places that I did scrimp and use it. Mostly for inside runs near the masts. You'll find you have quite a few runs that start by going up a mast thru a block or something and then down to the deck. A lot of those could be kit rope.

 

Jim is right about having to wait sometimes. I've always tried to buy some extra when I could so I would have it for that next build. I've probably got 2 or 3 builds worth of rope & blocks. Of course I'm kind of a hoarder

[Tom E]

To be honest, I was thinking the exact opposite.

I was waiting to buy the blocks and ropes because I didn't want them just sitting.

My weather up here is either dry and cold then moist and hot, and can go from hot to cold within hours. I thought the longer it sat, it may degrade/warp/change.

I'm not calling Syrens products low grade, oh God no! Its quality product, that's easily seen.

But rope is fabric and blocks are wood. All subject to weather/temperature/humidity. 

It seems my thinking was wrong?!

I realize the ones supplied in kits may sit for years, but that may explain a lot. 

 

Earlier, Jim mentioned waiting for the 1/8ths to be in stock. Sure enough, that's what I need, and all the other sizes as well. 

I need to place an order! 

 

I noticed some of Syrens rope aren't the exact size called for in the plans.

When replacing rope with approximate sizes, do you round up or down for sizing? Or is there another method for sizing?

 

Tom E

 

[mikiek]

General rule  - Do not size up your rope over what is called for. I bucked that on the guns in a couple of places. But then I also went against tradition on the tackles and frapped the excess rope instead of making coils on the deck. Just a personal preference.  The mock up gun station I built was solely for the purpose of trying different combinations of ropes/blocks/eyebolts/rings  etc.  IMO some of the rope sizes called for looked too small for my taste - kinda wimpy.  I played around with that for several weeks before moving on. Page 11 of my log is where all that madness started. The photo at the very bottom of 11 was the look I was trying to copy. The adventure continues for several more pages. I will suggest you consider making the mock up. It took maybe 15-20 minutes. Even if you don't go thru all the part sizes, it will give you an idea about placement of the eyebolts plus you have some extra room to work in. And your deck doesn't have to be finished before you start experimenting.

 

As far as storage, that's your call. My take is rope will not be affected by time or weather. The blocks are boxwood, a much denser wood than basswood. They come in mini zip lock bags and that's how I store them. Again, I don't believe they will be bothered by the elements. After all, we are expecting all that to hold up for years and years on our completed builds. I joked about being a hoarder but it's true. My biggest pet peeve in this hobby is running out of parts. When you're on a roll with something like the gun tackles, the last thing you need is to run out of rope or blocks. Then you log in to order and see what you need is out of stock.

[Tom E]

Evening, 

I'm starting a list for a Syren order. Not made of money, so It may take a bit to get what I'll need. 

I can see some of my tax returns going towards the cause!

Meanwhile, I did get some done in the Shipyard. 

I planked the angled area in the stern where the tiller/rudder will be.

 

I don't think I'll ever have enough clamps.

 

 

Inherently some gaps formed.

That big one smack in the middle was easily filled with a shaped 1/32 sq strip.

The gap 3 planks down closer to where the deck will be, is the edge where the deck meets the planks.

The wood that's on the very bottom is the strip I installed with the stern timbers. It was also the only thing that lined up on those timbers. 

 

My edges will need some filler.

 

 

I also worked on the counter area. 

Below is the basic planking for this area. 

I'll trim it appropriately as I work in this area and work in the fashion pieces.

 

 

Below is after some trimming, now needs some sanding. 

 

 

With some sanding it shines up a bit. 

There's a hump in that big plank in the middle by design.

I want to keep that just a bit thicker than the rest and will even it out later. 

 

 

Tom E 

 

[mikiek]

Tom - 2 observations

 

1. The transom ports in the plans sit a little bit cockeyed. They slant outside in a little. Not a big deal. No one but another Niagara builder would know.

 

2. I think the outer transom planking should overlap the bulwark planking rather than bulwark over transom. Part of the purpose of your fashion piece(s) is to cover that joint. You will be putting those at the rear edge of the bulwarks - on the side. The end of the transom planks should butt into the fashion piece(s) and the end of the bulwark planks should be completely covered by the fashion piece(s). It will look a lot cleaner when all is said & done. Keep in mind the fashion piece can be made up of more than one part. Those parts can be 3D instead of just flat. Kinda like the piece on the left.

 

 

Here's what I did on mine.

 

 

 

 

Don't forget when you order blocks for the tackles you need a double and a single for each one.

 

[AON]

Regarding not enough clamps: I know the feeling well, even when you have enough they are the wrong size.

 

Regarding fit and cockeyed: I am sure the actual ship was not perfectly symmetrical, and they had gaps by design that were stuffed to make her water tight. 

 

Sometimes I believe we strive too much for perfection.  It is difficult enough just trying to be human.

 

She looks beautiful to me.

[Tom E]

Thanks for the kind words Alan!

Thanks for the likes MSW!

 

Mike,

On the slant for the transom ports, that's my own doing. I was so gun shy about this area.

I had seen that slant in the plans and on other builds. I had also seen some beautiful outcomes, as well as outcomes, that I thought, had too severe of a slant.

When I started this area, I would have been happy with something in between.

I went real easy when planking, and wanted to keep things more symmetrical than having that slant.

With my limited experience if I went head on into having that slant, my ship would probably look like it was winking at ya!

In the end, I think she looks pretty sharp with better symmetry/alignment than the slant.

 

I made a test Fashion piece last night. I tried multiple pieces to form the curve around the counter area.

Oh man, I'm really hoping the second try is better!

This thing looked like a busted stick stuck to a ship!

One thing I realized, where I sanded down the corner of fashion piece that sits on the ship, was not deep enough.

This thing looked like it would clip another ship just floating by!

That's this weekends project.

 

Tom E 

 

[JesseLee]

I agree with Alan. We try to make our ships perfect and if we were to really examine the real thing they were not so perfect or pretty. Seeing them far off must have looked beautiful but if you walked onto the ship you would see how rustic and raw they really were.

 

Jesse

[Tom E]

The old saying......"good from a far but far from good"

 

Tom E 

[Jim Rogers]

My benchmark for how my ships look is simple... If the Admiral likes it it is all good.

[mikiek]

Tom - I thought I had a photo of my trash pile of fashion pieces but didn't find one. It took many tries to find one that worked. And I imagine each one is unique because everyone does that area of the boat differently. If I gave you duplicates of mine, they probably would not fit.

 

Think out of the box. It doesn't necessarily have to be one piece. You might consider dividing those corners of the boat into areas and make a part for each. When you glue it all together, fill it and paint it, it will look like one piece.

 

Looking at it from the side, you know the general shape so start there. Maybe start with  a 1/4"x1/4" square stick and do some carving. The trick is getting it to lay flat on the side planks whose surface typically has some curve to it. Typically we bend pieces around a curve. You might have to carve the curve into your piece this time.

Edited February 3, 2018 by mikiek

[Tom E]

Evening, 

 

Well the Super Bowl didn't go the Patriots way, Oh well.......Go Bruins!   

 

I did get some done in the Shipyard. 

Got the Fashion pieces done. Man I was nervous about these things. I tried several times.

 

Below, I started with the straight pieces, easy enough.

 

I couldn't carve too much out from where they meet the hull, I just kept splitting them.

My fingers learned that lesson. Must have stabbed/sliced myself a dozen times.

 

Nice easy pieces. They protrude a bit from the hull, but that should come down with sanding.

Wouldn't wooden arms that hold the small ship (yawl?) that hangs over the back come thru this area?

Maybe a I can do something there to "blend" them in better.

 

 

Below is one of my first fashion pieces.

I had to bring down the amount of pieces used for the curve.

It was getting out of hand!

 

 

Below, you can see I got it down to 3 pieces, instead of 4-6 pieces. 

 

 

In the end, one side had 3 pieces, the other had 4.

 

 

 

From the dings in that wood, it looks like its already taken some cannon fire!  

 

 

 

 

Mike, In the end I did what you mentioned.

I carved them, with some filler to help.

A Dremel helped as well!!

I went a little heavy with the sanding in some areas. I can live with that, and the paint will cover as well. 

 

 

The Port side has been cleaned up, Starboard was next.

With more sanding they shine up.

 

Tom E 

 

[mikiek]

A good experience in trial and error. One of many you will encounter with this build. I think what you have will work. I like that you wrapped around the corner and were able to cover the edges of the transom planks. That is the purpose of those pieces - to cover the inevitable ugliness of that corner joint and seal it up. It's almost like a corner molding we use on a house.

 

I wasn't sure what you were asking regarding the yawl? The rear davits will be a piece of wood mounted towards the end of the side hand rails. They will extend off the stern. No real relation to the fashion pieces.