HMS Victory by William-Victory - Heller - PLASTIC - First ship build

[William-Victory]

So a little trimming and touch up on the ‘tar’ and I’m about to attach to the bowsprit maybe tomorrow. 

[Malcolm Brown]

On 1/19/2024 at 7:30 PM, William-Victory said:

Now you see it. A half hearted push to make progress. 

Cutting corners and haste felt good for a little while.  Forgetting to correct things that were important before proceeding etc. 

 

Disregarding my studies in ‘Dafinology’ I pressed forward.  To this point….
Now you don’t.  And so begins my work again. 

I couldn’t understand this brass wire.  Then remembered that the warped plastic required temporary pinning to hold until the glue set. 

I’m wondering now what will happen when I pull it out. 

 

Hello William, I am new to MSW and just launched my own build log for the Heller 1/100 Victory. Interestingly, I am exactly at the same point as you in my build. In more ways than one 😁 I too had rigged the bowsprit according to the vague Heller instructions and some homemade rigging bits (that was about 15 years ago). But now, as an ‘enlightened’ builder, I have removed all of this and am proceeding as you are with the Dafi supplied knighthead, hearts and a new set of walnut blocks. I will follow your build with intense interest. I also have a few questions that will follow…

[Malcolm Brown]

On 2/25/2019 at 2:12 PM, William-Victory said:

There is a significant advantage using Wire instead of thread for small scale seizings!  I worked for a whole day using the Uni-thread fish tying thread!  In the end the cats got it and its gone.

So today I decided to try the alternative, wire.  Within 10 minutes I had this block stropped to the Jib Boom-Topsail yard! And its my first successful work with Fly tying materials.  I'm really pleased with the outcome. 

 

To clarify, this wire you are using is for fly fishing?  I can see the obvious advantage of using wire since thread has a tendency to relax right at the critical moment when you’re trying to make a tight fitting. Is this something you would buy, say, at Cabelas?

[Malcolm Brown]

On 2/9/2024 at 5:18 PM, William-Victory said:

So a little trimming and touch up on the ‘tar’ and I’m about to attach to the bowsprit maybe tomorrow. 

To confirm, are each of the 4 hearts used for the bowsprit shrouds supported by a single collar? The above photo with unequal lengths (also described by Dafi on page 53 of his revised instructions for resin fittings and Longridge on pg 226) certainly seems to suggest this. Reason I am asking is the pdf file previously posted in comment #83 shows a single collar supporting both port-side and starboard-side hearts. As has been commented on already, different sources may sometimes offer conflicting perspectives so rule of thumb - default to Longridge. And Dafi, of course 😁

[William-Victory]

Not what I am seeing outside of my kit instructions is that they have their own long strops lashed on the topside of the bowsprit.

  In my instructions it is illustrated using a single collar and the "hearts" having a becket on only one collar 3 hearts.  All the stress would be on the single collar.  Doesn't add up to me.  I don't see in Longridge that its a single collar.  If you do tell me the page please.

 

[William-Victory]

11 hours ago, Malcolm Brown said:

To clarify, this wire you are using is for fly fishing?  I can see the obvious advantage of using wire since thread has a tendency to relax right at the critical moment when you’re trying to make a tight fitting. Is this something you would buy, say, at Cabelas?

I got mine at Walmart?  The wire is cool and has it's uses. Maybe use it for everything?  I picked up some regular ( I think its regular) string-like flimsy stuff too.

Now.  Im not a follower. That said, I finally adopted the white glue and black pigment method Dafi uses.  With that white glue (maybe some micro dots of CA) the flimsy string is way more forgiving and it doesnt give you any CA Haze on the parts.

Also what I do if you are interested.  When I am seizing lines I do an single overhand knot with .2mm I think, that draws the strops tight to the bottom of the heart, or block,  Then keeping the simple over hand knot tight I let capillary attraction draw thin CA into the knot just a little.  Not soaking the overhand knot is a challenge.  I just try to get the CA close enough to barely secure it.  If I fail it becomes part of the seizing. Just use more fly fishing line to make up for the thickness and blend it in. Otherwise there is the option to cut off the .2mm line when your done.   Its an experiment in technique.

 

How bad was the warpage in your kit?

 

 

Edited February 22 by William-Victory

[William-Victory]

YYYEEESSSS!

Thimbles baby!

Forestay hearts!

Dont call the Gestapo FBI please. “Target Lock” is my cheat sheet for DCS world A-10 😎

[dafi]

The old Warthog 🙂

 

Just a comment for the collars of the hearts. Even though some assembly instructions indicate all 3 Harts together in 1 collar, it schould be 1 collar for each single heart, means 7 altogether. This is historically correct and believe me, even for the model building much easier than fitting all in 1 collar while levelling out the lengths properly 🙂

 

XXXDAn

[allanyed]

Hi William 

Your work at this scale is quite impressive.  Regarding the collars, am I correct in thinking that they are main stay and main preventer stay collars, not forestay and fore preventer stay collars?

Thanks

Allan

[Malcolm Brown]

4 hours ago, dafi said:

The old Warthog 🙂

 

Just a comment for the collars of the hearts. Even though some assembly instructions indicate all 3 Harts together in 1 collar, it schould be 1 collar for each single heart, means 7 altogether. This is historically correct and believe me, even for the model building much easier than fitting all in 1 collar while levelling out the lengths properly 🙂

 

XXXDAn

Thanks, that’s exactly the confirmation I was looking for!

[Malcolm Brown]

13 hours ago, William-Victory said:

I got mine at Walmart?  The wire is cool and has it's uses. Maybe use it for everything?  I picked up some regular ( I think its regular) string-like flimsy stuff too.

Now.  Im not a follower. That said, I finally adopted the white glue and black pigment method Dafi uses.  With that white glue (maybe some micro dots of CA) the flimsy string is way more forgiving and it doesnt give you any CA Haze on the parts.

Also what I do if you are interested.  When I am seizing lines I do an single overhand knot with .2mm I think, that draws the strops tight to the bottom of the heart, or block,  Then keeping the simple over hand knot tight I let capillary attraction draw thin CA into the knot just a little.  Not soaking the overhand knot is a challenge.  I just try to get the CA close enough to barely secure it.  If I fail it becomes part of the seizing. Just use more fly fishing line to make up for the thickness and blend it in. Otherwise there is the option to cut off the .2mm line when your done.   Its an experiment in technique.

 

How bad was the warpage in your kit?

 

 

Thanks, this is all very helpful and your

 

14 hours ago, William-Victory said:

I got mine at Walmart?  The wire is cool and has it's uses. Maybe use it for everything?  I picked up some regular ( I think its regular) string-like flimsy stuff too.

Now.  Im not a follower. That said, I finally adopted the white glue and black pigment method Dafi uses.  With that white glue (maybe some micro dots of CA) the flimsy string is way more forgiving and it doesnt give you any CA Haze on the parts.

Also what I do if you are interested.  When I am seizing lines I do an single overhand knot with .2mm I think, that draws the strops tight to the bottom of the heart, or block,  Then keeping the simple over hand knot tight I let capillary attraction draw thin CA into the knot just a little.  Not soaking the overhand knot is a challenge.  I just try to get the CA close enough to barely secure it.  If I fail it becomes part of the seizing. Just use more fly fishing line to make up for the thickness and blend it in. Otherwise there is the option to cut off the .2mm line when your done.   Its an experiment in technique.

 

How bad was the warpage in your kit?

 

 

Thanks, this is all very helpful and your examples look great! I’ll check out my local hardware store (Canadian Tire) for the fly fishing line. Their fishing section is quite extensive.

 

For seizing, I have followed a process similar to yours (although I’m still in the early stages of learning). For example for bowsprit shroud: Heart clamped, wrap shroud (.75 mm black) around heart and pull 2 segments together tight. Single overhand knot -  I like your idea of putting a tiny drop of CA to hold the knot tight.  I hold the ‘loose’ end of the seizing along the length of the shroud and start wrapping with the other end overtop the loose end - 5 or 6 turns . Finish with a double knot and coat with white glue. Looks ok. Incidentally, my ropes are from Amati (sourced from HISModel). For the seizing, I used .18mm natural but I’ll paint it black. I started using .18mm black nylon that came with Amati ropes but the nylon is so slippery it was near impossible to keep tight. Will try again with the drop of CA.  

 

I’m not sure what you mean by “warpage” - do you mean with major components? I bought my kit in 1984 and the only thing that was off was one of those horrid plastic sails was ripped. I had no intentions of ever using them but I got a $20 discount on the kit 😁 It was still $CDN160 in 1984.

[Malcolm Brown]

14 hours ago, William-Victory said:

Not what I am seeing outside of my kit instructions is that they have their own long strops lashed on the topside of the bowsprit.

  In my instructions it is illustrated using a single collar and the "hearts" having a becket on only one collar 3 hearts.  All the stress would be on the single collar.  Doesn't add up to me.  I don't see in Longridge that its a single collar.  If you do tell me the page please.

 

I get it now, thanks and Dafi also confirmed what I suspected: 1 collar for each of the port/starboard-side shrouds (4 in total) and 1 collar for each bobstay - total of 7 collars 😁👍

[allanyed]

5 hours ago, Malcolm Brown said:

This is historically correct..........

......if you are referring to the main stay and main preventer stay.  If you are referring to the forestay and fore preventer stay, the collar was put on double from about 1733, not single like in the photos above.  In addition, after 1773, the collar closest to the sprit was an open heart, not a closed heart.  The drawing below for the forestay and fore preventer stay collars is from page 41 in James Lees' The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War.  Putting a double collar may not be practical or easy at 1:100 scale.    

Allan

Edited February 22 by allanyed

[dafi]

Now I got, it Allan 😊

 

Bill is still at the hearts for boopstay and bowsprite shrouds. 
You are right, the lower hearts for main and forestay are different as the collars for the mainstays are single ones and the ones for the forestays are taken double.

 

Here is the fixing of the Stays in my Model, the bowsprite gear is aready fixed.

 

Edited February 22 by dafi

[William-Victory]

Been using this to cinch hearts tight  

[William-Victory]

On 2/22/2024 at 1:55 PM, allanyed said:

…Putting a double collar may not be practical or easy at 1:100 scale.    

Allan

So five (5) times around with the lashing before seizing. 🤔 just for the stays?

[William-Victory]

So I tried a different technique. Not happy with some seizings using fly line. Putting the overhand knot on it makes a bulge.  So today I applied dafinology and…. Put white glue on the seizing rope. Make the knot the just keep turning the seizing machine.  Touch up with paint. 

I am preparing to do thimbles after these. So I really need to practice simulating splices. 

but I am reaching roadblocks. 
And I JUST realized that the method at the top of this post Malcom is described it. Sorry Malcom. Credit goes to you. 

Edited February 23 by William-Victory

[William-Victory]

On 2/22/2024 at 8:36 AM, Malcolm Brown said:

For example for bowsprit shroud: Heart clamped, wrap shroud (.75 mm black) around heart and pull 2 segments together tight

…I’m using .64mm?

(edit)…. Are you using the same hearts?

Edited February 23 by William-Victory

[William-Victory]

Not sure which attempt this is. Process is cut at angle like Daf. Then I put little drop of white glue on the junction of the “splice” and on the tip of the angled cut. I love simple so .2mm with overhand knot just to hold the two (the end and junction) together. 

next step I am going to fly wire and white glue after I successfully pull of the simple knot. 

more results trying to simulate a splice. 

Edited February 24 by William-Victory

[William-Victory]

Freshening up the top and experimenting with new paint. 

I have only rarely used water based paint on a plastic kit. Just like my avoidance of water based glues. 

Here is the top after a few years of dust. A bit of CA glossiness. 

The paint had more flow than I am accustomed to. And a bit too glossy.  Adding a drop of black matte Acrylic Craft paint subdued the glare. 

…my small parts cup (for safe keeping) fell from a high place  🤔 might be time to order new chains set.   

[William-Victory]

I broke my heart.  And the fix is not to par. It became bulky from the repair, thickness of lines I used annnd trying to hide the splice. 
Today I am experimenting in reducing the line thickness. (Straight rope) to the orphaned attempt of my fore preventer stay heart.

    I started with a fresh pack of rope. The water thinned white glue had problem adhering this time.  When I finally got the glue to coat I decided to try a second coat of acrylic craft paint. 
     Normally I would shudder at the thought of using this on any model. But. When I airbrushed t-shirts I used this type of paint.

    It dries like a rubber almost. Flexible and used for textiles. So far I like that it doesn’t obscure the rope windings. 
 

Opinions please. 

[Malcolm Brown]

On 2/23/2024 at 4:49 PM, William-Victory said:

…I’m using .64mm?

(edit)…. Are you using the same hearts?

I’m still figuring out how to use MSW so my apologies I missed your message from last Friday. For the bowsprit shrouds and bobstays, I’m using .75mm thread (from Amati). I am using the resin hearts from Dafi. I measured the smaller hearts for shrouds and bobstays at ~4mm and the larger for main and preventer stays at ~7mm. Those might not be the ‘official’ measurements but they’re what my micrometer suggested😁

Edited February 29 by Malcolm Brown

[William-Victory]

Took a shot at the 2mm thimbles for a bowsprit shroud.  Intimidation was heavy. 

I’m using .63mm line treated with diluted glue and acrylic craft/textile paint top coat.  In my experience the craft paint dries flexible.  The reason is that the white glue is drying white on the new rope. 

I had to seize it twice to cover the gap between the thimble and the rope.  Touched it up with the acrylic.  I can’t get rid of the stubby ends of trimmed seizings. But I think I’ll keep it. 

Thimble-hook-ring-ring(pin). I’m struggling with my brass blackening skills. I cleaned the plates with warm water and Purple Power cleaner. But the black doesn’t stick. 

Edited February 29 by William-Victory
Image update

[dafi]

Well done 🙂

 

For the blackening: I usually take a dry brush with black paint and go over it after assembly. Takes out all injuries in the blackening from the tools, adjustes the color and blends in with the other paints and also covers all possible white spots fron the CA 🙂

 

XXXDAn

[Malcolm Brown]

On 2/29/2024 at 3:34 PM, William-Victory said:

Took a shot at the 2mm thimbles for a bowsprit shroud.  Intimidation was heavy. 

I’m using .63mm line treated with diluted glue and acrylic craft/textile paint top coat.  In my experience the craft paint dries flexible.  The reason is that the white glue is drying white on the new rope. 

I had to seize it twice to cover the gap between the thimble and the rope.  Touched it up with the acrylic.  I can’t get rid of the stubby ends of trimmed seizings. But I think I’ll keep it. 

Thimble-hook-ring-ring(pin). I’m struggling with my brass blackening skills. I cleaned the plates with warm water and Purple Power cleaner. But the black doesn’t stick. 

I think these looks great, well done!

[dafi]

Just a small warning: Before the main- and forestay can be set, do not forget to put up the shrouds!

 

XXXDAn

[William-Victory]

Verdict on using the acrylic is “bulky”.  Same number of applications.  Tinted glue did the same job with a smaller diameter result. (Bottom with hook)

 

[William-Victory]

Today is redoing the Burton pendant. The previous was too short almost by half. Also I had just done eyesplices. No block or thimble. 

     Now I am aware that there are two ways to do it.  With a thimble (Longeidge) and a single block (McKay).  I chose thimbles. 

I seized the spindles by hand this time for haha’s.  My workspace is 2’x1 1/2’… yeah….

The gap between seizing is 22mm+\-  

I moistened the rope and put a couple micro clothespins for weight to straighten the fall of the dangly pendants. 

   Going to remove the kit blocks and replace them after a repaint of the foremast.  Better blocks are going on. 

[dafi]

Hello William,

 

congratulations for your persistence and the want to learn!

If this is the mizzen mast the Slice is right, if this is the main or fore mast then the pendants should be looped over the masthead in a pair like the shrouds do. Here a cutout from Peterssen.

 

As for the blocks, McKay apparently omitted them - as it was for many years on the V. in P. Steel is using Single 24 Inch for main and fore (15 and 36 in AOTS and the spreadsheet that I did send), and 11 inch for the mizzen. Also for Runner and fall that are hooked in there Steel uses normal single and double blocks, as for most of the literature there are long takle blocks mentionend.

 

For your build there is a sprue in the standing rigging section called "Pendants of Tackles" 015-036with enough good blocks of the said size. Also the 11 inch for the mizzen and topmasts can be found there 🙂

I added a PDF with an overview which blocks to be found on what sprue, hope it helps.

 

I did some more crosschecking on the matter of blocks and added some more blocks to fit for different rigging sources. All those that already did purchase blocks, there will be a new version of the spreadsheet and free "extension set" coming soon 🙂

 

XXXDAn

Layouts Blockversand V3.pdf

Edited March 13 by dafi

[William-Victory]

Thank you Daniel.  So should I use this pendant on the mizzen while I change course for the main and foremast?