HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 by JamesBhm - Modellers Shipyard - Scale 1:48 - first build

[Cabbie]

Morning James, good save from the boys with your rudder.

Always helps to have experienced eyes watching.

Do yo have a link to PP King's letters log book?, when

he took command of the mermaid. The link i was using is not working

and I was trying to find out watch gadgets he would have been putting in his binnacle.

I assume a space for a compass and lamp?

I have been trying to find a binnacle plan.

this is all I could find, might make it as a double.

 

[Cabbie]

I asked Chris watton about what he did for the bowsprit in his new Alert kit and this is what he said.

On 6/15/2019 at 6:52 PM, Cabbie said:

Thanks Chris Also should have asked, How low does it is into the gunwale/bulwarks?

Thanks, now I will leave you alone.

"It rests on top as the gunwales end before reaching the stem, and there in a step down on the bulwarks, so the bowsprit rests on top of the stepped down gunwale or bulwark top edge.

Not sure how well I explained that, just got up and still very tired... lol"

 

I think he means that the gunwale steps down lower and the continues to the stem and

that the bowsprit sits on top of it in a square space. I don't like the idea of just inserting it through a round hole,

will just be  water trap.

Cheers Chris

Edited June 19, 2019 by Cabbie

[Rick01]

Any bowsprits I've seen sitting on rather than through the gunwales have sat in a shallow "fitted" scoop in the gunwales with the capping rail coming about half way up the diameter of the bowsprit. Everything appeared to be a close fit. hope this helps.

 

Rick  

[JamesBhm]

11 hours ago, Cabbie said:

I assume a space for a compass and lamp?

I have been trying to find a binnacle plan.

this is all I could find, might make it as a double.

Chris, sounds like we're thinking on similar lines. I saved the text of King's letters but lost the link where I got them. There's only one reference to a binnacle in the letters plus a couple of references in the handwritten log, but nothing with any descriptive details. I saw those plans you posted and wanted to make a "double-wide" variant. After looking at a lot of pics online I found the one below that I've roughly used as a model. I had started making one as a side build but it turned out to be way too big (the one on the right in the pic below). When I set it on deck it looked like an industrial kitchen freezer unit. I sketched out a smaller one that I've puttered with in my down time but it's not easy working that small. As I shift to deck furniture I'll have to figure out what I can do with it. 

 

As for the rudder...it's an Australian boat. I just assumed the gudgeons and pintles were reversed in the southern hemisphere! I just got in the new hardware but I don't entirely like it so I ordered more in a slightly different size.

[Rick01]

Given that we know the length of the deck and the binnacle may be seen on King's cutaway sketch, you just need a pair of dividers to obtain the height and width of the binnacle. Set the dividers at the measurement you want then walk them down the length of the deck, a quick division will give an approximation for you. As for breadth just go with something that looks proportional that will hold a compass and a light either side.

 

Rick 

[Cabbie]

Thanks Rick, The old kiss principle as I have to keep telling myself.

I was trying to find a much harder way to work out a size.

 

[Rick01]

 

On 6/20/2019 at 7:13 PM, Cabbie said:

I was trying to find a much harder way to work out a size.

Don't know if you James or Chris have got a hi res version of this cut-away. If not here it is, blows up very well and really helps with positioning deck furnishings, rigging and flying jib etc.

I've a couple more somewhere showing flying jibs a bit better. Just ask and I'll post them if needed.

 

Rick 

[Cabbie]

Thanks Rick, From my point of view I don't know what a flying jib is, so

you had better post it.

[Rick01]

2 hours ago, Cabbie said:

Thanks Rick, From my point of view I don't know what a flying jib is, so

you had better post it.

On the kit plans there's a topsail yard fig. 31 Doesn't exist on any of Kings sketches that I've seen but a flying jib does.

It shows pretty well here 

 

and this modern representation of the Mermaid also illustrates it. It's a free flying spar with sail attached hoist(I'm guessing) via block at the masthead.

By the way, here's a three section binnacle which can be scaled down if needed.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread James but I hope these do help.

 

Rick

 

 

 

[JamesBhm]

Still waiting on new rudder hardware, but other than that it’s time to start playing with deck furniture and fittings. Chris and Rick put the binnacle back on my mind. I’ve had two previous attempts that I wasn’t happy with. I was trying to make a box out of 1mm walnut sheet stock then attach trim to it, but it wasn’t working. While bored at work I had a better idea of how to engineer it. I cut two templates out of an index card for the front and back. I glued the trim (2mm x 1mm walnut strip stock) directly to the card templates, with 1mm and .5mm stock to fill in the panels. I had planned to leave it as plain walnut but there were color differences in the stock so I hit it with a light maple stain. The drawer and cabinet pulls are the heads of straight pins. The butterfly hinges were cut from painted cardstock. At some point I’ll add some ring bolts on the side so it can be lashed to the deck. I think the height and profile are a good match for King’s cross section drawing. Not sure about the rest, but I’m happy with it.

[Cabbie]

That is a very neat binnacle Jame, really looks the part.

I had something very similar in my head except I was going to have two compartments on the left.

Is that a vent on the top?

Can you tell me what it measures?

Thanks Chris

[Rick01]

They all seem to have a vent on top - dispels the heat from the oil lamp inside.

 

Rick

[JamesBhm]

9 hours ago, Cabbie said:

That is a very neat binnacle Jame, really looks the part.

I had something very similar in my head except I was going to have two compartments on the left.

Is that a vent on the top?

Can you tell me what it measures?

Thanks Chris...definitely an improvement from my two previous attempts. The vent on top is a model railroad fitting from the local hobby store. The binnacle is 24mm high (including the "legs"), 22mm long, and 12mm wide. The compass inside is actually a piece of round punch-out scrap from the laser cut plywood sheets (I think it was for the tiller hole in the deck) with a face put on it. 

[JamesBhm]

Rudder hardware has arrived and will probably be the focus of build time this weekend. Meanwhile, I've mocked up three possibilities for the skylight using the same wood strips-on-cardstock technique I used for the binnacle. One is all wood strip stock, the other two have variations of a plastic model railroad window frame. I think I'm leaning toward the middle one but am open to thoughts/suggestions.

[Fernando E]

Hi James

I'm with you on the middle one!

Cheers......Fernando 🍻

[Cabbie]

Middle one for me as well, too many panes in the bottom one

Looks good in the 2 tone color.

[Rick01]

Middle one - it wouldn't hurt to put a couple of "iron" bars lengthways across the frame as well. Have them fine and if possible raised slightly then you don't get the appearance of multiple small panes like your third option.

 

Rick

Edited June 29, 2019 by Rick01

[JamesBhm]

Thanks for the input...helpful to know I'm on the right track. I've got some .51 brass bars that I'm going to attempt to mount lengthwise, I just have to figure out exactly how to mount them. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by JamesBhm

[JamesBhm]

I'm procrastinating getting back to the rudder and played with the skylights. Not sure if I'll get much else done this weekend. We'll see.

[JamesBhm]

I'm a little bogged down with the rudder at the moment. I ordered slightly smaller hinges that I like because I can go with smaller notches in the rudder. They have two holes instead of three, and when trimmed to fit the rudder there is only one hole for a nail head. I also couldn't get the smaller hinge pieces to stay put in the bracket. SO...I've got a new (very slightly thinner) rudder fabricated and planked, I re-ordered the same hinges with the little fiddly pieces pre-welded in place, and I ordered the drill bit and chuck I need to drill another nail head hole. I think the effort will pay off. Aside from being correct, the new rudder hardware should look a little less beefy. 

[Rick01]

If you're feeling brave you can cheat with these type of fittings and use a heavy black paper impregnated with PVA glue. Give the appearance of iron fittings and is a hell of a lot easier to fit/fix. By the way I'm looking at getting mie out of it's case and doing some re-modelling. I did a quick scan through King's log and it seems that she was fitted with 6lb carronades so out with the 4lb cannon. I also cannot find any cutters ever fitted with gun port lids so they're coming off. Companionway needs to be turned around and I'll be fitting bars to my skylight. Probably do another check of the rigging as well, although I'm pretty happy with it (at the moment).

 

Rick

[Dr PR]

This may be a bit late for your build, but something to think about when using rub-on lettering. I have always worried that it might some day peel off. And often I have not been able to find the right color in the font I need to use.

 

I use the rub-ons as a type of stencil. First I paint the desired lettering color on the surface and let it dry.

 

Then I add the rub-on letters.

 

Then I paint the background color over the letters.

 

After the paint dries I use masking tape to lift off the rub-on letters, leaving the desired font and color.

 

This has the advantage of being permanent lettering, and the letters have no apparent thickness - important in really small scales.

 

Since you seem to be staining the wood this technique probably won't work, but it is something to keep in mind.

 

Phil

 

 

[Rick01]

I've had a bit of a hunt around the internet and it seems a 6lb carronade barrel is around 43" in length, scaled down this would be about 22mm, nearest I can find in model fittings is Caldercraft's 18lb carronade in 1:64 scale at 22.6 mm with a full base and fittings. Looks like I'll have to order these in. At least buying in the UK I avoid GST 😉

 

Rick 

[JamesBhm]

On 7/8/2019 at 12:17 AM, Rick01 said:

If you're feeling brave you can cheat with these type of fittings and use a heavy black paper impregnated with PVA glue. Give the appearance of iron fittings and is a hell of a lot easier to fit/fix. By the way I'm looking at getting mie out of it's case and doing some re-modelling. I did a quick scan through King's log and it seems that she was fitted with 6lb carronades so out with the 4lb cannon. I also cannot find any cutters ever fitted with gun port lids so they're coming off. Companionway needs to be turned around and I'll be fitting bars to my skylight. Probably do another check of the rigging as well, although I'm pretty happy with it (at the moment).

 

8 hours ago, Rick01 said:

I've had a bit of a hunt around the internet and it seems a 6lb carronade barrel is around 43" in length, scaled down this would be about 22mm

Rick, I'll keep the heavy black paper in mind if I can't get the holes the way I want them. Similar to what I did with the hinges on the binnacle but I hadn't thought to impregnate the paper with glue. Also good to cknow the size of the carronades. I figured they were probably on the lighter side. I think the ones I ordered are 20mm, so the length is right but they'll look a little hefty for 6 pounders. They'll be carriage mounted rather than slide mounted (which I don't think is unusual for lighter carronades). If you check out the Careening Bay drawing, you can see one of them sitting on the beach. As for port lids, I've found one or two contemporary models with lids, but open ports seem to be more common. I still go back and forth (not that I can change things on my model at this point!) Let me know what you do with the companionway. I plan to modify it on mine (I'm doing a lot of modifying with deck fixtures). The skylight bars were worth the fiddly-ness. Not sure if the original boat had them, but definitely a neat visual detail with aesthetic value.  

 

On 7/8/2019 at 12:24 AM, Dr PR said:

This may be a bit late for your build, but something to think about when using rub-on lettering. I have always worried that it might some day peel off. And often I have not been able to find the right color in the font I need to use.

Phil, That's a really interesting approach I'll have to consider for future builds. The possible peeling issue has worried me a bit, although I usually found the Woodland Scenic dry transfer products to hold up well back in my model railroading days (what could possibly have changed in 35 years, right?). After transferring them I covered them with a piece of card stock and rubbed them down good with a stylus, then hit them with a coat of matte poly to hopefully hold them in place. I like the look of finished wood on this model but may try painting for realism on future builds. 

[Rick01]

Thanks for the tip on the carriage rather than slide and for the Careening Bay note also. The deck furniture really needs some time playing with as the kit is so far from King's own sketch, as soon as I've peeled my model out of it's case (takes two people to lift it off the ship) I'll photo the deck as is for you and show the companionway before I turn it round.

 

Rick

[Rick01]

Just found this contemporary instruction on naval carronades. Looks as if the 6lb carronade will probably only measure around 24". The previous length I got was taken from a carronade (supposedly 6lb) on a field carriage on the Isle of Wight. 

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=bWRHAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=carronade+length&source=bl&ots=9YHTlde_Kg&sig=ACfU3U0S-dMkpQUvFtt_8jEzRWyFgsNIHA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjuk9yXvKnjAhV-7XMBHfQvCQU4ChDoATADegQICBAB#v=onepage&q=carronade length&f=false

Scroll back to page 33.

 

Rick

Edited July 10, 2019 by Rick01

[JamesBhm]

7 hours ago, Rick01 said:

Just found this contemporary instruction on naval carronades. Looks as if the 6lb carronade will probably only measure around 24". The previous length I got was taken from a carronade (supposedly 6lb) on a field carriage on the Isle of Wight. 

Rick...wow...really cool resource but I'm trying to wrap my head around that size! Seems awfully small, although I just took a second look and I think it's 2' 4" (so maybe 28-30") That's still awfully short, but the carronade in the Careening Bay painting is pretty stubby (barely hangs over the front of the carriage). I think we saw the same online image of the Isle of Wight gun, and I found a couple of others that indicate a 43" barrel length (assuming they are, in fact, 6 pounders). I may have to go with something in that neighborhood because I can't find something smaller and I think scratch building a gun (even from non-metal materials that are painted) is beyond my skill set for now! The only other thought I had was cutting down a long gun and trying to make it look like a carronade, but I don't think I can pull that off either. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by JamesBhm

[GrandpaPhil]

The carronades aren’t too bad to make.  I made mine out of a dowel rod.

 

I carved it with a #11 scalpel blade.

 

Cut slowly and make small cuts.  Watch your fingers (I learned the hard way).

 

I made the barrel first, drilled it out, glued a seed bead on the back end for the cascabel and put an eyebolt on the breech.

 

 The hardest part was starting the first one.

[Rick01]

Just to add confusion to things this article https://www.arc.id.au/Cannon.html gives average barrel length for carronades as 32" so scaled to 1:48 this is 17mm. Smallest carronade barrel I can find is 20mm so I'm going to go with that and then build my own carriage. This looks to be around 2/3rds the length of the barrel on those not on slides so I'll work around that.

 

Rick

[Rick01]

On 7/9/2019 at 9:56 PM, JamesBhm said:

 Let me know what you do with the companionway. I plan to modify it on mine (I'm doing a lot of modifying with deck fixtures)

Here's a shot of my deck layout and companionway. I've got to remove mine (as I said) and reverse it and possibly lower it a little to match the cutaway sketch.

Next shot is the spreader using a more sensible method than in the instructions, it does mean re-building the lower mast cap.

Next some much needed extra belaying pins at the transom (that tiller has to be re-built).

 

and some more detail on the companionway now it's been detached.

Note that using the kitchen bench to work on isn't recommended except when the admiral happens to be some 10,500 miles away and hasn't got the password to this forum!

 

Rick

Edited July 13, 2019 by Rick01