Viking Longship by Binho - Dusek - Scale 1:72 - Model based on the 11th Century Skuldelev 2 wreck

[Binho]

Hey everyone, thanks for checking in. No progress as of yet - we had a kitchen remodel then a move, but due to the virus we're not fully moved in yet. On the plus side we now have a nice garage that I'll be able to put a small workbench in, so I no longer have to work from the living room coffee table! At this point, I'm not sure when that will be. I might get tired of waiting and just start up again at the coffee table!

 

Thanks Arjan! It really is a lot of shields and oars, haha. Have you checked out the 1:25 scale Billing Boats model of the Skuldelev 3/Roar Ege? It's a trade ship, so it doesn't have all the oars, but it's got a fairly attractive shape.

[Arjan]

Indeed, I have been thinking about Roar Ege. In terms of available figures/crew members 1/25 is an attractive scale.

 

Regards,

 

Arjan

[Binho]

Still working on it! Got a small update today - tested out the color palette I plan to go with. The stains are Minwax Red Oak for the hull, and on the top left is Golden Oak which I’m going to use for the mast and oars. The  black, yellow ochre, and flat red are Vallejo acrylics. I think I’m pretty happy with it overall! I might get to the staining and painting of the hull this week. I need to do it before the deck veneer and thwarts go in.

 

[Louie da fly]

Hi Binho,

 

Good to see you back at work. Coffee table?

 

By the way, I was just looking again at the previous page. That is a seriously beautiful hull!

[Binho]

Thanks Steven! Got my little work area in the garage now, but haven’t had time to work on it. Been working on an app for visualizing an archaeological site on the side, as well as learning photogrammetry. I’ve got too many hobbies! Haha.

 

I’ll probably get back to it fairly soon. Going to try different colors too, not sure I’m 100% happy with the black, yellow, and red. I might try red and green.

 

On a more nautical note also found some time to do a 3D model of the Skuldelev 3. Much faster to make ship models on the computer

 

 

More renders on my artstation page here: 

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/GXrP1B

 

[Cathead]

Out of curiousity, what was your reasoning behind waiting to stain the hull until after assembly, rather than staining each plank separately ahead of time? I would have thought that staining after assembly would risk messing with the glue? Apologies if I missed this answer earlier in the log, I'm reading lots of stuff right now in preparation for my own build and may have overlooked it.

[Louie da fly]

2 hours ago, Binho said:

not sure I’m 100% happy with the black, yellow, and red. I might try red and green.

I'd try it on scrap first to see if you like it. Personally, I find yellow ochre, red ochre and black and white (all possible with the materials of the day) a very attractive combination. I hadn't thought so until I saw a tv show where someone did a recosntruction of an Ancient British chariot and painted it in the colours above with the materials available nearby. Not sure how you'd make green paint back in the day. But it's your model - do what suits you. 

[Binho]

22 hours ago, Cathead said:

Out of curiousity, what was your reasoning behind waiting to stain the hull until after assembly, rather than staining each plank separately ahead of time? I would have thought that staining after assembly would risk messing with the glue? Apologies if I missed this answer earlier in the log, I'm reading lots of stuff right now in preparation for my own build and may have overlooked it.

Hmm, my reasoning was that if I stained on the sprue, I wouldn't get the ends. If i stained the planks individually I thought it would take longer and be fidgety. But yeah, hopefully I won't have any issues with the glue!

 

21 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

I'd try it on scrap first to see if you like it. Personally, I find yellow ochre, red ochre and black and white (all possible with the materials of the day) a very attractive combination. I hadn't thought so until I saw a tv show where someone did a recosntruction of an Ancient British chariot and painted it in the colours above with the materials available nearby. Not sure how you'd make green paint back in the day. But it's your model - do what suits you. 

Yeah, I'm going to do more tests on scrap. I really like red and yellow and yellow and black, so I thought I would like the combination but I didn't really. Maybe if I switch the order? My Skuldelev 5 3D model already used red and yellow, and I didn't want to make an exact replica of the Sea Stallion with red, yellow, and blue. I know in the ancient Mediterranean, green was sourced from malachite and a pigment called "green earth", but I'm not sure about Scandinavia. But yeah, red and yellow ochre would be super common everywhere.

[Louie da fly]

The "blue" on the viking shields in the link I gave early on in this build is apparently made from wood ash. Perhaps that plus yellow ochre would make a green? Might be a pretty dodgy green, though. On the other hand, it's your model. Depends on how finicky you want to be.

 

But please don't go here :

 

 

 

[Binho]

On 7/7/2020 at 6:34 PM, Louie da fly said:

The "blue" on the viking shields in the link I gave early on in this build is apparently made from wood ash. Perhaps that plus yellow ochre would make a green? Might be a pretty dodgy green, though. On the other hand, it's your model. Depends on how finicky you want to be.

 

But please don't go here :

 

 

 

 

loool! I'm pretty finicky about these things so I'm definitely going to do more research!

[Binho]

Found a useful resource from the Danish National Museum. The actual scientific article is only in Danish, but there is a good article on Science Nordic about it in English, including a color palette with a description of each pigment and the presumed relative cost. 

 

https://sciencenordic.com/denmark-history-society--culture/how-to-decorate-like-a-viking/1455997

 

They hypothesize green would have been from malachite (copper ore) and would have been imported, so would probably be expensive. As you said Steven, reds blacks, yellows, and whites would be the most common. I think I’ll try red and black with maybe a white accent or decorative motif, like the Skuldelev 5 had.

[Louie da fly]

Very interesting chart, Binho. One thing I can add is that the orpiment yellow is made from lead sulphide. LOTS of lead based paints back in the day. But I don't think you need to carry the quest for historical accuracy that far . . . 

[Binho]

Haha, I think I’ll stay away from the lead, definitely not looking for that much accuracy 😆 I decided on a black and red color scheme, maybe with a white accent on the too strake. I stained my hull today, but I think gluing it all together first was a mistake actually. The glue has made it all very blotchy. I’ll post a pic tomorrow when it dries - perhaps it’ll look interesting and add a bit of flavor. I’m sure I can salvage it!

[johnothanswift]

I've found that while stains are affected by even White glue, Winsor and Newton (In my case) oils, thinned with white spirits, and mixed to the required shade(s) give a great effect on my Billings Roar Ege. I tend to thin them heavily and apply multiple coats and shading. (Plastic kit modelling background)

I know that there is an interesting conversation around the painting, or not painting, of wooden ship models, my personal take on this is that realism to the original is how I choose to present my models, and any other choice or opinion is equally correct, depending on the individual modeler concerned and their choices regarding the presentation of their model. 

[Binho]

Interesting Johnothan - do you have any pictures of the final result? I'm definitely not against painting, and had been considering on using some sort of wash to accentuate the overlapping planks

[Binho]

Some pics finally! The stain came out fairly blotchy, but I don’t hate the look. Gives it a kind of well used look. Thoughts? Also a scrap with the colors I decided to go with. Think the red and black looks good together!

[johnothanswift]

That looks really good, an interesting effect on the timber. And your colours on the timber look great too. 

[Cathead]

Agreed, hard to say what it's "supposed" to look like but it creates a really nice weathering effect. One thing I learned long ago from model railroading was that models often look best when they "feel" right rather than when they "are" right. Sometimes that means actually making them less than perfect in order to hit the eye the right way.

[Binho]

Thanks! I'll go ahead with painting it once it dries. I want to paint it before I start on the inside. I'm probably going to paint part of the inside red too. Hopefully I'll have time this weekend.

 

3 hours ago, Cathead said:

Agreed, hard to say what it's "supposed" to look like but it creates a really nice weathering effect. One thing I learned long ago from model railroading was that models often look best when they "feel" right rather than when they "are" right. Sometimes that means actually making them less than perfect in order to hit the eye the right way.

 

Yeah, same applies to texturing 3D models. I was going to weather it eventually, but wasn't expecting to start it so soon

 

[Binho]

So here's something a little different! I decided to do a photoscan of the model at the current stage. This will also allow me to do a color test on it without actually having to start on the painting. Annoyingly, it doesn't seem like it's possible to embed the sketchfab viewer in to the post, but you can check it out here: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/viking-longship-model-9202dc5a7dd6421f90af22007fcdb2c9

 

 

 

[Cathead]

Wow! What a fantastic way to explore and visualize a model. Is that something you have professional access to?

[Balclutha75]

Ditto that, really cool!

 

I'm curious to see what you have planned for the black and red and by the way, thanks for that interesting color chart and history you posted a few week ago. I bookmarked it for future reference at the time.

[Binho]

Thanks! I'll post some renders when I have time to do some painting on the digital model later tonight.

 

3 hours ago, Cathead said:

Is that something you have professional access to?

 

No, it's a hobby at the moment. Photo scanning has a relatively low point of entry. You just need a digital camera and some photogrammetry software. There's open source software like Meshroom, but I bought the Standard Edition of Metashape which is only US$180. I'm trying to do it professionally too, it's very useful for cultural heritage applications. In fact, just today our company was just awarded a grant to record some Native American sites in the desert out here using drone based photogrammetry. I'll be helping out with that, and bringing my camera along to do closeups of any rock art the drone can't capture. Hopefully that will lead to more professional photogrammetry projects in the future!

[Cathead]

As a geologist married to a geologist, both of whom have strong interests in the intersections between natural landscapes and human activities, this sounds too good to be true. Could I use that with a standard digital camera to, say, scan a given rock face or landform and create a 3D model of it? I'm familiar with doing this by lidar, but that's really expensive. Probably shouldn't hijack this thread, so feel free to respond by PM.

[Binho]

11 minutes ago, Cathead said:

As a geologist married to a geologist, both of whom have strong interests in the intersections between natural landscapes and human activities, this sounds too good to be true. Could I use that with a standard digital camera to, say, scan a given rock face or landform and create a 3D model of it? I'm familiar with doing this by lidar, but that's really expensive. Probably shouldn't hijack this thread, so feel free to respond by PM.

 

You totally can! I've even gotten good results with my phone. All you need is a series of sharp images with sufficient overlap. Obviously, the better the camera and lens the better the results, but with my $300 DSLR I can as good, if not better, results than a $3,000 laser scanner. I'll PM you more info.

[Binho]

This is very much a work in progress, but here is what the color scheme looks like on the 3D model. I'll probably finish painting it just to make sure it works for the full model, but I think it looks good!

 

[Louie da fly]

Very interesting and attractive colour scheme, Binho. As far as I know there's no archaeological evidence either way on colour so you've got open slather . . .

[Balclutha75]

Looks nice to me. Your 3D model visualization is pretty cool.

 

Can I ask a question here? From post #76 it looks like those strakes are already glued in place. Does that mean you'll paint carefully using masking tape? As opposed to painting before gluing? Thanks.

[Binho]

As far as I'm aware, the only archaeological evidence for color comes from the shields on the Gokstad ship, which were painted alternating yellow and black. In terms of textual evidence, pages 21-22 of Nicolaysen's 1882 Gokstad excavation report discuses color. Apparently in the Heimskringla saga it is stated that Aasbjorn Selsbane's (1002-1024 CE) ship was painted red and white above the water line. In terms of iconography, our main source for color is the Bayeux tapestry which shows ships with strakes of alternating colors. Of course, the colors and color schemes on the tapestry may be entirely abstract, but it's the best we have.

 

Thanks Balclutha! Yes, I will be painting carefully using masking tape. It would have been smarter to paint it first though!

 

One of the great things about testing the colors on a 3D model is it's easy to set it up so you can really quickly change the colors and experiment with multiple different schemes. Here is the final one I am going with, from the (10)80's:

 

 

Just kidding

 

I did however test a whole bunch of different color schemes. I'm still deciding which one is my favorite, there's quite a few that look good. I have a feeling like in the end I'm just going to stick with my original black-red-yellow scheme, haha. Although it does feel a bit German...What do you guys think? Any of you other Viking ship builders, feel free to use these to pick a scheme for your ships if you decide to paint them!

 

 

[Cathead]

My favorites are the single-color black-red and black-yellow.