HMS Victory by Rob S - Mamoli - 1/90th scale - first build

[Rob S]

Just finishing the gun port planking on both port and starboard sides leaving the upper deck open for later gun insertion. Note the starboard bow planking piece that came loose after initial application. The piece has long dried out. I plan to cut the piece ,sand and then apply in the forward opening. Then on to the quarter deck gun port build before then going back to planking.

 

Slow going but getting there.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Rob S
Correct nomenclature

[Rob S]

Quarter deck ports being framed. 

[Emmet]

On 3/24/2020 at 11:55 PM, Rob S said:

Quarter deck ports being framed. 

Thanks for showing the detail as you go along. Do you have a planking plan to scale or do you just work it out from the instructions.?  How do you do your tapering?

[Rob S]

Couple of replies:

(1) Ken - Yes, I only have one bag of green tiles.  Not much room for error.  I’m also thinking my planking may be light.  Hope not, but will soon find out. 

(2) Emmet - Planking plan.  Sort of.  I’m following the Mamoli instructions and reviewing existing model (e.g., Y.T. Is one of many that are excellent plankers) logs for guidance.  As I transition to the bottom portion of the hull, I’m using the modelshipworld.com repository that includes a section on planking of which I’m reviewing ‘Simple Hull Planking Techniques for beginners’ that seems very helpful.  I will be going back to modify the keel to include a ‘bearding’ line.  Not sure that I understand your ‘tapering’ question.  Light sanding as necessary has served well.  Hope that helps or be sure to include some additional details. 

 

Now that I’m nearly finished with the upper hull planking, with omissions previously described, time to create a tool to hold the model upside down for this next bit of planking.

[Emmet]

11 hours ago, Rob S said:

Couple of replies:

(1) Ken - Yes, I only have one bag of green tiles.  Not much room for error.  I’m also thinking my planking may be light.  Hope not, but will soon find out. 

(2) Emmet - Planking plan.  Sort of.  I’m following the Mamoli instructions and reviewing existing model (e.g., Y.T. Is one of many that are excellent plankers) logs for guidance.  As I transition to the bottom portion of the hull, I’m using the modelshipworld.com repository that includes a section on planking of which I’m reviewing ‘Simple Hull Planking Techniques for beginners’ that seems very helpful.  I will be going back to modify the keel to include a ‘bearding’ line.  Not sure that I understand your ‘tapering’ question.  Light sanding as necessary has served well.  Hope that helps or be sure to include some additional details. 

 

Now that I’m nearly finished with the upper hull planking, with omissions previously described, time to create a tool to hold the model upside down for this next bit of planking.

Sorry! By tapering I mean taking a 3 mm plank and trimming it down to 1.5 mm. In my case I am building the La Nina and almost every piece had to be tapered or trimmed towards the bow. I will be doing another ship and am researching all ship things on a continual basis.  I have looked at YT

's good work and learned a great deal but I have a long way to go.

Thanks for the answer.

[Rob S]

Thanks Emmet - now I understand! My tapering method has been in-precise at best.  Each of the Mamoli Victory hull planks is 5mm wide.  I first measure the gap width and length, then cut a 5mm plank to the approximate size and check the length. The length is adjusted by sanding or clipping, depending.  The width is adjusted by laying a straight edge ruler along it and cutting with the exacto knife seen above.  Sometimes the fit is good, other times not so. 

 

Looking closely at the planking technique material, it is by no means trivial.   Perhaps I need to find a simpler planking job to hone my methods before starting with this one.  We’ll see. Good luck with your model!

[Emmet]

4 hours ago, Rob S said:

Thanks Emmet - now I understand! My tapering method has been in-precise at best.  Each of the Mamoli Victory hull planks is 5mm wide.  I first measure the gap width and length, then cut a 5mm plank to the approximate size and check the length. The length is adjusted by sanding or clipping, depending.  The width is adjusted by laying a straight edge ruler along it and cutting with the exacto knife seen above.  Sometimes the fit is good, other times not so. 

 

Looking closely at the planking technique material, it is by no means trivial.   Perhaps I need to find a simpler planking job to hone my methods before starting with this one.  We’ll see. Good luck with your model!

It helps to hear what others do.  Recently I downloaded modelshipssimplified and Isaw a suggestion about cutting the width multiple times while the wood was wet.  He also suggested  drying a plank while bending it to the hull starting at the bow.  Then using CA-a space then PVA and go across the hul that way.  I will not be doing ahulll too soon but the info is important to me.  I am currently doing rigging on La NIna.

[Rob S]

Thank you Emmet. This forum provides a multitude of ways for doing things and one must find what works best for them!  I’m sure there isn’t a best way.. but it’s good to see methods of the many pioneers who have gone before. Good luck with your La Niña rigging; I’ll need to check it out.

 

For now, I’m planning to use the planking technique called out in this forum’s planking material (See above) and I’ve started to remove the keel wood associated with the so-called keel Bearding line.  This is one area that the Mamoli kit either didn’t call out to be done early on... or I simply missed it.  I believe the planking source material stated this wasn’t an essential step, but if done correctly will allow the planks to lay on a better line.  I’ll also need to sand down the supporting walnut (I think?) structure between the stern and middle keel sections.  

 

Just getting going and notice how I plan to secure the ship while I’m working this portion of the planking.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Rob S
Correct mistaken reference

[Emmet]

Thanks for you input-it is clear that how you build will be different for many reasons. It is still great to exchange ideas. It makes you think.

With respect to installing the garboard plank and bottom planks I did not put the deck in so that I could hold the ship upside down by using clamps on the frames.  I had a heck of a time dealing with 3 mm planks and trimming them to 1.5 mm multiple times.

I did read all of the info on the bearding line but could not see how it applied in my case.  There is not much of a keel on the La Nina.  Originally I had used some angle clamps to hold the ship upright.  I will be watching your planking. BTW it looks good.

[Rob S]

Thank you Emmet! I couldn’t agree more; there are many ways to do the same thing.  I am continually amazed by the quality shown by so many modelers.  I’m clearly not in their company, but doing my best.  Please point me to your build log so I can follow along with your build.

 

As of now, I’m working to prepare the ship for the rest of the planking exercise by sanding the various bulkhead edges near the stern and bow for a better plank/bulkhead bond.  I created a simple sanding tool/block after watching a planking video on a YouTube and the technique used there.  I’ve completed this sanding and now am planning to complete the planking in 25mm bands starting first near the keel with the garboard plank.  The first two temporary planks are installed and I’ll be starting shortly.

 

 

[Emmet]

8 hours ago, Rob S said:

Thank you Emmet! I couldn’t agree more; there are many ways to do the same thing.  I am continually amazed by the quality shown by so many modelers.  I’m clearly not in their company, but doing my best.  Please point me to your build log so I can follow along with your build.

 

As of now, I’m working to prepare the ship for the rest of the planking exercise by sanding the various bulkhead edges near the stern and bow for a better plank/bulkhead bond.  I created a simple sanding tool/block after watching a planking video on a YouTube and the technique used there.  I’ve completed this sanding and now am planning to complete the planking in 25mm bands starting first near the keel with the garboard plank.  The first two temporary planks are installed and I’ll be starting shortly.

 

 

I do plan to build the Victory when I get home to New Hampshire.  I have a good workshop there.  Right now I am marooned in Florida. My admiral was telling me I have the ship all over the house.We decided to stay here rather than try to go home and staying in hotels and whatever. I do not have the room here to build a big ship. The La Nina is only a foot long.  

I will be following you and others along with utube and anything else I can get my hands on. Ship building is very challenging. Pretty tricky-when I put the URL in up popped the box below.  You cannot see all of the mistakes I have made at this point but there are many.  Some were reversible while others were not.

 

[Emmet]

2 hours ago, kjs said:

I always tell people the mistakes are "optical illusions".

Haha My partner loved it when I always told him that people who do not make mistakes never do anything.  Ship guys do not worry about mistakes.

20 hours ago, Rob S said:

Thank you Emmet! I couldn’t agree more; there are many ways to do the same thing.  I am continually amazed by the quality shown by so many modelers.  I’m clearly not in their company, but doing my best.  Please point me to your build log so I can follow along with your build.

 

As of now, I’m working to prepare the ship for the rest of the planking exercise by sanding the various bulkhead edges near the stern and bow for a better plank/bulkhead bond.  I created a simple sanding tool/block after watching a planking video on a YouTube and the technique used there.  I’ve completed this sanding and now am planning to complete the planking in 25mm bands starting first near the keel with the garboard plank.  The first two temporary planks are installed and I’ll be starting shortly.

 

 

I do plan to build the Victory when I get home to New Hampshire.  I have a good workshop there.  Right now I am marooned in Florida. My admiral was telling me I have the ship all over the house.We decided to stay here rather than try to go home and staying in hotels and whatever. I do not have the room here to build a big ship. The La Nina is only a foot long.  

I will be following you and others along with utube and anything else I can get my hands on. Ship building is very challenging. Pretty tricky-when I put the URL in up popped the box below.  You cannot see all of the mistakes I have made at this point but there are many.  Some were reversible while others were not.

 

[Rob S]

As I attempt to start laying the first of the garboard planks, I noticed a couple of things in need of resolution before beginning.  The first issue would be well suited for some type of ‘Lessons Learned’ log for building this Mamoli kit.  I’m going to attempt to keep this log as I go and publish it at the end so that other Mamoli/Victory kit builders can be forewarned.

 

(1) Keel braces.  The Mamoli Victory keel comes in three pieces - bow, middle and stern sections.  Mamoli provides 4 x walnut pieces to glue over the bow-middle and stern-middle interfaces on both port and starboard sides - to shore up the keel.  I made the mistake of installing/gluing these pieces too low on all sides so that they impinge on the planking/keel interface.  See picture. Left alone, it would cause an unsightly bump in the planking.  I’ve since cut them back, but it is a bit tricky given the current state of the build.

 

(2) Bulkhead/plank interface.  When putting the 25mm band plank in place near the keel, I noticed several bulkheads that were slightly higher (lower when installing the plank) resulting in a gap between some bulkheads and the band plank. The result could be a dip or soft spot in the planking over those bulkheads since the plank does not directly contact them.  I since added a wedge of 5mm x 2mm material (same as the planks) on top of those bulkheads to allow the plank to lay flat upon it and eliminate the gaps.  See picture.

 

Hopefully I’ll get the garboard planks installed tomorrow!

 

 

[Emmet]

Since I intend to build the Victory I am trying to make up my mind about which vendor I should use.  I think it does not matter which vendor you use there will always be corrections for mistakes and lack of understanding of the intent or the kit provider.  I did a lot more little things just like above that I did not show though I should have. I remember that I sanded the edges of the frames so that the planks would touch the frame more on a sharp bend. Sometimes I become so engrossed in overcoming a problem that I forget to take a pic until it is covered up. My log would probably be twice as large if included many little adjustments. 

Actually when I built things for my house it was the same process only on a bigger scale.  I made many mistakes but the beauty of wood is the ability to correct and fudge your way through.  My favorite comparison is sheetrock spackling.  Most people will not see the mistakes I made but I will.

[Rob S]

Emmet - This is a great forum to get feedback on what Victory model might be best.  Be sure to check out the member kit survey results provided up front before the ship logs begin.  Agree that each kit will have ups/downs, however the survey results may indicate some are better.  Of course, Y.T. has certainly made Mamoli look good.  Now, if only I had his skill set!

 

The starboard and port garboard planks are now installed..... let the planking resume!

[Emmet]

8 hours ago, Rob S said:

Emmet - This is a great forum to get feedback on what Victory model might be best.  Be sure to check out the member kit survey results provided up front before the ship logs begin.  Agree that each kit will have ups/downs, however the survey results may indicate some are better.  Of course, Y.T. has certainly made Mamoli look good.  Now, if only I had his skill set!

 

The starboard and port garboard planks are now installed..... let the planking resume!

Looks like a good start.  Did the garboards go on easily or did you have to soak them and bend?  Using nails helps a lot. Thanks for the survey tip.

[Rob S]

On 4/9/2020 at 7:31 AM, Wallace said:

You have reached an important stage of the build Rob. Well done so far sir, take this oart nice and slow and remember..... measure twice cut once

 

Thank you Wallace; understood and sound advice. Your build log covers this nicely.

[Rob S]

Planking progress near the keel.  Taking it slow.  I typically soak each plank for 10-15 minutes.  The length of the planks make it difficult to wet the entire length.  I am cutting some of the planks in two to ensure I can sufficiently moisten each.

 

 

 

[Emmet]

7 hours ago, Rob S said:

Planking progress near the keel.  Taking it slow.  I typically soak each plank for 10-15 minutes.  The length of the planks make it difficult to wet the entire length.  I am cutting some of the planks in two to ensure I can sufficiently moisten each.

 

 

 

Looks good!  Great pictures!  Are you letting the planks dry on the hull?  I guess the stealers go in with the plank plan.

[Rob S]

16 hours ago, Wallace said:

I used a big old thermos flask filled with hot water to soak my planks. They fit in there with just the tip sticking out. Rob, be careful not to "over siak" the wood - it does shrink quite a bit when it dries (especially the first layer planks) and you will need to allow for that when calculating where the next plank will be situated. 

Thanks Wallace - you mean 'over soak' the wood?  In other words, can you leave it in too long?  I've read that 10-15 minutes suffices. I'm typically doing a plank on port and starboard sides a day.  That gives the wood some time to dry.  BTW, that thermos flask has to be pretty large to hold most of the planks... Will see what I can find. Thanks again. 

[Robert29]

Hi Rob, I am currently building the Caldercraft HMS Victory and planking took me a long time, planning, measuring, soaking, glueing etc.  I can give you a few hints that I learned throughout my planking period. A tool I found very useful was the Amati Electric Plank Bender.  Sometimes if bending flatware you don't even have to soak the plank.  But if you are bending edgewise you have to soak them.  I never glued planks in place while they were still soaked.  Wood expands when soaked and contracts again when it dries.  So glueing soaked planks, when they dry they will probably leave a gap from adjacent planks.  I used to soak them, bend them to shape, pin them in place temporarily until they are dry.  When dry take it off, it should retain the same shape.  If need trim to make perfect fit.  

It is very easy to soak long planks.  From any ironmonger buy a piece of PVC drain pipe, maybe 30mm diameter, and a stopper for the same pipe.  Seal one end with the stopper, keep it upright and fill with water.  You only have to be careful where to keep it, because of its small diameter and long shape it topples very easily. It is best to secure it with something.  You can make it any length you want and it is very cheap to make.  Hope this helps you and good luck on your build.

 

Robert

[Snow]

Hi Rob snowy  here 

Personally  I  soak all my planks for 1 to 1half hours and do just 2 a day and let them dry I too love the  electric plank bender but I 

First cut  1 end to start  then bent to shape about 5 mm apart ( depending)  with the  amati  hand bender then glue  about  150mm with mostly wood glue and dabs of superglue  then work my way along in stages .I use  the heat bender to run across  the planks after cleaned .Frank mastini ( great book)as the reckons it heats the glue and helps the planks 

Cheers snowy 

[mcpwilk]

The secret to planking sharp curves at bow and stern is to chamfer the frames. This often requires patience, a lot of elbow grease and a sanding block!

 

Mike

[Emmet]

56 minutes ago, Wallace said:

Yes, I meant over soak.... fat fingered that one didn't I. My thermos is a big old one from my army days, I don't think they make them like that anymore. I did test soaks on the planks I used and found that about 8 minutes was ideal for the wood. If your time works for you that is obviously fine sir, just wanted to point it out is all. 

Emmet here.

Some great info in the above sections about planks.  I did  a lot of things using info found here and many other sources. In the end I soaked the planks and alternated pva with CA and the electric plank bender to dry the wood as you glued them.  The La Nina is small and the bends were not that great. My major problem was having to trim or taper the planks fro 3 mm to 1.5 mm. It was hard to cut them.  Next time I will make a jig.

Snowy where do you get those office clips with the extra piece on them to press on the planks. It looks like you made them yourself. I have seen them before.  I like how you get a broader area to put pressure on the plank.

The idea about using pvc pipe to soak the planks is a good one.  I will do that when I get around to Victory this Summer.

[Emmet]

I should have added that there was a lot of bending edgewise which made it tough and I got glue all over the place. I got better as I went but it was a difficult thing to do for a first timer. 

 

[Rob S]

10 hours ago, Bertu said:

Hi Rob, I am currently building the Caldercraft HMS Victory and planking took me a long time, planning, measuring, soaking, glueing etc.  I can give you a few hints that I learned throughout my planking period. A tool I found very useful was the Amati Electric Plank Bender.  Sometimes if bending flatware you don't even have to soak the plank.  But if you are bending edgewise you have to soak them.  I never glued planks in place while they were still soaked.  Wood expands when soaked and contracts again when it dries.  So glueing soaked planks, when they dry they will probably leave a gap from adjacent planks.  I used to soak them, bend them to shape, pin them in place temporarily until they are dry.  When dry take it off, it should retain the same shape.  If need trim to make perfect fit.  

It is very easy to soak long planks.  From any ironmonger buy a piece of PVC drain pipe, maybe 30mm diameter, and a stopper for the same pipe.  Seal one end with the stopper, keep it upright and fill with water.  You only have to be careful where to keep it, because of its small diameter and long shape it topples very easily. It is best to secure it with something.  You can make it any length you want and it is very cheap to make.  Hope this helps you and good luck on your build.

 

Robert

Thanks Robert; great tips!  I'll pick up the PVC drain pipe for the longer planks. Up to now I've been attaching damp planks which now makes sense why I have some gaps (as Wallace also stated).  I will work up a jig for holding damp planks in the right configuration for drying before installing.  Can you expand a bit on 'flatware' - is that bending in the direction of the length of the plank vs. twisting?  When tapering planks - can you confirm which edge (i.e., tapered or straight) goes on which side?  It seems to me that gaps would be created by laying tapered against straight edges..  Thanks again!

[Emmet]

1 minute ago, Rob S said:

Thanks Robert; great tips!  I'll pick up the PVC drain pipe for the longer planks. Up to now I've been attaching damp planks which now makes sense why I have some gaps (as Wallace also stated).  I will work up a jig for holding damp planks in the right configuration for drying before installing.  Can you expand a bit on 'flatware' - is that bending in the direction of the length of the plank vs. twisting?  When tapering planks - can you confirm which edge (i.e., tapered or straight) goes on which side?  It seems to me that gaps would be created by laying tapered against straight edges..  Thanks again!

I know I should not do this but Happy Easter if you are so inclined.

[Emmet]

4 hours ago, Wallace said:

I had made a jig for that purpose, will have to see if I can find the link here, I posted it in the appropoate section on the forum. 

Yes, you can make them yourself. I bought the medium sized ones for my scale model. Just remove one of the "ears" from another clip and place it inside the jaws of the one you will be using. It makes for great plank holder thingys If you study the images on any build that has them you will see how simple they are to fabricate. 

I will do this as soon as I can get some clips.  I will not be doing planks for a while but I definitely will get to these clips.

[Emmet]

7 hours ago, Wallace said:

Yes, I meant over soak.... fat fingered that one didn't I. My thermos is a big old one from my army days, I don't think they make them like that anymore. I did test soaks on the planks I used and found that about 8 minutes was ideal for the wood. If your time works for you that is obviously fine sir, just wanted to point it out is all. 

Haha I use a 1.75 gal whiskey bottle. for La Nina.

[Rob S]

Yes, Happy Easter to all that are so inclined!!  If not, may you have a safe and fulfilling day!