Where are the Masts & Sails?

[Oskar24]

I have been reading the “Build Logs for Scratch Ship Model” to educate myself before I start my first model but I noticed there is no information regarding the masts & sails in any model.

 

Most likely there is a good explanation but I was thinking the masts of a ship should start somewhere down in the lowest hull of a ship so they can be properly secured.

 

Even the drawings I got for the Triton which will be my first model contains no information regarding masts. So if I want to include mast in my model where can I find the required information?

 

Thank you

[pontiachedmark]

Gidday Nicolas and a warm welcome from the Land Downunder.

I may have misunderstood or I am naïve but have you done a search for Masts? I suspect there will be a lot of information available. I certainly hope this suggestion is of some help.

I am also in a quandary re the plans having no information on the masts. Do you have the complete set of plans? Possibly someone in the group can assist.

I wish you all the best in your endeavours,

Mark.

[ccoyle]

Hello, Nicholas.

 

As you can see, there is an entire section in the forum dedicated to masting and rigging (I moved your question here). Now, as to your question, I think there are any number of scratch-built logs that do include masting, though it is not uncommon for scratch builders to make "hull models", which, as the name implies, do not include masts and rigging. There are also some good books on the subject, though I will let those who are more knowledgeable on the subject suggest some titles for you.

 

Cheers!

[Oskar24]

Thank you folks for the help, well appreciated

 

I got the Triton plans from NRG and since I only paid $5.00 I don’t expect them to be fully complete, I mean including the masts, and that’s fine with me.

 

My question pertains to why someone will build a hull model with so many details on each deck but not to provide any details about the masts which I will assume they will take considerable space on each deck due the extra bracing each mast requires in the hull. I’m not asking for trouble guys, I just want to educate myself.

 

I did have a brief look on the forum section in Masts but I didn’t find what I’m looking for and that is how each mast is supported/attached to the hall.

 

I apologize if I’m asking something silly but I never built a model before and have zero knowledge about ships but to my opinion a mast will need a lot of work to be attached to a ship since that’s the “engine” which moves the ship and that “engine” takes a lot of forces from the winds so they are better well secured to the hull.

[davyboy]

Hello Nicolas,

I don't know whether you intend to build Triton POF or POB but you can find all the info on masts and yards you need here:- Google  The elements and practice of rigging and seamanship. This takes you to the website of the San Francisco Maritime National Park Association which shows Steels book. Scroll down to page 50 all the size info on masts and yards is there for a Frigate such as Triton.

 

If you scroll down to the bottom of the main page you will find the Tables and Dimensions of Standing and Running Rigging,again all you need to know is there. Just saw your last post,pages 208 - 211 should be of interest. Hope this helps.

 

Dave 

Edited June 8, 2019 by davyboy

[Oskar24]

Thanks Dave, I found the document and it is a very good info to have.

[trippwj]

In terms of how the mast is mounted to the hull, search for mast step and look at some if the examples.  You may also want to search google books for Fincham (I think. Will get details ehen next at my computer) mast making.

 

Now, as to your other question concerning not showing masts on a model.  There are at least 2 reasons that I am aware of.  First is aesthetics - some find the beauty of the hull more appealing when not cluttered with all the fiddly bits of sticks and strings.  The second is size - adding the full rigging to a hull increases the size (and risk of damage, and dust collection ability) substantially. 

 

In the end it is what you, the builder, desire.

 

[Oskar24]

1 hour ago, trippwj said:

...Now, as to your other question concerning not showing masts on a model.  There are at least 2 reasons that I am aware of.  First is aesthetics - some find the beauty of the hull more appealing when not cluttered with all the fiddly bits of sticks and strings.  The second is size - adding the full rigging to a hull increases the size (and risk of damage, and dust collection ability) substantially......

 

Thank you Wayne, that's the answer I was waiting for. It is curiosity that drove me to this question and now I have the answer.

 

Thanks again

[mtaylor]

Nicolas, 

Did you miss this part of the download for the dimensions:  

   As for the rigging, I'm not sure where to look for that as I've not built an English frigate.

[Oskar24]

Thank you Mark for your help

 

I thought that I downloaded all the files but I guess I missed this one. Very nice to have this file which will be helpful down the line (if I ever get to that point).

 

My thanks again

[wefalck]

Not sure, I understand your question right. However, on the point how masts are secured to the hull, one needs to distinguish between model and full-size practice.

 

In full-size practice, a mast is fixed to the hull at three points: 1) the mast-spur, which is a square or rectangular short part at the bottom end of the mast that is inserted into a matching hole in the keel, false keel, or an extra piece of wood bolted onto the same, 2) by wedges around the mast, driven into a frame that forms part of the upper deck structure, 3) at its top by the system of stays and shrouds.

 

On models, point (2) above is usually omitted or not functional. It depends also on the construction, namely whether PoF, PoB, bread-and-butter, etc. Sometimes, people provide a pipe section into which the mast is inserted.

[Oskar24]

Thank you wefalck for your time

 

The answer to my question is shown in post #8 above

 

What you describe in your post today will be very useful to me when I start to build my model and come to the stage of securing the masts to the hull.

 

Although Triton will be my first model, I plan to build a full-size practice (scratch POF) because I want to learn all required details. Perhaps not the smart way to start modeling however it’s my opinion that’s the way to learn.

 

I don’t know what “full-size practice” means but the Triton plans I have are 1:48 scale and I reduced them to a scale of 3/16”=1’-0”.

 

Thank you again

[wefalck]

Full size practice means the real world, 1:1 scale ...

[Oskar24]

Thank you, now I understand

[trippwj]

32 minutes ago, Oskar24 said:

Thank you, now I understand

This may help a little - shows how the mizzen mast on the Frigate Constitution is stepped.

 

[Oskar24]

Thanks so much Wayne, that picture is worth thousand words

 

Much appreciated