Experiences with 3D Printing for Ship Models

[Haze Gray]

So lately i've been looking at large format resin printers -  the Peopoly Phenom has a build volume of 276mm x 155mm x 400mm which is really big.... One could conceivably do a complete hull with a lot of detail and do it much faster compared to printer that uses filament.  I've been thinking about doing ships that I design in 1/350 scale and that Phenom looks like it is basically what I had in mind... tempting....  

 

 

[thibaultron]

A couple things to note about resin printers. The resins are generally toxic, so keep the printer away from children and animals. The resin print is brittle, so be careful handling it. The resin has a shelf life after opening it, so a large resin printer may be expensive to feed, if you are doing small volumes of prints. (OK, three things, but I can't count well).

[Kevin-the-lubber]

6 hours ago, Haze Gray said:

So lately i've been looking at large format resin printers

You do quickly run up against the size limitations with the small home machines. But even something like the peopoly is many times the cost of the elegoo Mars I bought a couple of months ago. Personally, I think if I was to ‘invest’ any further I’d want to look at SLS and solve the supports and brittleness problems that come with resin, but that’s a whole different ball game cost-wise.

[PietFriet]

I bought a resin printer a couple of months ago so that I can print my own decorations, since I'm not very good at carving or sculpting. The detail you can achieve is insane, but it requires a lot of practice to get there. Many things can go wrong, but everything can go right as well! For me it is all part of the fun, others could get frustrated. The one thing I had not realised is that the total initial cost is about twice the cost of the printer itself.

[Haze Gray]

So, I'm currently modeling the USS Olympia and for awhile I've been thinking about how to model the figure heads on some of these old ships - I have a resin printer that would use for the actual printing - but as far as creating a model I don't think what I usually use (Fusion  360) is really the best tool - maybe blender is the best option? (have never tried it).   The figure head of the Olympia was some sort of forging - it's possible that's it's still around and ideally I'd like to 3d scan the entire thing but it might take a long time to track down! 

 

Anyone have any suggestions? 

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Haze Gray

[PietFriet]

I agree that Fusion 360 is not the best tool for that.

 

Although I am still in the learning phase, I use indeed the sculpting tool in blender to make decorations. I don't have a background in graphic design and have spend about 2 months practicing before even attempting to make decorations; yesterday finished my first 3D crown for a door panel. A pen tablet is a must but a basic version can be bought fairly cheaply.

 

I have no experience with 3D scanning as I found it impossibly to find the items to scan.

 

This is not to discourage you, just realise you are starting a new hobby😀

[thibaultron]

The Olympia is berthed in Philadelphia, though admittedly, it would be a long walk, for you!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I’m on the cusp of trying to get a handle on blender myself, to remake some figures. My previous attempts at remodelling svg’s or was it stl’s have not gone terribly well, things weren’t behaving as I expected, so I guess I’ll have to spend some time learning it properly.

 

why is a pen tablet needed? I’ve just used a PC.

[Haze Gray]

1 hour ago, thibaultron said:

The Olympia is berthed in Philadelphia, though admittedly, it would be a long walk, for you!

Unfortunately the Olympia as preserved does not have the figurehead otherwise I’d be there in a heartbeat!

[PietFriet]

If you use blender as if you are working with clay, then the pen strokes and pen pressure control are more natural compared to a mouse.

 

Converting drawings is either 2D, e.g. you only get equal thickness, or 3D if the 3rd dimension is given as a grayscale. The latter can sometimes be created from photos but I found that shadows in photos are not a good way to convert into 3D.

 

Which is why I went the sculpting route. Once (if) I master that it should give me a lot of flexibility to create any decorations without having to rely on finding the right source material. I am still optimistic about that🤪

[PietFriet]

The pen tablet I use is this one. You still use your pc.

[lmagna]

Would this help?

 

https://www.loc.gov/resource/ggbain.03311/

[Haze Gray]

1 hour ago, lmagna said:

Would this help?

 

https://www.loc.gov/resource/ggbain.03311/

Hi Lou, I do have that one and a few others for the Olympia - I know of about 5 bow ornaments/figureheads that have known public locations but whereabouts of all the rest (including the Olympia's) are unknown to me.   A 3D scan would make quick work of the modeling - I am kind of assuming that many have been preserved somewhere (hopefully not in private hands).   Since I'm very new to 3d sculpting it might take a really long time to develop the skill to do these but eventually I'll get there if that's what it comes to!

 

The bow ornament from the USS New York (ACR-2) was actually at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard Museum, Bremerton, back in the 50's, that's one I'm chasing down too. 

NH 85145.tiff

[thibaultron]

Looking at other pictures in the Library of Congress collection, the figurehead seams to have been added after 1895. The shield decoration seems to have been the original.

 

Thne stern decoration that goes with the figurehead, looks like fun also.

[Haze Gray]

Hi Ron, Yes indeed the figurehead and the stern plaque were likely added in 1901 during a minor refit - Marine engineering from April 1902 reported on the changes of some of that refit included photos of the bow ornament, stern ornament, and a flat plate with a relief that commemorated the battle of manila bay. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I’d never even heard of these drawing tablets, think I’ll give that a go when I’m finished with the parts I can do in f360. I’ll need to try to sculpt some figurines soon.

 

The other day I read with interest an article on home made 3D scanners on All3d. All of which looked simple and cheap to make. No good for something on your scale, Haze, but maybe useful for recreating small objects.

[wefalck]

These tablets were/are(?) very common in engineering and science contexts. In art and illustration they probably have now been replaced by iPads that are available in larger sizes for such pruposes. Designers of animations for films and computer games also used such graphics tablets.

 

I got a cheapo one, but then found out that I couldn't get the driver for it on my Mac ... now I am using my iPad with the stylo for drawing.

 

Some of the tablets could also be used for digitsing purposes. You put your graphics or whatever onto the tablet and then trace it with the pen. Today I would scan the item, put the image into one layer and then trace it in another layer.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I think this is just what I need, there are a few bits on the victory that I doubt I’ll ever get right in fusion.

[Haze Gray]

thought I would share what's I'm attempting - I'm using fusion 360 to create the basic shape / profile and then port that into blender to shaping... I have no idea if this will actually work though!

 

[lmagna]

I think I read somewhere that the figurehead was removed and placed into storage at the Naval Academy when the Olympia was readied for WWI. Possibly they still have it stored somewhere?

[JerryTodd]

Some carronades and Blomfield 18 pdrs for Macedonian from STLs by Tim Bowman that I altered slightly.

 

 

Boarding steps, shells for blocks, bitts and stanchions, and a pivot gun for Constellation, all 3D models made in Anim8or free 3D software by me.

(All in 1:36 scale)

     

 

I'm trying to model the filigree vine-work of Constellation's head carvings, but it's difficult.  The basic geometry of guns and stanchions is much easier for me.

Edited March 24, 2021 by JerryTodd

[Kevin-the-lubber]

6 hours ago, Haze Gray said:

thought I would share what's I'm attempting - I'm using fusion 360 to create the basic shape / profile and then port that into blender to shaping... I have no idea if this will actually work though!

 

That looks like a good idea, I’ll be very interested in how you get on. Previously I’ve tried tweaking svg’s created from photos, but that’s not been terribly successful, I always seem to end up with vector triangles all over the place.

[PietFriet]

6 hours ago, Haze Gray said:

thought I would share what's I'm attempting - I'm using fusion 360 to create the basic shape / profile and then port that into blender to shaping... I have no idea if this will actually work though!

Please let us know if it works. I create the basic shape in blender but I can see that for some shapes it is easier done in fusion 360.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Jerry, nice work. You must get lovely detail at that scale. I hadn’t heard of anim8or, any idea how it compares to other packages? I’m a day or two away from creating filigree for my 1:100 victory and, putting aside that I may need to learn and do it or finish it in blender, my F360 trials have been based on sweeping and lofting along traced paths. The ‘proof of concept’ tests have worked fine but I know I’m likely to end up spending countless hours at least on each little scroll, creating a series of profiles, so not ideal.

[Hellmut1956]

So far I have thought the use of 3D printers for naval modelling is an uncharted landscape. This thread has convinced me I was wrong. Simply amazing what has been shown in this thread.

 

I am about to start to go into 3D printing and I have purchased a 3D printer, the Creality Ender 5 Plus. I was convinced that having a 3D printer is of benefit by seeing in YouTube videos how a circular table saw could be calibrated by using 3D printed parts to fix inaccuracies of the elements of the table. Additionally I saw what a good friend of mine did for me by printing parts I need to implement a cyclone based dust and chips absorption system for my workshop. But I o confess, 3D printing and the related DIY CNC milling machines have become a hobby for me by their own merits.

 

Right now I am improving my workshop to integrated a circular table saw and as an expansion of it  a router table. Only when that projects are advanced enough I will be able to make a cabinet on which to place  my 3D printer and to make to mutually contained cabins in which I can isolate the contaminated air from my other machines and the high humiity level in my workshop. I do repeat the statement now for my workshop. Improving it has become a hobby by its own merits.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Hi Helmut, I’m finding this to be the liveliest of the threads I follow, suggesting 3D is gaining popularity in this field as the equipment becomes so much more affordable. I think you’ll have fun with the Creality; I’ve mostly used mine for DIY projects or fun things.

[JerryTodd]

14 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

I hadn’t heard of anim8or, any idea how it compares to other packages?

I started using Anim8or in the 90's to make new 3D models for a WWI flight Sim, because it was free, saved in 3DS, and saved in plain text that could be edited.  It's still out there at: www.anim8or.com  It's not Blender, or any other "modern" 3D editing tool by any measure, but I'm at home with it.  My problem is if it's useful for making that viney 3D carved stuff, like below, I haven't found a way that isn't tedious enough to be maddening.

 

As for working in 1:36 scale, the larger the scale, the more detail that lacking, compared to what can be left out of say, 1:72 and still appear highly detailed.  But these being RC models, I can still see a 1:36 scale ship a hundred yards away.