Phantom by gulfmedic1 - Model Shipways - Scale 1:96 - Solid Hull - first wood ship build

[pete48]

This looks like a fine boat, I will be following the progress, you are doing a fantastic job. Hats off

Best regards,

Pete

[trippwj]

Coming along nicely!  I like the laser idea - need to see if I can set mine up to do the waterline.....

[gulfmedic1]

trip

I originally got the laser for that exact reason to help with the waterline. While I was markin the hull I kept thinking man I hope Im true on these lines, looked over saw the laser and that little lightbulb went off ha ha

[gulfmedic1]

thanks for the nice words Pete

I remember someone saying to basically stay ahead of the build, as I was looking at my build last night getting ready to finish fairing the hull kind of getting my plan in place, I noticed a couple of things with the sizes of some of the pieces. Then I remembered one of the Phantom builds the builder made his own gratting (think thats the right word) because the size was off scale

can someone point me to a web link, or a link in here so i can review scale. I know its more than just 1:to whatever number i think there is a conversion in there somewhere.

I dont want this to just be "My first build" I want to do it right

[FlounderFillet5]

Hey Gulf,

 

The build is coming along very well so far, keep up the great work as you are on your way to a fine model as long as you stay patient and pay attention to detail all the way through.

 

About the grating, I'm not sure if you were referencing my Phantom build but that was something I felt a need to change since the kit supplied grating was, in my opinion, grossly oversized. I think the conversion ratio you are looking for is going to be the same scale as your kit. In the case of the Phantom, it would 1:96 or sometimes it is more useful to go with 1ft = 1/8in.

 

I had some trouble finding good source material for doing research on the Phantom so I just try to think of either what size a part from the kit would be in full scale to decide if it would be reasonable( like with the grating, take a measurement of the width of the holes and think about what it would equate to full scale. If I recall correctly, the holes in the grate would have been a foot or more square... At that size, you would fall in and break ankles!).

 

The other way to do it is think of what the size of something in full scale would be and then scale it down accordingly. Right now, I am working on either filing the kit supplied cleats down or scratch building new ones because I figure they would be about 18-24" long in full scale but the kit supplied cleats were something like 3/8" long which would be about 3ft once sized up.

 

There is likely a more accurate way to go about making sure your model is in scale but I figure a little bit of common sense and thought can go a long way.

 

Hope this helps!

[gulfmedic1]

hey Max thanks, and yes you were the person I was talking about, sorry I couldnt remember your name. Yes your in put helps a lot. maybe I am being to OCD but i really would like to stay as true to the build as possible, as stated eventhough its my first I really want it done right. thanks for the explanation, its hard getting information on this vessel. I am trying to pick items that I am confident are true to scale for reference but its hard. Do you know her life size demensions I cant find it.

 also I found this link I thought was cool, the builder put two flags i didnt see in my kit.

on is the red white flag which means " i have a pilot on board" the other is the "follow me flag" i think im going to put those on her when its complete.

 

http://www.olsonhistoricshipmodels.com/forSale/phantom/index.htm

 

Max

i found this conversion calculator not sure if its accurate but it seems to be right

 

http://jbwid.com/scalcalc.htm

Edited October 16, 2013 by gulfmedic1

[SkerryAmp]

Nicely done Gulf and LOVE The laser idea!  Looks like you are moving along nicely and love the attitude!!

 

The grates are DEFINITELY to big.  I wanted to adjust mine but decided to just go with what the kit gave me and it resulted in one of the aspect I am least happy about. It looks like a platform rather than a grate.  Max had a grate idea (get it grate.. idea - I crack myself up).   You could also just sand it a bit.  Assemble it and lay it flat on some sandpaper and reduce the thickness - CAREFULLY, the edge a  bit fragile.

 

Regardless - just be happy with what you do and that is all that matters!!

[gulfmedic1]

So I have been working on the fairing of the hull and it is going good I got the number 5 templet went well. I am now on number 4 and I am having an issue. I looks like the "c" center mark is way off. so im thinking once i get the hull faired for that area do I just keep taking off more of the hull until the c lines up to center

[Micklen32]

I wish I understood this build a bit   

But most of it goes straight over my head   

The build is certainly coming along nicely though

Good work   

Edited October 18, 2013 by Micklen32

[FlounderFillet5]

Gulf, 

 

That is a useful link for the conversion calculator.. saves a little time from doing it in your head.  I have seen a few other builds in the past with various flags flying and they definitely add something to the finished model.  When I get closer to completing mine, I will have to do a little bit of research to see what would have realistically been flying back in the day.  I have seen some that have the flags that represent 1868, some that show there is a pilot on board and others that were to lead other nearby ships and communicate.  

 

As for your template problem, the #4 template is clearly wrong where it has the centerline marked.  I think I just moved the centerline over 1/16" from where the template goes flat for the false keel.  You basically want a 1/8" wide flat area on the bottom of the hull to fix the false keel to.  There should be no flat area showing on either side of the false keel and that is where the shape of the hull begins.  My suggestion for fixing that template is to just measure 1/16" over from the point where it goes from the shape of the hull to the flat bottom part and make that your new centerline.

 

Adam, you crack me up too man! grate.. haha  But you are absolutely right in that as long as you like what you made, that's all that matters.

 

Well thats it for me for now.

 

Until next time,

[gulfmedic1]

Thanks Max ill do that and you right Adams funny

[gulfmedic1]

all the build is coming along good, still having issues with the templates not matching up very well, but working through it.

also, i am currently reading Ship modeling simplified and ship model builders assistant. Is there any other book that is good for explaining hull shapeing and understanding how to read the lines and such on the models plans.

I read the article here on MSW but am still a little confused, I would like to learn more and go deeper with reading the plans

[gulfmedic1]

well the hull is fared finaly so now im moving onto the false keel

as you will see i used the template gauge to make sure i had the right angle for the curve. the template and the hull match up pretty good but i figured this way was more accurate.

the only issue is when i soaked the wood and then put it in the pins to mold it instead of a nice curve i got two bends in the wood.

so i guess ill try Chucks method next any other suggestions?

[FlounderFillet5]

Gulf, glad to see you back in the boat yard! I can say that I have had very little luck with bending wood as I get similar results as what you got but for the false keel on the Phantom, it will be painted over/copper plated over and you won't be able to tell which way the grain of the wood is going. I did it chucks way and was happy with the result.

 

Hope this helps bud,

 

Max

[gulfmedic1]

Max

thanks for the input. I am in the process of cutting out the step, according to Chucks instructions the step needs to be done before the false keel. I will try Chucks method for the false keel. if i am not mistaken the "R" on the emplate is where the step would be so ill measure from there and make the cut.

cutting the step seems slow, 1/32" deep is very little area to work with.

pictures will come soon

thanks all for the support

[MikeB4]

Hi Scott, the only problem I found with Chuck's method of creating the stem is how do you clamp the 2 pieces together at that angle. My solution was after cutting it to shape I inserted a pin to hold them together because it pretty much came apart right away. I think ideally if you could cut the stem from a solid piece of wood it would be much better, but the kit doesn't provide enough would to doe that.

[Alfons]

Hi Gulf.

 

I see that you are off to a good start with your Phantom. Getting ready to start rigging my solid hull Schooner, which is my first build, I can recall struggeling with the same kind of challenges that you are.

 

Keep up the good work, your hull looks really nice so far. I will try to follow you along from now on.

 

/Alfons

[FlounderFillet5]

Hi Scott, the only problem I found with Chuck's method of creating the stem is how do you clamp the 2 pieces together at that angle. My solution was after cutting it to shape I inserted a pin to hold them together because it pretty much came apart right away. I think ideally if you could cut the stem from a solid piece of wood it would be much better, but the kit doesn't provide enough would to doe that.

I think I just used some medium CA to glue the pieces together and held them together by hand for about 30 secs until they were relatively secure. Once they finished drying completely, it was easy to cut the piece out. To be honest I don't think I have used almost any wood glue on this build, the CA has been suitable for most things. I think wood glue is more useful for builds that you are planning the hull where you might need to adjust a bit before clamping.

[MikeB4]

I think I just used some medium CA to glue the pieces together and held them together by hand for about 30 secs until they were relatively secure. Once they finished drying completely, it was easy to cut the piece out. To be honest I don't think I have used almost any wood glue on this build, the CA has been suitable for most things. I think wood glue is more useful for builds that you are planning the hull where you might need to adjust a bit before clamping.

Will the CA glue hold over time once the model is built. This is something I wasn't sure of. If it does  I'd rather use CA it would make life easier.

[FlounderFillet5]

Gulf, after writing this post, I am adding this little blurb. I am sorry before you read this that it is so long and kind of off topic (it is all about CA vs wood glue and when it is appropriate to use each). I don't mean to high jack your build log or anything but I though it was relevant info and it is a response to Mike's post above.

 

So, I think the answer to that is that it depends. Items that aren't under a lot of stress should have no problem. This false keel piece should have no problem considering it is glued to the hull, possibly pained over (depending on how far down the hull you paint), and then copper plated over. This thing should stay secure indefinitely, I would think.

 

Other things, like if you plank the hull of the ship or if the method Gulf used to bend a piece of wood to the shape of the false keel piece, where you are bending wood and the wood wants to unbend, I would use wood glue because that will be a very strong joint and the joint will be under pressure until the wood finally gives up (I'm only guessing that the wood will, over time, take the shape you bent it to, but that may take years, I'm not sure).

 

On this build, the only parts I would be concerned about using CA on would be the cleats, on which, the running rigging will be tied. Those cleats will be subject to the tension in the lines which may be significant in this scale. I think Chuck's solution to this makes it so CA should be fine, however. He instructs you to cut off the little prong thing from the bottom of the cleat base, drill a small hole (I think I used a #76 or #78 drill hit here), glue a small piece of wire in the hole so that a short post (slightly shorter than the bulwark stanchions are thick) protrudes. Then, to secure the cleats to the bulwark stanchions or the base of the masts, just drill a hole into them deep enough to take the entire post on the base of the cleat and use CA to secure it in place. I am pretty confident that CA should be sufficient over time when you follow Chuck's method.

 

I know this was a long post but I hope it helps. Keep in mind that I have not been modelling for years and don't know difinitively whether or not what I said in this post is absolutely true, but these are my thoughts on the subject and when I think about it, these points seem reasonable and likely in my mind. Take my advice with a grain of salt or correct me if you know better than me, as I said, these are just my thoughts on the subject.

Edited January 12, 2014 by FlounderFillet5

[gulfmedic1]

Max\ Mike

Thanks for the in put

I decided to cut part of the false keel on a solid peace I'm about to get it down to 1\8 th I did get the stern post on

[SkerryAmp]

You are doing a fantastic job on your phantom!

[gulfmedic1]

Hey everyone, well Im back at it after a long long pause. I worked a little last night on the boat, mainly getting my stand to hold it while I work on it and rereading some instructions and going over where I am and where I am going. Ill post some pics and details later.

Thanks

 

Scott

[ccoyle]

Eight years, eh? Don't feel bad -- I still have my incomplete HMS Fly that I started in 2006. 😧

[gulfmedic1]

Yea realized quickly after I started the kit that I had no Idea what I was doing. Since then have done a lot of other wood working things and understand wood working a lot more. Of course life got in the was as well lol

[gulfmedic1]

Hey everyone,

So I noticed some issues that I will need to take care of on the hull. I got with model expo and they are sending me the cut sheet so I can fair the hull. (think thats the right wording). I have looked at just about all of the build logs for his model and have learned a lot of great information. I also learned that at the end of the day its my model so I can change things with in reason to make it mine, meaning my ocd self shouldn't sweat the small stuff lol. I do work full time so it will be a slow build. I also have looked at many other model builds and have learned so much information about this hobby. I cant wait to get back to more hands on with this build. 

thanks