Oseberg Ship by KrisWood - 1:25 - Vibeke Bischoff Plans

[KrisWood]

The jig half of the plans won't fit on my office floor while the planks and keel half are there so I'll take a photo after the first half is aligned and taped and cut away from the jig half. 🙂

[Larry Cowden]

7 hours ago, KrisWood said:

Hi @bigpetr,

 

While trying to figure out how to print the plans on paper in the first place, a year ago or more now I think, I had changed a number of print settings in both Rhino and Acrobat Reader. I changed them all back to the defaults except for two things:

 

Print scale in Rhino (1:25 instead of the default 1:1)

Print in Greyscale in Acrobat Reader

 

Once I had everything except those two set back to the defaults, it printed correctly the first try.

 

Because I do not own a large format printer I had to print it tiled as a poster in Acrobat Reader. I'll try taping together my tiled pages and building from that. If that still doesn't work (mostly due to inevitable errors in the angle at which I tape them together) I'll take my plans to the local printshop and have them print it at blueprint scale (they go up to ARCH-E  36"x48") and buy a lot of carbon paper to transfer it to the wood.

 

I hope to have updates for you all in the near future!

I used Staples for my architectural prints. Just took them a flash stick with the plans and they printed them directly for me. 

[KrisWood]

17 hours ago, Larry Cowden said:

I used Staples for my architectural prints. Just took them a flash stick with the plans and they printed them directly for me. 

 

There haven't been any Staples in my area in years but Office Depot provides the same services. I am planning on doing that in the next few days. Taping these tiled pages together is a pain!

[KrisWood]

Life came up so I need to put my project on hold for a while.
 

As I wait for such a time as I can start working on this project again I'd like to put forth a question:
 

How hard is it to harvest modeling wood from natural sources? I assume the old Navy board modelers before mass production must have gotten their materials from somewhere...
 

I'm my yard I've got the dead English boxwood I'd previously mentioned, half a cherry tree that fell on my house from the neighbor's yard last summer (which he helpfully cut into firewood for me and is now stacked under my eaves) and dozens more young cherry trees as much as ten feet tall which continuously spring up from the roots of another neighbor's cherry tree.

 

With this abundance of free wood, I should be able to build a fleet of ships, but how does one turn a tree or shrub into miniature planks? I'm considering building a miniature sawmill...

 

I'm already thinking the boxwood would be best carved rather than milled, so would be better for the decorations, but the cherry from both sources I'm not so sure.

[KrisWood]

Nevermind, I looked into it and it's way beyond my time and energy to mill and season wood. I don't have time for modeling the stockpile of basswood I've already got. I don't have a bandsaw or any of the other tools needed for milling wood anyway.

[KrisWood]

The Admiral and I have been debating the viability of my project, mostly in terms of how much time I spend endlessly researching and tweaking lines in the plans. It seems I'm waaaaay over budget in terms of labor, and she's concerned that I'm spending too much time in the shipyard and not enough time in the Admiralty office.

 

Does anyone else have a problem where they spend so much time on their projects that their relationships/parenting/jobs suffer as a result? 

 

I'm going to have to get my life on a schedule so I can balance how much I get done both in the shipyard and out. Once I find that balance, I'll be back to making sawdust.

[Roger Pellett]

Everybody’s work habits differ, but I scratch built several models while managing a demanding career with constant business travel and helping my wife with our two children.  Some tips:

 

Unlike remodeling your bathroom with relatives expected to visit next month, there’s no schedule.  If it takes you twice as long to build the model than you think it should, no problem.

 

Work in small blocks of time; an hour or even a half hour.  If your kids are young enough, nap time becomes your modeling time.

 

The number of hours you spend building the model don’t matter.  This is not a business.  What does matter is that you manage your time so the things that you and your wife agree need doing get done.  

 

A key  to all of this is a dedicated work space where the model can sit undisturbed between work sessions.

 

At least when you are working on the model you’re home.  You’re not spending 4 hours with three buddies on the golf course.  When I was a toddler, over 75 years ago, my father built a model of the Clipper Ship Flying Cloud.  Watching him work on it is the only memory that I have from that age.  Although he died many years ago, I have the model.  I cleaned and restored it and built a glass case for it.  By building it he inspired me to follow him and to get the education that would serve me for a lifetime. If you have children, don’t underestimate the effect that your model making activity could have on them.

 

Roger

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Roger Pellett

[bigpetr]

Roger said it perfectly.

 

I also spend lot of time on modeling. We had few discusions with Admiral right at the begining of my modeling hobby, she was not happy with time I was spending on it initialy (you know the joy and enthusiasm when something is starting ).

 

Now I usualy build models at night and only if I am in the mood for it. Sometimes I am tired or have my mind or hands occupy with different matters. My free daytime is reserved mainly for the kids, after they are gone to bed I can do some modeling.

[Cathead]

In addition to what the others said, I feel it comes down to whether both people in the relationship are being treated fairly. If she's getting the same amount of personal time that you are, to do whatever has value to her, then that's fair. If she isn't, it's not fair. 

 

It's helpful if spouses care about each others' interests (for both the interests and the quality of the marriage), but if that isn't the case, at the very least you both need equal time do to uninteresting things. But are there ways you can offer to involve her in what you're doing (with the equivalent offer to be involved in her hobby)? For example, Mrs. Cathead isn't deeply interested in modeling or maritime issues, but we enjoy talking over my projects and she often has good insights into decisions, methods, or final appearances as an outsider because she cares about me enough to care about what I care about. I do the same for her in areas that aren't my core interest (we do a lot of talking during garden-planning season because it helps her to run ideas past me even though it's very much "her" activity).

 

Personally, I've never liked the way "Admiral" is used on MSW because it implies an imbalance in how people are treated in a relationship. Wives (most of us are men) are not, or should not be, considered some sort of bossy harpy forever getting in our way. You're equals, treat each other as such, and the rest should work itself out (or there are deeper problems that need addressing for which model-related issues are just a symptom).

 

Ask yourself honestly if you're giving her the same free time and attention you expect from her, and go from there.

[bigpetr]

Well said, Cathead. Wery true.

[KrisWood]

Thanks everyone, such great advice here, I almost cried!

 

@Cathead, I think you nailed it. The real question is, "is it fair?"

 

My fiancee isn't "Mrs. Wood" yet so I feel odd saying that, and she's going to keep her last name anyway. I use Admiral out of respect, not deference, so I didn't think of the harpy angle. There needs to be a better term for the person from whom time must be taken if we're to pursue a hobby while in a relationship.

 

Full disclosure, I have Asperger's, and my boat is what they call in the Autism community a "special interest". I lose myself in it completely and can spend hours looking at plans and figuring out how things line up in 3D. I have a hard time stopping work on it once I start, and often drift off in conversations pondering how one part fits with another instead of listening to what people are  saying. It's more than a "hobby" to me, it's more like an obsession.

 

The question then is, is it even possible to balance an obsession with the rest of life.

 

I think the suggestion of only during scheduled hours is the way we'll end up going, but we're not there yet.

[Cathead]

Kris,

 

I think many (most?) people, regardless of life situation, struggle to balance what they personally want (or are most interested in) with what works for their broader life, including loved ones. Your situation might make it more difficult in certain ways, but you're not alone or unique. So you have that going for you.

 

Presumably your fiancé knows you and loves you, just like any fiancé (and vice versa) so really the question is how well the two of you can work out whatever differences you're going to have as your life together progresses. This model-time question may well be a good chance to start setting up a conflict-resolution system that works for both of you, because this won't be the last time you need it if you're as human as the rest of us. Mrs. Cathead and I have certainly spent a lot of time talking (and occasionally arguing) as we work out how best to share a life together. We each give up some of what we personally want because we're more important to each other than any of those activities. I'm sure you and your fiancé  can do the same.

 

For a hobby specific example, when I first got back into model-building, I set up my work area in a spare room in the basement, because it had a lot of room and let me play music and just "get away" in my own space. I assumed this was the best choice because it meant any mess or noise I made was out of the way. Turns out that doing so bothered Mrs. Cathead, because we otherwise spend most of our time together; we've worked together from home for over a decade, most of our living space is a single open-plan layout so we're almost never apart, and we share most intellectual interests. I thought I was giving her space, she thought I was withdrawing from her. So we compromised and I moved my working area to a small table in the corner of our living room. I gave up a significant amount of space, but added the enjoyment of being able to model while interacting with her and our house (for example, sharing the fun of seeing a hawk outside the window). Now we can talk, run ideas by each other, listen to the same music, etc. without being separated by my hobby. I actually like it way more than the old isolated workspace, but got there by giving up what I thought I initially wanted. In turn she accepts a slightly messy, sometimes ugly workspace that takes up space in our small main living area that could be put to other uses.

 

I'm sure the two of you can work together to find a good solution. In my opinion, doing so is nearly the definition of "how to make a marriage work". 

 

[KrisWood]

On 1/29/2021 at 3:52 PM, Cathead said:

This model-time question may well be a good chance to start setting up a conflict-resolution system that works for both of you, because this won't be the last time you need it if you're as human as the rest of us. 

 

 

Hi @Cathead,

 

This part is really the core of it. With Asperger's, communication is my weakest point in life. I told her about your reply and she agrees. This experience is an opportunity to improve our communication and to learn how to resolve issues like this together. 🙂

[KrisWood]

Side note, the boxwood is still alive! I could have swore it was dead, but it's surprised me before. I cleared all the dead leaves from between its branches and found a few branches with green leaves still on them and several branches that were still green, too. I think it might actually come back this spring. 

 

It's a bit on the small side but I found several branches off the trunk that might work for knees or decorative carvings.

 

I also checked the cherry wood stacked on the side of the house. It's several months old and is exposed to the rain. I'm thinking of chopping it into kindling and keeping aside any wood that splits perfectly for modeling instead of worrying about milling it.  (The Vikings used axes instead of saws anyway, of course then I'll have to figure out how to season it...) Fortunately the Saga Oseberg book details exactly how (on cross section) logs should be hewn for each type of part so I think this might actually be doable. Hmmm.... In any event it'll have to wait until I have time to work on the project again.

 

I'm considering just ordering nicer wood than basswood when I'm ready to get back to making sawdust, but we'll see...

Edited February 1, 2021 by KrisWood

[KrisWood]

Minor update:

 

I ordered my blueprints from Office Depot today! They should be ready tomorrow. My fiancee and I worked out our differences and the project is back underway!

 

 

Now down to business. I'm looking for different methods of crafting the T shaped keel. I've got multiple Dremels now, a table mounted jigsaw, and a very large assortment of hand tools that I didn't have last time around. I do not have a mill but I'm considering making or buying one.

 

Could you folks help me look up various ways of making the keel with or without these tools?

 

Thanks!

Kris

[yogi]

you could work out dimensions and craft individual planks and laminate (pva ) glue them together . 1) make a frame to bend your timbers to . 2) cut 3 pieces 2 which are the rectangle profile and 1 which is the trapezoid, rhombus or whatever the other shape is . then laminate them together . should work .

[bigpetr]

I think that easiest way to make T shape is to make vertical and horizontal part separate and glue it together. The joint will be hidden by garboard strake.

[KrisWood]

@yogi, I don't really understand what you're trying to communicate. Can you provide pictures of the process?

 

@bigpetr, the problem with this method is that the Oseberg keel is curves in all three dimensions. I'd have to bend the top layer to get it into place. This means knowing ahead of time how the material will deform while bending. I could certainly flatten the surfaces in Rhino but there's no guarantee the wood will deform the same way. I haven't been able to find a single photo of this method being used with a curved keel on MSW though I've found examples of it being done for keels with a flat profile.

 

 

The problem with my current method of using vertically sliced layers 1/32" thick, is that it's incredibly fragile. On my last attempt I got three layers built up when the joint between the keel and sternpost snapped while simply aligning it with my jig to check the fit. It turns out that layered overlapping butt joints are still butt joints, and are no stronger than the thinnest layer between them. I'll post pics shortly.

 

At the moment I'm leaning toward going back to basics and doing it the old fashioned way. My plan would be to cut the horizontal part of the T the same way a rabbet is cut, then plane down the | vertical section to the correct thickness. I have an idea for a simple handmade tool to get the correct angles and depth, too. I'll practice on one of my failed keels and post pics today.

[KrisWood]

Ok no photos of my own project today. I totally butchered my practice keel by the time I got the hang of cutting rabbets so there's nothing photo worthy.

 

I have no idea how anyone else cuts them. My tool idea only works if the angle is consistent. My keel is a continuous curve in three dimensions so the angle changes over the entirety of the keel. My idea was to sandwich an x-acto blade between two pieces of wood parallel to the keel, which would only work if the angle was the same along the entire length of the keel. It's a non-starter.

 

So, how the hell would you cut rabbets along a curved keel? How do you know if you're cutting at the right depth and angle? I don't think I could manage this step even if I had a mill with my current skill level. 😣

[KrisWood]

The next few posts will be links to MSW build logs with similar keels.

 

First up, @bolin's medieval longship:

 

This one uses the same method @bigpetr described, but the keel is straight along the entire length.

 

[KrisWood]

Gokstad by @Liberto

 

 

Liberto used a mill with a more modern style keel that only curves in two dimensions with a rabbet instead of a T. This is what gave me the idea of starting out with just a rabbet and then sanding or planing down the portion below the rabbet to make the vertical part the correct width.

 

This only works because Liberto's keel is a consistent width. The Oseberg keel tapers narrower as it moves away from the midship frame, then widens briefly before reaching the stems, then narrows again as it moves up the stems.

[bolin]

5 hours ago, KrisWood said:

The next few posts will be links to MSW build logs with similar keels.

 

First up, @bolin's medieval longship:

This one uses the same method @bigpetr described, but the keel is straight along the entire length.

 

Actually the keel of my longship is ever so slightly bent upwards towards the ends. I selected the method of making the T keel from two pieces to be able to accommodate this. 
I steamed the pieces before I bent them to shape over the build mold. After that they where glued. Beveling the keel so that the garboard plank would lay flat was done using chisels. The keel also narrows towards the end so that the shape goes fro T midships, through “Y” to “I” towards the stem and stern.

 

In my other current build of a Sloop from Roslagen I worked from a solid straight piece of Lime wood. But that keel is straight.

Edited February 6, 2021 by bolin

[KrisWood]

@bolin, how do you get the two parts of the keel aligned and flush so there are no gaps? My model is going to be floating some day so I'm also concerned that the two parts might come apart in water or may not be water tight. Do you think this method would be a problem for a floating model?

[KrisWood]

I picked up my blueprints today! They're perfect! Exactly at scale, and each page has a different set of parts perfectly printed. I got some tracing paper and some carbon paper so I can transfer the parts easily to wood. 

 

Meanwhile, I think I may have a best of both worlds compromise solution to my keel problem.

 

I've got several lengths of 1/4" poplar that are wide enough for even the curviest parts of the keel and stems. The widest cross section of the keel is just a hair under 1/4" at 1:25 scale.

 

My print layers are modeled at 1/32" thickness, which make for layers so thin they snap just assembling the parts.

 

If I replace the inner 8/32" layers with a single 1/4" layer I'll end up with a stronger keel. I'll just have to figure out how to cut a scarf.

 

As for the T, I can use the remaining outer layers to build up the "wings" of the T.

 

Does that sound like it should work?

[bolin]

8 hours ago, KrisWood said:

@bolin, how do you get the two parts of the keel aligned and flush so there are no gaps? My model is going to be floating some day so I'm also concerned that the two parts might come apart in water or may not be water tight. Do you think this method would be a problem for a floating model?

I actually had to scrap the first keel as it got misaligned. I did not use any mor fancy method than Eyeball 1.0 for checking the alignment, you just need to pay attention to what you are doing.

 

I did consider using a couple of tree nails to reinforce the joint of the halves. However, it felt unnecessary when the glue had set so I skipped that. I’m using aliphatic resin as glue. It may not be water resistant, but it will not dissolve immediately in water either. There are other PVC glues for outdoor use that might be better, but if you really are going to sail I guess that epoxy is a better option. However if you are going to sail you would need to coat the hull to make it water proof, and then the keel joint should no longer be exposed.

[KrisWood]

I've decided to go with the two part T method and have drawn up the parts to be printed. I'll make sawdust tomorrow after work.

 

Meanwhile my German is too rusty to make sense of this site. Can anyone help me find how to order a copy of this magazine?

 

https://www.arbeitskreis-historischer-schiffbau.de/logbuch/logbuch-archiv/2000-2009/lg-2004-1/

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Hi Kris,

I am a member of the AK. I think I can help you. Do you search the article of Otto Groning?

[KrisWood]

@AnobiumPunctatum, yes, I'm trying to find the article that goes with the photos of the Oseberg model on the site, in hopes that there may be more photos or written descriptions of the processes used in building the model.

[KrisWood]

So... I accidentally guessed that I'm getting a CNC machine for my birthday in May, (I told my fiancee I want to buy one and she admitted that she's already buying me one so that I wouldn't buy it before then).

 

I'm now rethinking my plans for this project. If I update my plans so that they're "printable" on a CNC machine, I can shape and cut out my parts on there instead of by hand!

 

The question is, has anyone here built a ship model using parts shaped or cut by CNC before? What considerations should I take into account while designing my parts so that they CAN be cut/shaped on 3 axes? Can anyone share with me a CAD file of parts designed for this purpose so I can see what the final product should look like and imitate it?

[KrisWood]

Note to self so I can find it later, a museum scan of the deck plan as reconstructed/displayed.